'The Last of Us' - Season 2 Thread (NO GAME SPOILERS!) | HBO | Neil Druckmann stepping away from creative involvement

[Deafheaven]

Wow, it's a fictional TV show. I didn't know that. Thanks for telling me


Anyway, certain things, even in a fictional world, can still be less believable. It's called verisimilitude. Also, that statement was meant to be more of a minor throwaway.

you don't think little bella boxing is believable?

 

[King Static X]

you don't think little bella boxing is believable?

The show with Ellie:

 

[kingofnyc]

The little girl is the vaccine, she clearly has the antibodies that can then be redesigned in a lab. If I'm there, she's dying quicker than a sacrificial lamb, why do you think they keep her bite a secret? More like fukk Joel for being selfish. He could have saved millions (probably only thousands now).

Ellie was pissed at Joel for not allowing her to make the decision on her own. Some people ask "well she's awake now, she knows everything, why not go back and sacrifice?" oh that's right, Joel bytch ass killed the only known scientist in a 5 state radius. #TeamAbby.

do you really understand how ridiculous your post is?

1. Sacrificing Ellie wasn’t 100% guaranteed actually it’s extremely less likely they would’ve came up with a vaccine cure from her why because it’s been stated or known that they had numerous individuals who was immune just like Ellie and all of their sacrifices failed

2. And to play devils advocate let’s say they did come up with a vaccine/cure from Ellie. the FF are a militia - which means they do acts of bad faith and at war with other groups … so this notion about them saving millions of people is preposterous

3. and it doesn’t matter what Ellie thinks she is 13 years old and has no ability to make a life decision. Even if she wanted to sacrifice herself, it would be a moot point because Marlene , FF & abby‘s father didn’t even ask her for permission. after they knocked out, Joel unconscious at the subway and brought them back to their headquarters, they immediately seduced Ellie in prep to operate= kill her.

 

[Jaguar93]

Bruhs are still debating TLOU 1&2 thanks Neil

 

[Uchiha God]

Wow, it's a fictional TV show. I didn't know that. Thanks for telling me


Anyway, certain things, even in a fictional world, can still be less believable. It's called verisimilitude. Also, that statement was meant to be more of a minor throwaway.

Wasn’t telling you it’s a fictional tv show. Simply said that projecting realism into surreal settings hardly ever works out - contextually - if you can suspend your disbelief to walking sentient growling 88 pounds balls of fungus - I don’t see how a small woman that’s been in multiple life/death combat situations potentially killing some crimestoppers - is any more offensive

sewage pipe tendril communicating fungus undead army girl with combat experience vs produce Pete

 

[Uchiha God]

Ellie = vietcong
WLF = USA

 

[ChatGPT-5]

do you really understand how ridiculous your post is?

1. Sacrificing Ellie wasn’t 100% guaranteed actually it’s extremely less likely they would’ve came up with a vaccine cure from her why because it’s been stated or known that they had numerous individuals who was immune just like Ellie and all of their sacrifices failed

2. And to play devils advocate let’s say they did come up with a vaccine/cure from Ellie. the FF are a militia - which means they do acts of bad faith and at war with other groups … so this notion about them saving millions of people is preposterous

3. and it doesn’t matter what Ellie thinks she is 13 years old and has no ability to make a life decision. Even if she wanted to sacrifice herself, it would be a moot point because Marlene , FF & abby‘s father didn’t even ask her for permission. after they knocked out, Joel unconscious at the subway and brought them back to their headquarters, they immediately seduced Ellie in prep to operate= kill her.

1. "Sacrificing Ellie wasn’t 100% guaranteed to work."

While it's true that success wasn’t guaranteed, Ellie’s case was different from the others.

