The Democrats Who Want To Overturn Roe vs. Wade

[mc_brew]

i'm pro-life but i think we should attack the abortion problem from a different angle.... instead of outlawing it, i wish society would look at the underlying root causes of unwanted pregnancies and work to fix those issues...

 

[Pressure]

i'm pro-life but i think we should attack the abortion problem from a different angle.... instead of outlawing it, i wish society would look at the underlying root causes of unwanted pregnancies and work to fix those issues...

Seems to be framing it as a specific issue.

It's their body, they can do what they want with it.

 

[Starman]

It's their body,

Then why is the DNA different?

 

[NoMayo15]

This is a very complex issue & there are too many hypocrites on both sides.

It's not all that complex if you're coming from the perspective of maximizing well-being, and mininizing harm.

Personally I don't think it's morally acceptable to take away a person's bodily autonomy so another person can live. We can't force a person to, say, give up a kidney in order to save the life of another. And while we might feel a certain way about a mother not willing to give up an organ so her child could live, for example, it still should be her choice whether or not she does so, and I'm not comfortable allowing the state to demand such a sacrifice. So that being said, while I agree a fetus has the right to live, it does not and should not have the right to use someone else's body, against their will, to do so.

And that's not even mentioning the harmful societial effects of having hundreds of thousands if not millions of unwanted children introduced into the equation.

 

[Prince.Skeletor]

It's not all that complex if you're coming from the perspective of maximizing well-being, and mininizing harm.

Ok so you are saying "Hey, it's not that complex as long as you think like your opposition"?

Personally I don't think it's morally acceptable to take away a person's bodily autonomy so another person can live. We can't force a person to , say, give up a kidney in order to save the life of another.

Are you a progressive? I don't know im seriously just asking.
Like are you strong advocate for forced redistribution of wealth with an increase in social programs?

And while we might feel a certain way about a mother not willing to give up an organ so her child could live, for example, it still should be her choice whether or not she does so, and I'm not comfortable allowing the state to demand such a sacrifice. So that being said, while I agree a fetus has the right to live, it does not and should not have the right to use someone else's body, against their will, to do so.

You are describing the baby as a symbiote like venom lol
This is not only about the right to live but also living in a society where it's a brush off the shoulder common practice to have unprotected sex, get a baby an kill it like all you did was a shrug.

And that's not even mentioning the harmful societial effects of having hundreds of thousands if not millions of unwanted children introduced into the equation.

But let more refugees in?


This is where there is hypocrisy on the left.
We all know there is on the right, protect the unborn but mass murder families and bomb weddings, be against gun backround checks etc...
But the left too as I have indicated above

The argument that we shouldn't tell a woman what to do with her body, what if it's a woman saying it to another woman?

 

[AZBeauty]

There are few people who genuinely care about unborn babies. These women sound foolish as do most be who base their vote on one issue only. If white people were not afraid being a minority, this wouldn't even be an issue.

 

[Berniewood Hogan]

There are few people who genuinely care about unborn babies. These women sound foolish as do most be who base their vote on one issue only. If white people were not afraid being a minority, this wouldn't even be an issue.

but TLR told me 75% of aborted babies are black

 

[choc_cardigan]

I'm really starting to think the powers that be are really trying to push this country to civil war

 

[AZBeauty]

but TLR told me 75% of aborted babies are black

Tariq told them that.

 

[NoMayo15]

Ok so you are saying "Hey, it's not that complex as long as you think like your opposition"?

Not really. I don't know his position, so I can't tell him to think like his opposition. I'm only pointing a generally good foundation when solving moral dilemmas.

Are you a progressive? I don't know im seriously just asking.
Like are you strong advocate for forced redistribution of wealth with an increase in social programs?

Depends on what you mean. I lean left but don't agree with every single issue with everyone who adopts that label. Forced redistribution of wealth? You mean taxation? Yes, I believe there are certain public goods that the state is best at providing, and certain cracks in society we don't want people to fall through. Don't see how this is relevant to the previous points I made though.

You are describing the baby as a symbiote like venom lol
This is not only about the right to live but also living in a society where it's a brush off the shoulder common practice to have unprotected sex, get a baby an kill it like all you did was a shrug.

