The DBZ fighting games are deeper than most conventional fighters (SF, MK, SC)

[StarClout]

No..ur not understanding that there is a certain set of "traditions" fighting games have to keep to be evo worthy

Budokai 3 is not a traditional fighter..and doesnt play like one..and the game wasnt promoted to be in that scene...For example SMash is also not a traditional fighter but because its community pushed soo hard for it to be one its one now

MK9 was also pushed by NR the MK competitive scene to be an evo fighter due to its "competetive" mission statement for that game and saw it through the SF/Marvel communities trashing it heavy when it first started out and the infighting inside the MK community

The depth of budokai 3 cant be determined simply due to whether or not its at evo..thats silly....

1. Its not an arcade game
2.Its not a traditional fighter
3.Its a game based on a highly popular anime so most of the purchases were from dbz fanboys
4.Those who play budokai 3 with the full metagame in mind is a very small minority

Fixed that for you breh

you nikkas man

If it was up to Boon/NRS, they would've listened to the casual players like they've always done with MK and dudes like Kung Lao would still be OP and silly nuances like that

NOBODY in the FGC wanted MK9 at Evo when it first came out. NOBODY. People were saying shyt like WB/NRS paid for MK9 to be at Evo and it hadn't proved itself like other games at Evo did cause it was at Evo almost immediately after it came out. Prior to all this, the MK brand was soiled in the FGC (when was the last time you saw Deadly Alliance/Deception/Armageddon at Evo if ever? :sas1 yeah I thought so ) but the MK Community fought hard for MK9 and showed that MK9 could hang with the big boys (SF, Marvel, etc). NRS didn't do that, the MK community did just like the Smash community did with the SSB series.

I knew a few cats from the MK scene and was on sites like TYM around that time which were spearheading the MK9 movement and working with NRS concerning the game. Some of the top players like Tom Brady worked REAL close with NRS to help ensure the games tourney success.

It was a lot of behind the scenes stuff but the MK community fought HARD to get MK9 where it is today. But you wouldn't know about all that and prob saw MK9 at Evo and was like thanks to the MK community's hard work with MK9, MKX will be more warmly recieved in the tourney scene upon release compared to MK9 upon its release

What I'm trying to say is that if Budokai 3 had a community putting it's blood, sweat, and tears into getting it seen at the highest level possible like the MK and Smash communities did. it would've caught fire in the FGC and others. people would've heard about the game and checked it out. Even the most niche titles get burn in the FGC (e.g. JoJos, Fist of the North Star, Persona 4 Arena, Skullgirls, etc)

If more people saw it played at High Level it would've gotten more people to attemp to play with metagame in mind (think Diago/JWong/Alex Valle in street fighter, Perfect Legend/REO/Tom Brady in MK, etc). Damn near every casual who played SF4 wanted to play like Diago/JWong and the others.

JoJo's was a VERY niche series but had a nice competitive scene/community backing it. Only cats who may have heard of it was either dudes who watched the anime/read the manga. Someway somehow it caught on with the FGC and is still adored in FGC to this day.

And the DBZ series does have arcade releases in Japan and isn't a traditional fighting game

 

[StarClout]

That's a lie, UMK3 has had a competitive scene for years

THANK YOU!!!

Let these nikkas know

 

[blackslash]

Fixed that for you breh

you nikkas man

If it was up to Boon/NRS, they would've listened to the casual players like they've always done with MK and dudes like Kung Lao would still be OP and silly nuances like that

NOBODY in the FGC wanted MK9 at Evo when it first came out. NOBODY. People were saying shyt like WB/NRS paid for MK9 to be at Evo and it hadn't proved itself like other games at Evo did cause it was at Evo almost immediately after it came out. Prior to all this, the MK brand was soiled in the FGC (when was the last time you saw Deadly Alliance/Deception/Armageddon at Evo if ever? :sas1 yeah I thought so ) but the MK Community fought hard for MK9 and showed that MK9 could hang with the big boys (SF, Marvel, etc). NRS didn't do that, the MK community did just like the Smash community did with the SSB series.

I knew a few cats from the MK scene and was on sites like TYM around that time which were spearheading the MK9 movement and working with NRS concerning the game. Some of the top players like Tom Brady worked REAL close with NRS to help ensure the games tourney success.

