The Kevin Durant Conundrum...

[Creflo ½ Dollar]

Yeah, because of the addition of KD. CP3’s regressed to the point where he’s barely a top 20 PG and Ayton is still the same player that he was then.

And the criticism of that team heading into the ‘21-‘22 season was that they only made it to the Finals because the Warriors had no Klay that season, and the rest of the teams they faced until the Finals were crippled with injuries.

This Suns team is on par with, but not better than Boston or the Bucks—and there’s no superteam talks to go along with those teams.

No I meant 20/21 suns team would have been on par with the Kyrieless Nets if KD stayed. Superstar and good role players. CP3 just a great leader, when that trade happened people was calling him washed. Pure talent wise I think the Nets team would have been better. But when u not a leader like KD that would be an underwhelming team.

 

[DillaTUDE]

No I meant 20/21 suns team would have been on par with the Kyrieless Nets if KD stayed. Superstar and good role players. CP3 just a great leader, when that trade happened people was calling him washed. Pure talent wise I think the Nets team would have been better. But when u not a leader like KD that would be an underwhelming team.

There’s nobody on that team as good as Ayton or CP3. Kyrie-less Nets is on par with the team that LeBron couldn’t even make the playoffs with in 2019

 

[Primetime]

There are certainly some interesting questions and honest discussions to have regarding KD (as with all ATGs). But we also shouldn't kid ourselves with what will happen, if Phoenix wins the title this year.

The same thing that happened in 2017: he will win Finals MVP, he will be recognized as the best player and difference maker on that team by that team's coach, will be lauded as no worse than top 3 in the entire league by the basketball community at large, and only LeBron will be seen as greater than him in this era.

This was literally the case and narrative for KD from 2017 up until last year (2022), which was only derailed bc of his 1st round embarrassment and GSW winning a title. As much of a love/hate relationship as the media has with him, they will jump right back on his bandwagon if PHX wins this year.

 

[BigMoneyGrip]

You saw KD win two Finals MVPs.

What more do you want?

He wouldn’t have had anything of it wasn’t for the goat squad

 

[Regular_P]

I agree with some of this thread but not all of it. First off, ain't no way Westbrook is top-50. His career post-KD drops him a lot, especially when you look at those two years with Paul George. He's been brutal in the playoffs since 2016, no two ways around it. OKC's first round losses with Paul George in 2018 and 2019 fall squarely on Russ, in my book. If he was really that guy, no reason they lose to a Utah team led by a rookie Donovan Mitchell in 2018 and we all know how bad Dame torched him in 2019.

As far as KD, he's a bus driver when you give him the fastest vehicle and he doesn't have to do any maintenance. But, if he needs to do an oil change or fix a flat, it's not gonna end well. I agree he isn't a foxhole guy. When the going gets tough, he's gonna let it burn instead of grabbing a fire extinguisher. His lack of leadership is unlike any other player of his caliber.

Does anyone think Kobe would have let Draymond talk to him like that, especially out on the court? Kyrie wasn't doing all those antics when he was with LeBron in Cleveland. Would MJ have let Westbrook be as reckless as he was during his OKC tenure? He's very similar to Kawhi in that, if all he's asked to do is ball, you'll be fine. But, if you ask him to set the culture of a place, there's gonna be issues.

In Phoenix, they already have two culture setters in Paul and Booker. It should be fine and it they win it all, it won't surprise me.

I give him a pass on the injury stuff because the majority of it is after his Achilles tear. I won't downplay the severity of that. Prior to the tear, he'd played most of his team's games besides 2014-15.

It doesn't get brought up often, but besides his Golden State years, he's been a little erratic in the postseason.

 

[murksiderock]

That team is on par with the ‘18-‘19 Lakers with Ball, BI, Kuzma, etc… that LeBron missed out on the playoffs with. And he was given a pass to seek out another star in AD, despite being the same age that KD is now.

KD’s nearing the end of his prime. There’s no point gutting it out with star-less rosters that can’t compete with the likes of Boston, Philly and Milwaukee, when LeBron was given a pass at the same age to not only trade for AD but to also pursue Kawhi Leonard in free agency after he failed to even make the playoffs with a similar cast to the one KD had post-Kyrie trade

Comparing KD to Bron is a false equivalency. First of all we've seen Bron take rosters weaker than these Nets to The Finals twice. Bron never demanded a trade, much less twice in the same year...

The comparison ends at demanding roster upgrades, which every great player does, by the way. Bron's never tapped out on his squad in the middle of the season, and the chaotic front office or poor coaching in Brooklyn, we know LeBron has dealt with that...

He's never punted on his team in the middle of the season. He's never demanded a trade, and always fulfilled his contractual obligations professionally...

This Nets team, the core of which includes Claxton and Harris and made the playoffs before Durant's arrival, is not the same caliber as the Lakers team that Bron walked into that missed the playoffs 5 years running. Just stop it...

Again it's unproven this Nets team couldn't compete with Milwaukee and Boston. Unless what you're really alluding to is Durant couldn't elevate ti the level Giannis and Tatum can, which would be a revelation. Because this Nets team with Durant, has shooting, so they have spacing. They have both perimeter and front court defense. They have a second scorer in Dinwiddie. They have depth. The only glaring weakness would be lack of a true point guard---->but that weakness was here with Kyrie too and ostensibly you have Simmons who can justify that role with Dinwiddie as a secondary ball handler...

