The Miami Heat are eliminated from playoff contention.

Mantis Toboggan M.D.

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It must be nice to have a team with 7-8 "starter caliber" guys. :ehh:

I remember MIami when they only had 3.

In the Lebron era, guys like Joel Anthony, Dexter Pittman, Udonis Haslem, Mike Miller, and a slew of guys ready to retire (Ray Allen, Rashard Lewis, and Shane Battier, and the corpse of Mike Bibby) were starting playoff games. Heck, most of those guys started FINAL games. Bosh missed a huge stretch of the playoffs once, DWade was missing more games nearly every year than he did this year. Yet they went to the Finals every single year. Who was that on?
Wade played 75 games in 2010-11. He played 49 of 66 in 2011-12, and played 69 in 2012-13 while everyone say the last few to just rest up once the playoffs were on the way. Last year was the only time he missed over 20. Shane was a great fit the first two seasons here. Allen was a great fit too. The centers were ass no doubt though.
 

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Only playing 49 games in a 66-game season is worse than playing 62 out of 82. And it wasn't just the centers - Heat PGs were straight awful too. Corpse-like Mike Bibby to Mario Chalmers to ready-to-retire Ray Allen? And when Bosh went down, Miami had literally no one to step up in the front court.


These are playoff games for a team on its way to a championship:


Starters MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS +/-
LeBron James 40:06 10 22 .455 1 4 .250 1 3 .333 1 6 7 3 2 0 4 1 22 -9
Mario Chalmers 38:26 10 15 .667 1 1 1.000 4 4 1.000 3 3 6 5 0 1 0 3 25 -14
Dwyane Wade 36:51 2 13 .154 0 2 .000 1 2 .500 1 4 5 1 1 2 5 3 5 -25
Shane Battier 23:25 0 7 .000 0 6 .000 0 0 0 3 3 0 2 2 1 2 0 -10
Dexter Pittman 3:29 0 2 .000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 -5

Reserves MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS +/-
Joel Anthony 26:49 2 2 1.000 0 0 6 6 1.000 0 1 1 0 0 0 1 2 10 -13
Mike Miller 17:10 2 3 .667 2 3 .667 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 3 6 +10
Ronny Turiaf 16:38 2 3 .667 0 0 1 3 .333 4 4 8 0 0 1 1 2 5 -3
James Jones 14:55 1 6 .167 0 3 .000 0 0 1 1 2 0 0 0 0 0 2 -15
Norris Cole 9:34 0 1 .000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 -5
Udonis Haslem 7:18 0 2 .000 0 0 0 0 1 2 3 0 0 0 2 2 0 -6
Terrel Harris 2:43 0 1 .000 0 1 .000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 +1
Juwan Howard 2:36 0 1 .000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 -1
Team Totals 240 29 78 .372 4 20 .200 13 18 .722 11 25 36 9 5 6 14 21 75



Starters MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS +/-
LeBron James 43:54 14 27 .519 0 0 12 16 .750 6 12 18 9 2 2 5 1 40 +4
Dwyane Wade 40:48 13 23 .565 2 2 1.000 2 6 .333 1 8 9 6 1 2 0 1 30 +5
Mario Chalmers 33:07 3 9 .333 2 5 .400 0 0 0 3 3 3 2 1 5 2 8 +17
Shane Battier 30:25 1 7 .143 1 3 .333 0 0 4 0 4 0 0 1 1 3 3 -2
Ronny Turiaf 13:45 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 2 4 0 0

Reserves MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS +/-
Udonis Haslem 25:05 5 6 .833 0 0 4 4 1.000 1 3 4 0 0 0 0 3 14 +15
Joel Anthony 21:53 1 2 .500 0 0 2 2 1.000 2 2 4 0 0 3 1 4 4 -1
Mike Miller 20:26 1 3 .333 0 1 .000 0 0 0 3 3 2 1 0 1 3 2 +1
Norris Cole 8:19 0 1 .000 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 2 0 0 3 0 0
James Jones 2:18 0 2 .000 0 1 .000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 +1
Team Totals 240 38 80 .475 5 12 .417 20 28 .714 14 33 47 20 8 9 15 24 101
 
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Biscayne

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It must be nice to have a team with 7-8 "starter caliber" guys. :ehh:

I remember Miami when they only had 3. :mjlol:

In the Lebron era, guys like Joel Anthony, Dexter Pittman, Ronny Turiaf, Udonis Haslem, walking dead Mike Miller, and a slew of guys ready to retire (Ray Allen, Rashard Lewis, Shane Battier, and the corpse of Mike Bibby) were starting playoff games. Heck, most of those guys started FINALS games. Bosh missed a huge stretch of the playoffs once, DWade was missing more games nearly every year than he did this year. Yet they went to the Finals every single year. Who was that on?:lolbron:
Nitpicking and hyperbole.

