The argument that more people dying under Obama makes Trump not as bad doesn’t make sense

[KingCesar]

Honest question - couldn't this also have something to do with the fact that Obama served 8 terms in office and Trump has only served 2 so far? Or are we comparing Obama's first two terms in office with Trump's first two?

 

[dj-method-x]

I got ran out of the barbershop a few weeks ago because I dared to say,

"Eh, Trump hasn't been as bad as I thought he'd be...what has Trump even done to black people?"

And negroes were all like, "hE's mAde ThE raCists moAr bOLd!"

Which goes back to the OP -- racists were just as "bold" under Obama as evident by how often they were killing us and getting away with it -- that hasn't gotten worse under Trump (and you could make the argument that the situation has actually improved...for whatever reason).

I need you to venture into this thread:
List of Obama-era civil rights initiatives that the Trump Administration has rolled back

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

I got ran out of the barbershop a few weeks ago because I dared to say,

"Eh, Trump hasn't been as bad as I thought he'd be...what has Trump even done to black people?"

And negroes were all like, "hE's mAde ThE raCists moAr bOLd!"

Which goes back to the OP -- racists were just as "bold" under Obama as evident by how often they were killing us and getting away with it -- that hasn't gotten worse under Trump (and you could make the argument that the situation has actually improved...for whatever reason).

Dude.

They're NOT getting away with it now.

Amd thats what you would expect if things didn't change under Obama.

Reforms came into focus during the latter half of Obama's second term.

Now you're living under those reforms.

Ask yourself: If things changed, when did they change, and why.

Thats the effed up thing. Obama literally instituted a period of change and you don't even notice it

 

[Raw Lyrics]

Obama doesn't write or pass laws. That was the job of congress, which was republican at the time.

I said proposed, not pass.

The President can propose a bill, and even send Congress a Presidential message urging its enactment into law, but he cannot introduce it. The President usually sends draft legislation to Congress with a letter or other explanatory material discussing his reasons for submitting the legislation.


Stage 1: The Bill is Drafted

 

[Booker T Garvey]

A US president is always going to defend law enforcement.

The average President is NOT going to do to law enforcement reform that Obama did.

Thats the difference and the context.

so you're saying he HAD to sign that bill? and he had to sign it right then and there?

I refuse to believe that nobody told him that this was a month after freddie gray and just a year after tamir rice and mike brown

Obama just didn't give a damn.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

so you're saying he HAD to sign that bill? and he had to sign it right then and there?

I refuse to believe that nobody told him that this was a month after freddie gray and just a year after tamir rice and mike brown

Obama just didn't give a damn.

When would it have been ok?

You'd use this argument if it was 6 months later or even a year later.

The fact is that no president is NOT going to sign a bill protecting cops.

 

[George's Dilemma]

Tariq repeats that shyt every podcast.

Ahhhhh, that's why I never heard the argument. I don't follow the guy. Tariq makes good points at times, but muffled within those points is a lot of speculation and nonsense. Did he or anyone else provide statistical data to back up that statement?

 

[Booker T Garvey]

When would it have been ok?

You'd use this argument if it was 6 months later or even a year later.

The fact is that no president is NOT going to sign a bill protecting cops.

Answering questions with questions, dodging topics that paint dems in a bad light, protecting your leaders with trash free PR work

You’re the embodiment of why people are looking at democrats sideways right now

Go on and get that last word in:

 

[dj-method-x]

I said proposed, not pass.

The President can propose a bill, and even send Congress a Presidential message urging its enactment into law, but he cannot introduce it. The President usually sends draft legislation to Congress with a letter or other explanatory material discussing his reasons for submitting the legislation.


Stage 1: The Bill is Drafted

Show me the bills Obama sent to the republican congress that vowed to obstruct everything he did.

What he DID do however is propose a change to the federal hate crime law that they wanted to use to try Mike Brown's killer federally but felt it would be a lost cause since the standard of proof for hate crimes is ridiculously high and they knew they couldn't win. Here's Eric Holder discussing the change that is needed.

Holder's parting shot: It's too hard to bring civil rights cases

Attorney General Eric Holder plans to push, during his final weeks in office, a new standard of proof for civil-rights offenses, saying in an exit interview with POLITICO that such a change would make the federal government “a better backstop” against discrimination in cases like Ferguson and Trayvon Martin.