So no, I don't know that he couldn't take this squad over flawed Milwaukee and flawed Boston. This just sounds like you don't believe Durant can transcend and elevate them over the stars the other two have...

 

[murksiderock]

There are certainly some interesting questions and honest discussions to have regarding KD (as with all ATGs).

Great post, and all I'm trying to do is have an honest discussion on Durant's career. Lesser and greater players alike have been subjected to a more critical lens, and I'm not sure I've ever seen a superstar of this magnitude quite as protected as KD. By "protected" I mean, very little discussion time is spent on his actual flaws (can get erratic with his ball handling, can devolve into turnover stretches, doesn't elevate others he just goes and hoops great, can be a plus defender provided he has other strong defenders around him but can't anchor an elite defense or be the primary defender on a subpar defensive squad, etc), minimal critique of his poor leadership and decision making...

Like I said we can start with his new teammate Paul and keep going for guys who are much more under the microscope of critique than Durant is. He's a very protected star for a guy with a questionable track record...

 

[Osmosis]

That team is on par with the ‘18-‘19 Lakers with Ball, BI, Kuzma, etc… that LeBron missed out on the playoffs with. And he was given a pass to seek out another star in AD, despite being the same age that KD is now.

KD’s nearing the end of his prime. There’s no point gutting it out with star-less rosters that can’t compete with the likes of Boston, Philly and Milwaukee, when LeBron was given a pass at the same age to not only trade for AD but to also pursue Kawhi Leonard in free agency after he failed to even make the playoffs with a similar cast to the one KD had post-Kyrie trade

That Lakers team was 20-14 when Bron got injured and fell under .500 by the time he returned after the all-star break. He still tried to make a playoff push despite the team collapsing in his absence.

KD quit midseason when the team held it down enough in his absence to maintain HCA. KD already got his pass when he signed with Kyrie, coerced the team to trade for Harden, forced them to hire and fire Nash. That team imploded under KD’s watch and then he requested a trade like he had nothing to do with it you think he should get a pass now?

 

[murksiderock]

That Lakers team was 20-14 when Bron got injured and fell under .500 when he returned after the all-star break. He still tried to make a playoff push despite the team collapsing in his absence.

KD quit midseason when the team held it down enough in his absence to maintain HCA. KD already got his pass he signed with Kyrie, coerced the team to hire traded Harden, forced them to hire and fire Nash. That team imploded under KD’s watch and then he requested a trade like he had nothing to do with it you think he should get a pass now?

All of this. Cats can't talk about "passes" when this nikka is afforded break after break...

 

[WTFisWallace?]

Top 10-15 all time?

Do nikkas even have him above Kawhi?

 

[Dwight Howard]

Luka isn't nearly as proven as Durant, his game is part of the reason he couldn't win with those guys. Durant doesn't play like Luka...

Dinwiddie, DFS, Claxton, Curry, Harris, O'Neal, Warren, you're telling me this is a roster that ONCE DURANT CAME BACK couldn't compete at a championship level?

Are you trolling? No player in the league is winning with that

 

[Gotright]

Top 10-15 all time?

Do nikkas even have him above Kawhi?

Negged

 

[Dwight Howard]

Comparing KD to Bron is a false equivalency. First of all we've seen Bron take rosters weaker than these Nets to The Finals twice. Bron never demanded a trade, much less twice in the same year...

The comparison ends at demanding roster upgrades, which every great player does, by the way. Bron's never tapped out on his squad in the middle of the season, and the chaotic front office or poor coaching in Brooklyn, we know LeBron has dealt with that...

He's never punted on his team in the middle of the season. He's never demanded a trade, and always fulfilled his contractual obligations professionally...

This Nets team, the core of which includes Claxton and Harris and made the playoffs before Durant's arrival, is not the same caliber as the Lakers team that Bron walked into that missed the playoffs 5 years running. Just stop it...

Again it's unproven this Nets team couldn't compete with Milwaukee and Boston. Unless what you're really alluding to is Durant couldn't elevate ti the level Giannis and Tatum can, which would be a revelation. Because this Nets team with Durant, has shooting, so they have spacing. They have both perimeter and front court defense. They have a second scorer in Dinwiddie. They have depth. The only glaring weakness would be lack of a true point guard---->but that weakness was here with Kyrie too and ostensibly you have Simmons who can justify that role with Dinwiddie as a secondary ball handler...

So no, I don't know that he couldn't take this squad over flawed Milwaukee and flawed Boston. This just sounds like you don't believe Durant can transcend and elevate them over the stars the other two have...

 

[Consigliere]

His chapter isn’t closed yet and the 2 finals MVPs are going to keep him in top 15 talks for while.

I don’t know that he owes us anything or has anything to prove. I like to talk shyt about the guy but that game where he lost by a toe on the line was the best basketball performance I’ve ever seen.

To the point of the thread.

Winning a ring for CP3 would be a huge boost.

Flaming out in epic CP3 fashion would be a knock.

 

[Hathaway]

You saw KD win two Finals MVPs.

What more do you want?