Shane Battier, Ray Allen, Mike Miller > Henry Walker, Justin Hamilton, Shawne Williams. All the afformentioned guys weren't scrubs. They were solid roleplayers who spread the floor, shot lights out, and played defense. So even when Bosh was out during the Indy series, and through 5games of the Celtics series, we still had Battier out there to play the 4, and spread the floor. You're acting like LeBron led a bunch of scrubs to the Finals in the four years he was here. But then again, the "LeBron has to do everything, including winning championships by himself with barely any help, and LeBron is 95% of the team" narrative is a strong narrative that refuses to die. Remember how bad the Cavs were earlier this season? They added solid pieces, and voila. I bet some people are gonna act like that was all LeBrons doing(even with Kyrie going for 50 twice). So what if the Cavs don't win it all this year? Are we gon' start hearing "Kyrie didn't do enough" "Love didn't do his job", and, "LeBron needs more help".

:pachaha::ufdup:
 

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Nitpicking and hyperbole.

Shane Battier, Ray Allen, Mike Miller > Henry Walker, Justin Hamilton, Shawne Williams. All the afformentioned guys weren't scrubs. They were solid roleplayers who spread the floor, shot lights out, and played defense.

* Shane Battier didn't score a single point in the Finals against San Antonio last year. Not one. In 16 playoff games last year, including 6 starts, he only hit 12 shots TOTAL and averaged 2 points/game. During the regular season he averaged 4 ppg on 38% shooting while starting 56 of 73 games. In 22 playoff games the previous year, he only hit 29% of his shots and averaged 4.7 points/game. The year before that, when he started 16 of 23 playoff games, he hit 38% of his shots and averaged 7 points/game.
* Ray Allen hit a few shots, but his defense was atrocious. Every single Spur he was matched up against destroyed him. Allen is a deadly shooter in the right situations, but Boston knew 3 years ago that he shouldn't be starting games for a contender.
* Mike Miller wasn't on the team last year, but the year before that he only averaged 3 ppg while starting 5 of 17 playoff games. And he often wasn't available or had to go to the bench with injury issues - only averaging 47 games/year in 3 years with Miami even though he started some games every year.

Yes, there were times in the last four years where Battier, Allen, and Miller all gave quality contributions. But there were also times when they were too hurt, too old and slow, or had lost their shot too much to be starting games for a championship contender. Hell, the three of them are almost 120 years old combined.

And those three guys aren't even in the top-5 of the worst starters that Miami had to play in playoff games during their Finals runs. That honor goes to Pittman, Turiaf, Anthony, Bibby, and Lewis.


So even when Bosh was out during the Indy series, and through 5games of the Celtics series, we still had Battier out there to play the 4, and spread the floor.

You see the two box scores I put up? Battier shot 1-14 combined in those two games. You want to guess what he shot for the entire series?

And you're conveniently forgetting that Dexter Pittman and Ronnie Turiaf were starting games that series. This is the same Dexter Pittman who was out of the NBA the next season and the same Turiaf who averaged 1.9ppg in 10 minutes/game for the Clippers the next season.


You're acting like LeBron led a bunch of scrubs to the Finals in the four years he was here. But then again, the "LeBron has to do everything, including winning championships by himself with barely any help, and LeBron is 95% of the team" narrative is a strong narrative that refuses to die. Remember how bad the Cavs were earlier this season? They added solid pieces, and voila. I bet some people are gonna act like that was all LeBrons doing(even with Kyrie going for 50 twice). So what if the Cavs don't win it all this year? Are we gon' start hearing "Kyrie didn't do enough" "Love didn't do his job", and, "LeBron needs more help".

Lebron didn't lead a bunch of scrubs to the Finals in the four years he was in Miami. But he did have to carry a lot of players who never should have been starting for a Finals team. Bibby, Anthony, Pittman, Turiaf, Lewis, and Allen/Battier/Miller when they got old/injured were good examples of that. That's a LOT of below-average players to be starting on Finals-destined teams.

And Miami wasn't a bunch of scrubs this year. Their center situation for half the season was better than anything in the last 4 years. At worst they had the same PG they've had the last 3 years (who should be hitting his prime), and at best they had the best point guard they've seen in a decade. Wade averaged just as many missed games over the last 3 years (58 total) as he had this year (20). Deng was an above-average replacement for Lebron who is solid on both ends of the floor. And Bosh was balling this season until he got injured. Birdman/Napier/Walker/Beasley/Granger/McRoberts/Cole weren't all available all season, but they were all available for some of the season and that's a better situation 6-12 than a lot of teams have.