In a lengthy discussion ranging from his own exposure to the civil rights movement of the ’60s to today’s controversies surrounding the shootings of Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown, Holder also acknowledged that he felt some of his own struggles with Republicans in Congress during his six years in office were driven partly by race.

“There have been times when I thought that’s at least a piece of it,” Holder said, adding that “I think that the primary motivator has probably been political in nature … [but] you can’t let it deflect you from … your eyes on the prize.”

Holder told POLITICO that between now and his departure, probably in early March when the Senate is expected to confirm Loretta Lynch as his successor, he will call for a lower standard of proof for civil rights crimes. Such a change would make it easier for the federal government to bring charges in the case of a future Ferguson or Trayvon Martin.

“I think some serious consideration needs to be given to the standard of proof that has to be met before federal involvement is appropriate, and that’s something that I am going to be talking about before I leave office,” Holder, 64, said.

The attorney general’s comments appeared to be aimed partly at preparing the country for the possibility that no federal charges would be brought in the death of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo., last summer. Holder said the inquiry would be completed when he left office, expected around the second week of March.

The Justice Department announced Tuesday that the Martin investigation had been closed, with “insufficient evidence to pursue federal criminal civil rights charges” against George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch coordinator who shot the unarmed black teenager to death back in 2012.

Asked if the bar for federal involvement in the civil rights offenses is too high for federal prosecutors to make cases in shootings like those of Martin and Brown, Holder suggested it was.

“I think that if we adjust those standards, we can make the federal government a better backstop — make us more a part of the process in an appropriate way to reassure the American people that decisions are made by people who are really disinterested,” he said. “I think that if we make those adjustments, we will have that capacity.”

Lawyers in the Justice Department are looking into various possible reforms of civil rights law. Depending on their determination, it’s possible that Holder will simply argue about the need for a lower standard of proof rather than propose a specific legislative remedy. Possible changes include toughening hate-crimes laws, which were under consideration in the Martin case, and establishing a broader standard for what constitutes a “deprivation of rights under color of law,” the provision that could apply to the police shooting in Ferguson.

Nonetheless, Holder suggested that young African-Americans who are frustrated about the lack of federal prosecution in the Martin case should take heart in the overall record of the Justice Department under his leadership.

“We have done independent, thorough investigations in all of the matters that we have examined, and we have brought record numbers of cases against police departments around this country,” he said. “I don’t think anybody would be able to look at this Justice Department over the last six years and say that we’ve been anything other than aggressive in trying to root out inappropriate police conduct while, at the same time, trying to establish — or reestablish — bonds of trust between communities of color and people in law enforcement.”

Throughout much his tenure, Holder has been a frequent target of criticism by Republicans in Congress, leading to some pointed confrontations. He was voted in contempt of Congress by House Republicans in 2012, and has sometimes felt disrespected during Capitol Hill appearances. He refused to dismiss the notion that some of the hostility was related to his race, but acknowledged that “it’s hard to say — you know, hard to look into people’s minds, you know, their hearts.”

But when he was asked what book he would recommend to a young person coming to Washington, like his 32-year-old aide Kevin Lewis, who started at the White House at age 26, Holder made a revealing choice: “The Autobiography of Malcolm X.”

—Writing a letter to Trayvon Martin’s parents: “[O]ne of the things it’s certainly going to talk about is my admiration for the way in which they have conducted themselves. The loss of a child is not something that we are biologically engineered to handle, and the dignity with which they have carried themselves — the determination that has been generated in them to make something positive out of the tragedy that they have had to endure — has created in me a great deal of admiration for them.”

—Considering returning to his former law firm of Covington & Burling, where he was a litigation partner in Washington. He plans to remain involved in President Barack Obama’s My Brother’s Keeper, a mentoring and youth-empowerment program that Holder has said might be the president’s greatest legacy.

—Hoping to work with a university or think tank about setting up an Eric Holder Institute for Race and Justice. Such an organization could serve as a repository for his papers, and as a platform for him to continue his efforts on post-Ferguson issues – building trust between police and communities of color.

—Planning to do some binge TV-watching: “I have to catch up on ‘House of Cards,’ … ‘Homeland,’ a lot of movies that I’ve not had a chance to see. … I’ll undoubtedly watch ‘The Godfather’ for the 50th time. That’s my favorite all-time movie. I haven’t seen that for a while.”