It was a lot of behind the scenes stuff but the MK community fought HARD to get MK9 where it is today. But you wouldn't know about all that and prob saw MK9 at Evo and was like thanks to the MK community's hard work with MK9, MKX will be more warmly recieved in the tourney scene upon release compared to MK9 upon its release

What I'm trying to say is that if Budokai 3 had a community putting it's blood, sweat, and tears into getting it seen at the highest level possible like the MK and Smash communities did. it would've caught fire in the FGC and others. people would've heard about the game and checked it out. Even the most niche titles get burn in the FGC (e.g. JoJos, Fist of the North Star, Persona 4 Arena, Skullgirls, etc)

If more people saw it played at High Level it would've gotten more people to attemp to play with metagame in mind (think Diago/JWong/Alex Valle in street fighter, Perfect Legend/REO/Tom Brady in MK, etc). Damn near every casual who played SF4 wanted to play like Diago/JWong and the others.

JoJo's was a VERY niche series but had a nice competitive scene/community backing it. Only cats who may have heard of it was either dudes who watched the anime/read the manga. Someway somehow it caught on with the FGC and is still adored in FGC to this day.

And the DBZ series does have arcade releases in Japan and isn't a traditional fighting game

No Budokai is not an arcade game breh

And ur basically co signing what I said..the games u mentioned are either games that followed the traditional fighting game formula or had huge strong communities pushing to get accepted

Budokai does not have that due to the 4 points I mentioned in my previous post

So its foolish to say Budokai 3 doesnt have depth because its not at evo..

 

[Detroit Wave]

game set and match

-10 for op making this bullshyt :paperumad:

EDIT:
The following error occurred:
Sorry Detroit Wave, an error had occurred. You have reached the daily maximum quota of 10 reputations set by admin.

somebody hold me down till tomorrow

 

[5n0man]

My problem with the dbz fighting games is that the character balancing is terrible. There were a lot of junk characters town in for fan service.

And I always felt like in budakai 3, goku and vegeta became unbeatable

 

[StarClout]

No Budokai is not an arcade game breh

And ur basically co signing what I said..the games u mentioned are either games that followed the traditional fighting game formula or had huge strong communities pushing to get accepted

Budokai does not have that due to the 4 points I mentioned in my previous post

So its foolish to say Budokai 3 doesnt have depth because its not at evo..

did I say Budokai had arcade releases? I said the the DBZ franchise in general had fighting games that saw arcade releases in Japan

Even if the game didn't catch on it would've had it's own lil scene and in-community tourneys like MK did in the Deadly Alliance/Deception/Armagedon days.

It would've got burn anyway. I remember reading back in the day that Budokai 1 was aight and 2 had fall off a bit. With 3 having former SF2 devs I'm sure we'd have heard about it having those devs thus prompting people to check it out. Being a niche game/appealing to a certain audience has nothing to do w it. Look at Skullgirls, that game DEF appealed to a certain audience but the game was able to stand on its own legs with its depth and the fact that it did GGPO online correct after Iron Galaxy botched 3rd Strike Online Edition (how you botch a 3S port I'll never know but IG did). And I was able to put some people on to SG after I got them past their initial impression of the game and showed it to them. If SG can overcome it Budokai can.

Budokai series got a collection rerelease a few years back for PS3/360. If it's piff like you say I could snag a copy for myself and see if it holds up

using some street fighter knockoff as an example doesnt really counter the argument, assuming that the two systems are similar to one other then the embracement of one should follow the embracement of the other
Secondly, the dbz titles do require precise timing and knowledge of stuns and cancels to execute any chainable set of string of attacks; so if having a "steep" learning curve" is the main point of entry as you mentioned, then your case is beyond irrelavant as most of the casual players including myself arent even aware of the meta mechanics the engine actually is capable of.. Which goes back to the point of the topic stating why the series is looked over in the first place.

Play JoJo's on the GGPO online emulator and tell me it's a Street Fighter knockoff

They were deved by the same team but the mechanics and what not were COMPLETELY different. You mention stuns and cancels for Budokai but JoJo's takes in account the "Stands/Stand Cancels/Stand Crashes" as well as Valle CCs from SF Alpha 2 and stuff like that.

You also just admitted you were a casual player so now that I know what I'm dealing with here I think it's safe to say this argument is over

 

[blackslash]

did I say Budokai had arcade releases? I said the the DBZ franchise in general had fighting games that saw arcade releases in Japan

Even if the game didn't catch on it would've had it's own lil scene and in-community tourneys like MK did in the Deadly Alliance/Deception/Armagedon days.

It would've got burn anyway. I remember reading back in the day that Budokai 1 was aight and 2 had fall off a bit. With 3 having former SF2 devs I'm sure we'd have heard about it having those devs thus prompting people to check it out. Being a niche game/appealing to a certain audience has nothing to do w it. Look at Skullgirls, that game DEF appealed to a certain audience but the game was able to stand on its own legs with its depth and the fact that it did GGPO online correct after Iron Galaxy botched 3rd Strike Online Edition (how you botch a 3S port I'll never know but IG did). And I was able to put some people on to SG after I got them past their initial impression of the game and showed it to them. If SG can overcome it Budokai can.