• No one else was confirmed canonically to have the same specific immunity — a fungal mutation in her brain that produced a chemical messenger that "tricked" the Cordyceps infection.
• Ellie’s immunity wasn’t just resistance; she was infected, but the infection didn’t spread — that's much rarer than simple exposure immunity or natural resistance.
• The Fireflies' lead surgeon (Abby's father) — one of the most qualified experts left alive — believed that this was their best and only shot. In a dying world, the chance alone made it worth pursuing.
• Point: In an extinction-level scenario, risking even a low chance for a cure is rational, especially when the alternative is inevitable collapse.
• Also, time was against humanity — this was not a problem they could keep studying forever.

---

2. "The Fireflies are a militia; they wouldn’t save millions anyway."

Yes, the Fireflies were a militant group — but their goal was restoring a normal society, not ruling over it like tyrants.

• Their slogan was "When you're lost in the darkness, look for the light," implying they saw themselves as the ethical opposition to FEDRA's authoritarianism.
• Giving humanity a vaccine/cure would have made them heroes — which politically and practically would have benefited them much more than hoarding it.
• Even if they had selfish motivations, it doesn’t change the fact that millions could have been saved if a cure worked — because diseases don't obey politics.
• Point: Whether or not the Fireflies were good or bad guys, curing humanity was a tangible way to win legitimacy and real power — so their incentives still favored sharing it.

---

3. "It doesn’t matter what Ellie thinks because she’s 13 and wasn’t asked."

Legally and morally, yes — a 13-year-old can’t consent.
However:

• Throughout the story, Ellie constantly demonstrates agency beyond her years. She chose to travel with Joel, chose to fight, and chose to protect him.
• Marlene, who loved Ellie like family, said she "knew Ellie would want to do this" — suggesting it was not a random assumption, but something Ellie herself had expressed.
• Point: If Ellie had been awake and informed, it’s very possible she would have volunteered — which makes Joel’s choice selfish on her behalf.
• Also, Joel wasn’t just protecting Ellie’s rights — he was making the decision for himself because he couldn’t face losing another daughter figure, whether or not it was the greater good.

 

[King Static X]

Wasn’t telling you it’s a fictional tv show. Simply said that projecting realism into surreal settings hardly ever works out - contextually - if you can suspend your disbelief to walking sentient growling 88 pounds balls of fungus - I don’t see how a small woman that’s been in multiple life/death combat situations potentially killing some crimestoppers - is any more offensive

sewage pipe tendril communicating fungus undead army girl with combat experience vs produce Pete

I see what you're saying, and I agree in most cases. However, Bella Ramsey (and Isabela Merced too) being so small constantly takes me out of things.

The show itself kind of does an own goal on this topic. In the first episode, Jesse tells Ellie that he told the big dude she was play fighting with to pop his shoulder or else he would've knocked Ellie out (which is true to real life). That guy is way bigger than Ellie, and if he wasn't holding back, he would've given her a concussion (maybe even shattered some bones in her face).

So based on the show's own logic, Ellie & Dina taking on the WLF (even if they are only targeting a small faction) isn't really believable... but whatever. It is what it is. I will still watch and generally enjoy the show

 

[ChatGPT-5]

She was “potentially” the vaccine or a stepping stone leading to one. There was no guarantee anything would have come out of their research, even though she was “like nothing they’d ever seen before”.

I understand both the fireflies and Joel’s reasoning. They’re human, and we don’t know what people are going to do under pressure, until they’re actually under pressure. I’m glad they left it up the gamer/viewer to decide if he’s a hero or villian. Joel was a hero to himself and a bunch of the people controlling him, while an idiot and villian to others.

BINGO. well said.

I think to myself, if I were the scientist, would I have gone through with it, sorry, but the little girl had something special and we have to try.

At the same time, would I sacrifice my daughter? I think I would chicken out and flee. Would I sacrifice a little white girl I just so happen to bond with and reminds me of my daughter. Sometimes kids gotta get sacrificed, she's getting the Michael Jordan treatment.

 

[threattonature]

And I bet those people want Abby killed. Can't say it's white incels now when the general populace are Team Joel and Ellie. I keep telling folks the story don't make sense and anybody talking about killing Joel don't know what they talking about. Joel didn't deserve to die. He tried to save a kid he developed kinship for.