Holder had only praise for Obama, the man who appointed him, disputing the claims of some African-American leaders that the first black president hasn’t really delivered for the black community: “You know, very often, empty barrels make the most noise. And I think there are any number of measures by which you can say that this presidency has been successful in a whole variety of ways, and especially when it comes to people of color.”

Asked if America will have another black president, Holder said: “Oh, sure. I think so. I think America is in a fundamentally different place than it was when I was growing up and where the thought of an African-American president would be thought of as almost absurd . . . We have an African-American president. This country is ready for a woman to be president. This country is ready for somebody of Hispanic origin, Asian origin.”

 

[dj-method-x]

so you're saying he HAD to sign that bill? and he had to sign it right then and there?

I refuse to believe that nobody told him that this was a month after freddie gray and just a year after tamir rice and mike brown

Obama just didn't give a damn.

Imagine a president not signing a bill that simply alerts police when a police officer is show. Come on fam, have some sense.

 

[Raw Lyrics]

Show me the bills Obama sent to the republican congress that vowed to obstruct everything he did.

What he DID do however is propose a change to the federal hate crime law that they wanted to use to try Mike Brown's killer federally but felt it would be a lost cause since the standard of proof for hate crimes is ridiculously high and they knew they couldn't win. Here's Eric Holder discussing the change that is needed.

Holder's parting shot: It's too hard to bring civil rights cases

Attorney General Eric Holder plans to push, during his final weeks in office, a new standard of proof for civil-rights offenses, saying in an exit interview with POLITICO that such a change would make the federal government “a better backstop” against discrimination in cases like Ferguson and Trayvon Martin.

In a lengthy discussion ranging from his own exposure to the civil rights movement of the ’60s to today’s controversies surrounding the shootings of Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown, Holder also acknowledged that he felt some of his own struggles with Republicans in Congress during his six years in office were driven partly by race.

“There have been times when I thought that’s at least a piece of it,” Holder said, adding that “I think that the primary motivator has probably been political in nature … [but] you can’t let it deflect you from … your eyes on the prize.”

Holder told POLITICO that between now and his departure, probably in early March when the Senate is expected to confirm Loretta Lynch as his successor, he will call for a lower standard of proof for civil rights crimes. Such a change would make it easier for the federal government to bring charges in the case of a future Ferguson or Trayvon Martin.

“I think some serious consideration needs to be given to the standard of proof that has to be met before federal involvement is appropriate, and that’s something that I am going to be talking about before I leave office,” Holder, 64, said.

The attorney general’s comments appeared to be aimed partly at preparing the country for the possibility that no federal charges would be brought in the death of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo., last summer. Holder said the inquiry would be completed when he left office, expected around the second week of March.

The Justice Department announced Tuesday that the Martin investigation had been closed, with “insufficient evidence to pursue federal criminal civil rights charges” against George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch coordinator who shot the unarmed black teenager to death back in 2012.

Asked if the bar for federal involvement in the civil rights offenses is too high for federal prosecutors to make cases in shootings like those of Martin and Brown, Holder suggested it was.

“I think that if we adjust those standards, we can make the federal government a better backstop — make us more a part of the process in an appropriate way to reassure the American people that decisions are made by people who are really disinterested,” he said. “I think that if we make those adjustments, we will have that capacity.”

Lawyers in the Justice Department are looking into various possible reforms of civil rights law. Depending on their determination, it’s possible that Holder will simply argue about the need for a lower standard of proof rather than propose a specific legislative remedy. Possible changes include toughening hate-crimes laws, which were under consideration in the Martin case, and establishing a broader standard for what constitutes a “deprivation of rights under color of law,” the provision that could apply to the police shooting in Ferguson.

Nonetheless, Holder suggested that young African-Americans who are frustrated about the lack of federal prosecution in the Martin case should take heart in the overall record of the Justice Department under his leadership.

“We have done independent, thorough investigations in all of the matters that we have examined, and we have brought record numbers of cases against police departments around this country,” he said. “I don’t think anybody would be able to look at this Justice Department over the last six years and say that we’ve been anything other than aggressive in trying to root out inappropriate police conduct while, at the same time, trying to establish — or reestablish — bonds of trust between communities of color and people in law enforcement.”

Throughout much his tenure, Holder has been a frequent target of criticism by Republicans in Congress, leading to some pointed confrontations. He was voted in contempt of Congress by House Republicans in 2012, and has sometimes felt disrespected during Capitol Hill appearances. He refused to dismiss the notion that some of the hostility was related to his race, but acknowledged that “it’s hard to say — you know, hard to look into people’s minds, you know, their hearts.”