Budokai series got a collection rerelease a few years back for PS3/360. If it's piff like you say I could snag a copy for myself and see if it holds up


Play JoJo's on the GGPO omnirange emulator and tell me it's a Street Fighter knockoff

They were deved by the same team but the mechanics and what not were COMPLETELY different. You mention stuns and cancels for Budokai but JoJo's takes in account the "Stands/Stand Cancels/Stand Crashes" as well as Valle CCs from SF Alpha 2 and stuff like that.

You also just admitted you were a casual player so know that I know what I'm dealing with here I think it's safe to say this argument is over

But SG was promoted to be bought by the FGC..SHt the game was created by a veteran who was heavily involved in the FGC

so that doesnt work as a comparison but know what

U should cop it..ull know what im talm bout

Budokai 1 and 2 were bad but 3 was amazing and is really the prime DBZ game

 

[StarClout]

But SG was promoted to be bought by the FGC..SHt the game was created by a veteran who was heavily involved in the FGC

so that doesnt work as a comparison but know what

U should cop it..ull know what im talm bout

Budokai 1 and 2 were bad but 3 was amazing and is really the prime DBZ game

Most of the people I put on to SG didn't know that. They saw it as one of those creepy all female cast games. Once I was able to get them past that impression, they loved the hell out of that game.

If players could've gotten others past it being a DBZ game maybe people could've seen what you trying to tell us

OP simply could've made a Budokai appreciation thread instead of trashing other fighting games. But then again OP is a casual and doesn't know any better

 

[Rice N Beans]

No.

 

[Kaypain]

That Street Fighter shyt is for coach potatoes and nerds.



DBZ is for them real nikkas

 

[JuvenileHell]

fukk outta here, the gameplay in DBZ is trash.

In terms of fighting game mechanics/concepts King Of Fighters is the GOAT. Street Fighter laid the foundation and KOF took shyt to another level.

 

[WhodatWhoadi]

budokai 3 and burst limit are dope....but Im still hitting this thread with the 1 star.

 

[Neil Tyson]

That Street Fighter shyt is for coach potatoes and nerds.



DBZ is for them real nikkas

DBZ isn't for nerds? DBZ is for nikkas who can't let go of their childhoods, those games sucked since Budokai 3.

 

[ZeroAnnihilated]

"
The DBZ fighting games are deeper than most conventional fighters (SF, MK, SC)"

I know these posts are out of date by now... but I feel compelled to agree. Even if they are not proven to hold more depth (which I believe in some cases, they do), I still believe they at least measure up to the rest. I read through these posts and it seemed the argument ended once the TC was regarded as a "casual".

I am not a casual... in fact, I don't really play Budokai 3 that often, which in accordance to many DBZ players is one of the most in-depth DBZ fighters there is. As a top Tenkaichi player who actually knows the in-depth mechanics of Tenkaichi, I can say in full confidence that this statement holds merit. I understand that most of you don't see the Tenkaichi series as requiring a lot of skill... but how much do you really know about Tenkaichi? It's been several years now. Most fight-game players who are used to the traditional combat games think in traditional terms of game-play when passing judgment on a new fighting game. It is easy to dismiss a player for seeming "casual", but you must understand how frustrating it is to explain the depth of a non-traditional game to traditional style players. The SSB community, as you seem to agree, had to fight tooth and nail to prove their worthiness and they at least had a solid following to do so. The same cannot be said about the DBZ gaming community... not because the depth does not exist, but simply because there aren't nearly as many players that matched the required dedication.

The DBZ fighting game series is a very unique one. While many fighting games, traditional or no, have stuck to the same general construct (because it worked), the DBZ game's have changed combat styles several times. Not to mention, a new game was presented to the fans every year since the 80's. When the fanbase is trying to keep up with every new game that comes out, it is difficult for a competitive scene to establish itself, especially if the combat style keeps changing to such extremes.

Another factor to consider is what we as the gaming community consider to be evolution of gaming, and what is a step backward. This, of course, is subjective to opinion as a die hard traditional gamer may believe any change that differs than the traditional construct is a step backward while someone who plays Budokai 3 or the Tenkaichi series may see the traditional game as extremely limited. The argument of whether or not tournaments are held at Evo/MLG has always baffled me. I've almost come to the point of expecting key arguments that hold no worthy support such as this. It really is amazing. I mean, they'll accept Golf as a sport but won't accept a DBZ game as a true fighting game due to results based on bandwagon fanbase.

Anyway, if anyone is interested in a deeper discussion, let me know. At the very least, you'll have a better inside understanding of what's going on in the advanced side of DBZ games.

 

[Crakface]

They need to hire the art director of the special moves for dB and put him on the final fantasy summon magic special move team,