They could have waited for Ellie to wake up. They didn't.
The doctor could have simply let Joel take Ellie and let the fire flies go after him. He didn't.

Abby killed a man who was just trying to save his own.

You could play that woulda coulda game either way. Or Joel could've just beat the shyt out of the doctor and everybody in the room and take Ellie without killing them.

The whole point of the story is that either side could be the hero or the villain depending on whose eyes you are viewing the story from. For Abby's group they are believing they have a way to cure all of humanity. It's like the utilitarianism theory of ethics where the greater good determines if something is ethical or not. In this case killing Ellie saves hundreds of thousands if not millions of people if they can develop a cure. It saves society. And instead Joel kills the doctor to save one girl.

So in Abby's eyes her father was trying to save the world and Joel killed a man for doing his job. So of course she's going to want to avenge him.

 

[threattonature]

I see what you're saying, and I agree in most cases. However, Bella Ramsey (and Isabela Merced too) being so small constantly takes me out of things.

The show itself kind of does an own goal on this topic. In the first episode, Jesse tells Ellie that he told the big dude she was play fighting with to pop his shoulder or else he would've knocked Ellie out (which is true to real life). That guy is way bigger than Ellie, and if he wasn't holding back, he would've given her a concussion (maybe even shattered some bones in her face).

So based on the show's own logic, Ellie & Dina taking on the WLF (even if they are only targeting a small faction) isn't really believable... but whatever. It is what it is. I will still watch and generally enjoy the show

It ain't like she gone be walking around fighting dudes hand to hand. The majority of the game itself is about using stealth and finding ways to take guys out so her height or physical stature doesn't mean much. If anything the early scenes of the guys fighting her should be her lesson learned of why she has to be stealthy when confronting enemies because physically she can't compete. Now Abby on the other hand I'm curious how that plays out as her physical strength is a big part of her character.

 

[klientel]

It ain't like she gone be walking around fighting dudes hand to hand. The majority of the game itself is about using stealth and finding ways to take guys out so her height or physical stature doesn't mean much. If anything the early scenes of the guys fighting her should be her lesson learned of why she has to be stealthy when confronting enemies because physically she can't compete. Now Abby on the other hand I'm curious how that plays out as her physical strength is a big part of her character.

They are going to have to basically make her John Wick

Spoiler

She's supposed to be the top Scar killer, and one of the best fighters in WLF....possibly still alive

 

[Don Mack]

It ain't like she gone be walking around fighting dudes hand to hand. The majority of the game itself is about using stealth and finding ways to take guys out so her height or physical stature doesn't mean much. If anything the early scenes of the guys fighting her should be her lesson learned of why she has to be stealthy when confronting enemies because physically she can't compete. Now Abby on the other hand I'm curious how that plays out as her physical strength is a big part of her character.

They will have to rewrite Abby as a stealth character also or have her constantly surrounded by enforcers to do the highly physical killing.

 

[Deafheaven]

They are going to have to basically make her John Wick

Spoiler

She's supposed to be the top Scar killed, and one of the best fighters in WLF....possibly still alive

Spoiler

IDK how they are gonna make this work. Ellie is damn near solid snake in the game, and abby is Ann wolfe. Also tommy being a hoe now is just a complete departure from the story. Its going to fukk the whole plot up as they were following his murder n destruction in the game.

also employing a time skip after joels death is... a choice.

 

[King Static X]

It ain't like she gone be walking around fighting dudes hand to hand. The majority of the game itself is about using stealth and finding ways to take guys out so her height or physical stature doesn't mean much. If anything the early scenes of the guys fighting her should be her lesson learned of why she has to be stealthy when confronting enemies because physically she can't compete. Now Abby on the other hand I'm curious how that plays out as her physical strength is a big part of her character.

So we're going to get Ellie Shinobi Wick