But when he was asked what book he would recommend to a young person coming to Washington, like his 32-year-old aide Kevin Lewis, who started at the White House at age 26, Holder made a revealing choice: “The Autobiography of Malcolm X.”

—Writing a letter to Trayvon Martin’s parents: “[O]ne of the things it’s certainly going to talk about is my admiration for the way in which they have conducted themselves. The loss of a child is not something that we are biologically engineered to handle, and the dignity with which they have carried themselves — the determination that has been generated in them to make something positive out of the tragedy that they have had to endure — has created in me a great deal of admiration for them.”

—Considering returning to his former law firm of Covington & Burling, where he was a litigation partner in Washington. He plans to remain involved in President Barack Obama’s My Brother’s Keeper, a mentoring and youth-empowerment program that Holder has said might be the president’s greatest legacy.

—Hoping to work with a university or think tank about setting up an Eric Holder Institute for Race and Justice. Such an organization could serve as a repository for his papers, and as a platform for him to continue his efforts on post-Ferguson issues – building trust between police and communities of color.

—Planning to do some binge TV-watching: “I have to catch up on ‘House of Cards,’ … ‘Homeland,’ a lot of movies that I’ve not had a chance to see. … I’ll undoubtedly watch ‘The Godfather’ for the 50th time. That’s my favorite all-time movie. I haven’t seen that for a while.”

Holder had only praise for Obama, the man who appointed him, disputing the claims of some African-American leaders that the first black president hasn’t really delivered for the black community: “You know, very often, empty barrels make the most noise. And I think there are any number of measures by which you can say that this presidency has been successful in a whole variety of ways, and especially when it comes to people of color.”

Asked if America will have another black president, Holder said: “Oh, sure. I think so. I think America is in a fundamentally different place than it was when I was growing up and where the thought of an African-American president would be thought of as almost absurd . . . We have an African-American president. This country is ready for a woman to be president. This country is ready for somebody of Hispanic origin, Asian origin.”

So you're saying Obama did absolutely everything in his power to hold police officers accountable for criminal shootings by Police Officers? That's what you're saying?


Where's the links to Obama himself discussing it? Please post.


I don't have to show you anything, you quoting me. I said what I said, I stand by it.

 

[dj-method-x]

Ahhhhh, that's why I never heard the argument. I don't follow the guy. Tariq makes good points at times, but muffled within those points is a lot of speculation and nonsense. Did he or anyone else provide statistical data to back up that statement?

Tariq doesn't provide statistical data to back up anything lol. He just cherry picks events to suit his narrative.

 

[dj-method-x]

So you're saying Obama did absolutely everything in his power to hold police officers accountable for criminal shootings by Police Officers? That's what you're saying?


Where's the links to Obama himself discussing it? Please post.

What could Obama do in his power to hold police officers accountable? Was he supposed to just throw them in jail? That is not within the powers of the president. Below you'll find what he directed his justice department to do. Keep in mind these investigations resulted in several reform agreements between the police departments in question (Ferguson, Chicago, Baltimore, etc), and that the Trump administration quickly nixed those reform agreements when they could.

The civil rights legacy of Eric Holder

Local police forces faced investigations and reforms under Holder

Police officers watch over demonstrators in Ferguson, Missouri. (Scott Olson / Getty Images News)
Scott Olson/Getty Images
Following the August 9 shooting of Michael Brown and the protests in Ferguson, Missouri, that followed, Holder's Justice Department announced an investigation of the entire Ferguson Police Department and unveiled initiatives to help local governments in St. Louis County confront their unequal treatment of minorities.

"The Department of Justice is working across the nation to ensure that the criminal justice system is fair, constitutional, and free of bias," Holder said in a statement. "Ferguson and St. Louis County are not the first places that we have become engaged to ensure fair and equitable policing and they will not be the last. The Department of Justice will continue to work tirelessly to ensure that the Constitution has meaning for all communities."

HOLDER HAS OVERSEEN MORE THAN TWICE AS MANY CIVIL RIGHTS INVESTIGATIONS ON POLICE DEPARTMENTS THAN HIS PREDECESSOR

Holder's involvement in Ferguson wasn't unique for the attorney general. Holder has overseen more than twice as many civil rights investigations on police departments than his predecessor did in a similar time period. He even took steps against New York City's stop-and-frisk policy, which gained national notoriety for its disproportionate effect on black and Latino residents.