I never paid much attention to Spiderman so I can't really say if I agree with that categorization ... But if you mean what I think you mean, then yes, a fetus relies purely on the woman for nutrients, oxygen, etc. That's how it works. Sorry if that's an offensive description to you, but we shouldn't base these decisions solely on emotion.

Also I disagree with your implication that the majority who are having these procedures do so on a whim, and without afterthought. And I certainly wouldn't agree that a, say ten week old zygote, is the same thing as a newborn baby.

But let more refugees in?


This is where there is hypocrisy on the left.
We all know there is on the right, protect the unborn but mass murder families and bomb weddings, be against gun backround checks etc...
But the left too as I have indicated above

The argument that we shouldn't tell a woman what to do with her body, what if it's a woman saying it to another woman?

Well we can talk about the ramifications of rescuing refugees but this is just irrelevant to this conversation.

No adult should tell or make another adult do something with their bodies without their consent. What's complicated about that?

 

[Prince.Skeletor]

Don't see how this is relevant to the previous points I made though.

Force to give kidney, force to give money. Force is force.

Now I am not equating being forced to give someone one of your kidneys to being forced to contribute to things like healthcare, but still if you understand that being forced to give someone your kidney is very wrong then the thought that being forced to contribute to healthcare, welfare, foreign aid, etc should not be an alienating concept to you.

Also I disagree with your implication that the majority who are having these procedures do so on a whim, and without afterthought.

They are not done on a whim with a certain age demographics, but the whims definitely increases the lower in age you go.

Well we can talk about the ramifications of rescuing refugees but this is just irrelevant to this conversation.

Your argument was about population.

No adult should tell or make another adult do something with their bodies without their consent. What's complicated about that?

What's complicated about that is that there is another life involved.

I am not trying to be anti-abortion here, just saying there are valid concerns on both sides.
And I said it's complex and you said it's not, so I responded to that.

 

[NoMayo15]

Force to give kidney, force to give money. Force is force.

Now I am not equating being forced to give someone one of your kidneys to being forced to contribute to things like healthcare, but still if you understand that being forced to give someone your kidney is very wrong then the thought that being forced to contribute to healthcare, welfare, foreign aid, etc should not be an alienating concept to you.

Lol equating the two is precisely what you're trying to do. Being forced to give up a portion of something you can acquire more of, and being forced to give up something you have very few of and is key to your health and well-being are not at all analogous. Bodily autonomy and fiat currency aren't a good comparison.

They are not done on a whim with a certain age demographics, but the whims definitely increases the lower in age you go.

That's probably true for anything but that doesn't address my statement that it doesn't represent most. Do you have any data to suggest otherwise?

Your argument was about population.

No, it wasn't. It was about societial and human well-being. Refugees at least can contribute to the workforce as another source of cheap labor (whether you see that as good or bad). Forcing 600k women to bring those pregnancies to term will have detrimental psychological, physiological and economic effects. A pregnancy is still akin to a major surgery, and having women out of the workforce, likely depresssed, is a toxic combination. Plus, there will be a drastic increase in demand for childcare and foster care programs. It would be one thing if we didn't already have millions of children already in this system, but to add on another half a million, best case, is unsustainable.

What's complicated about that is that there is another life involved.

I am not trying to be anti-abortion here, just saying there are valid concerns on both sides.
And I said it's complex and you said it's not, so I responded to that.

But you haven't made a case other than ... But it's a baby lol. So what? That's no reason to make it impossible for families and doctors to choose to have this procedure

 

[mc_brew]

Seems to be framing it as a specific issue.

It's their body, they can do what they want with it.

....i don't think there are many women that look forward to having an abortion.... it seems it would be beneficial to both men and women to avoid unwanted pregnancies.... outlawing abortion isn't going to address this issue, understanding how a woman gets pregnant that doesn't want to be pregnant is a far better route to take... what is that, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure...? i get that this appears to be framing the issue as another way to control women, but i'd rather frame it as another way for humanity to control itself, men and women alike....

 

[Pressure]

The person seeds argument has always been relevant to most abortion arguments these days more so than a future like ours argument. So I'll post an overview here.


Philosophical Disquisitions: Abortion and the People Seeds Thought Experiment

 

[yseJ]

Wait some staunch dems on here are pro-life and cac mamba is pro-choice?

am I in the twilight zone?

I don't know, I'm not religious at all so I never can see a woman NOT doing what she wants to her body. It's like one area when I'm completely hands the fukk off