The civil rights investigations have clear goals: to systemically address the disparities in police treatment faced by white and non-white civilians and send a signal that such disparities are unacceptable in the eyes of the Justice Department.

For Holder, his pursuit may reflect his own experiences with law enforcement. "I was a young college student driving from New York to Washington, stopped on a highway and told to open the trunk of my car, because the police officer told me he wanted to search it for weapons," he told ABC News. "I remember as I got back in the car and continued on my journey how humiliated I felt, how angry I got."

Through his position, Holder was given the opportunity to address that humiliation he and other minority Americans face every day, and he often called on the nation to follow him.

"Will we again turn a blind eye to the hard truths that Ferguson exposed, burying these tough realities until another tragedy arises to set them off like a powder keg?" Holder asked in a recent speech at New York University. "Or will we finally accept this mandate for open and honest dialogue, reach for new and innovative solutions, and rise to the historic challenge — and the critical opportunity — now right before us?"

 

[I Really Mean It]

Only a fool believes a government that hasn't paid reparations to the descendants of slaves will do a damn thing about murderous race soldiers masquerading as police.

 

[Raw Lyrics]

What could Obama do in his power to hold police officers accountable? Was he supposed to just throw them in jail? That is not within the powers of the president. Below you'll find what he directed his justice department to do. Keep in mind these investigations resulted in several reform agreements between the police departments in question (Ferguson, Chicago, Baltimore, etc), and that the Trump administration quickly nixed those reform agreements when they could.

The civil rights legacy of Eric Holder

Local police forces faced investigations and reforms under Holder

Police officers watch over demonstrators in Ferguson, Missouri. (Scott Olson / Getty Images News)
Scott Olson/Getty Images
Following the August 9 shooting of Michael Brown and the protests in Ferguson, Missouri, that followed, Holder's Justice Department announced an investigation of the entire Ferguson Police Department and unveiled initiatives to help local governments in St. Louis County confront their unequal treatment of minorities.

"The Department of Justice is working across the nation to ensure that the criminal justice system is fair, constitutional, and free of bias," Holder said in a statement. "Ferguson and St. Louis County are not the first places that we have become engaged to ensure fair and equitable policing and they will not be the last. The Department of Justice will continue to work tirelessly to ensure that the Constitution has meaning for all communities."

HOLDER HAS OVERSEEN MORE THAN TWICE AS MANY CIVIL RIGHTS INVESTIGATIONS ON POLICE DEPARTMENTS THAN HIS PREDECESSOR

Holder's involvement in Ferguson wasn't unique for the attorney general. Holder has overseen more than twice as many civil rights investigations on police departments than his predecessor did in a similar time period. He even took steps against New York City's stop-and-frisk policy, which gained national notoriety for its disproportionate effect on black and Latino residents.

The civil rights investigations have clear goals: to systemically address the disparities in police treatment faced by white and non-white civilians and send a signal that such disparities are unacceptable in the eyes of the Justice Department.

For Holder, his pursuit may reflect his own experiences with law enforcement. "I was a young college student driving from New York to Washington, stopped on a highway and told to open the trunk of my car, because the police officer told me he wanted to search it for weapons," he told ABC News. "I remember as I got back in the car and continued on my journey how humiliated I felt, how angry I got."

Through his position, Holder was given the opportunity to address that humiliation he and other minority Americans face every day, and he often called on the nation to follow him.

"Will we again turn a blind eye to the hard truths that Ferguson exposed, burying these tough realities until another tragedy arises to set them off like a powder keg?" Holder asked in a recent speech at New York University. "Or will we finally accept this mandate for open and honest dialogue, reach for new and innovative solutions, and rise to the historic challenge — and the critical opportunity — now right before us?"

What did Obama (not Holder) recommend CONGRESS do, on the record? Don't give me the "it would have been stricken down anyway" excuse!! Because historically, there have been several legal proposals to congress by Presidents, that were initially struck down prior to finally gaining traction.


In politics sometimes you have to put yourself out there to take that L, so that future successors can try to build upon what you set out to do.

Show me links of Obama talking about his proposals regarding police brutality to LEGISLATORS, not administrative band-aids via DOJ.