Yet Miami was still sitting with a 24-30 record when Bosh went out, and still had a losing record after acquiring Dragic. They dealt with injuries this year, but they dealt with injuries (Miller, Wade, Bosh) at various times in previous seasons too without the team falling off the cliff.

Even with everything else that went on, if Lebron's on this team, they make the playoffs and are winning some series. You can't doubt that.
 

Jesus Shuttlesworth

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But if Lebron played like Lebron, then he wouldve ended up with another FMVP, not Wade.

Tried to explain that shyt to my cousin before that series. He asked me what if Miami wins and Wade gets MVP. I told him it couldn't happen because if LeBron doesn't play like an MVP then Miami ain't winnin shyt.
 

Biscayne

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* Shane Battier didn't score a single point in the Finals against San Antonio last year. Not one. In 16 playoff games last year, including 6 starts, he only hit 12 shots TOTAL and averaged 2 points/game. During the regular season he averaged 4 ppg on 38% shooting while starting 56 of 73 games. In 22 playoff games the previous year, he only hit 29% of his shots and averaged 4.7 points/game. The year before that, when he started 16 of 23 playoff games, he hit 38% of his shots and averaged 7 points/game.
* Ray Allen hit a few shots, but his defense was atrocious. Every single Spur he was matched up against destroyed him. Allen is a deadly shooter in the right situations, but Boston knew 3 years ago that he shouldn't be starting games for a contender.
* Mike Miller wasn't on the team last year, but the year before that he only averaged 3 ppg while starting 5 of 17 playoff games. And he often wasn't available or had to go to the bench with injury issues - only averaging 47 games/year in 3 years with Miami even though he started some games every year.

Yes, there were times in the last four years where Battier, Allen, and Miller all gave quality contributions. But there were also times when they were too hurt, too old and slow, or had lost their shot too much to be starting games for a championship contender. Hell, the three of them are almost 120 years old combined.

And those three guys aren't even in the top-5 of the worst starters that Miami had to play in playoff games during their Finals runs. That honor goes to Pittman, Turiaf, Anthony, Bibby, and Lewis.




You see the two box scores I put up? Battier shot 1-14 combined in those two games. You want to guess what he shot for the entire series?

And you're conveniently forgetting that Dexter Pittman and Ronnie Turiaf were starting games that series. This is the same Dexter Pittman who was out of the NBA the next season and the same Turiaf who averaged 1.9ppg in 10 minutes/game for the Clippers the next season.




Lebron didn't lead a bunch of scrubs to the Finals in the four years he was in Miami. But he did have to carry a lot of players who never should have been starting for a Finals team. Bibby, Anthony, Pittman, Turiaf, Lewis, and Allen/Battier/Miller when they got old/injured were good examples of that. That's a LOT of below-average players to be starting on Finals-destined teams.

And Miami wasn't a bunch of scrubs this year. Their center situation for half the season was better than anything in the last 4 years. At worst they had the same PG they've had the last 3 years (who should be hitting his prime), and at best they had the best point guard they've seen in a decade. Wade averaged just as many missed games over the last 3 years (58 total) as he had this year (20). Deng was an above-average replacement for Lebron who is solid on both ends of the floor. And Bosh was balling this season until he got injured. Birdman/Napier/Walker/Beasley/Granger/McRoberts/Cole weren't all available all season, but they were all available for some of the season and that's a better situation 6-12 than a lot of teams have.

Yet Miami was still sitting with a 24-30 record when Bosh went out, and still had a losing record after acquiring Dragic. They dealt with injuries this year, but they dealt with injuries (Miller, Wade, Bosh) at various times in previous seasons too without the team falling off the cliff.

Even with everything else that went on, if Lebron's on this team, they make the playoffs and are winning some series. You can't doubt that.

* Shane Battier didn't score a single point in the Finals against San Antonio last year. Not one. In 16 playoff games last year, including 6 starts, he only hit 12 shots TOTAL and averaged 2 points/game. During the regular season he averaged 4 ppg on 38% shooting while starting 56 of 73 games. In 22 playoff games the previous year, he only hit 29% of his shots and averaged 4.7 points/game. The year before that, when he started 16 of 23 playoff games, he hit 38% of his shots and averaged 7 points/game.
* Ray Allen hit a few shots, but his defense was atrocious. Every single Spur he was matched up against destroyed him. Allen is a deadly shooter in the right situations, but Boston knew 3 years ago that he shouldn't be starting games for a contender.
* Mike Miller wasn't on the team last year, but the year before that he only averaged 3 ppg while starting 5 of 17 playoff games. And he often wasn't available or had to go to the bench with injury issues - only averaging 47 games/year in 3 years with Miami even though he started some games every year.

Yes, there were times in the last four years where Battier, Allen, and Miller all gave quality contributions. But there were also times when they were too hurt, too old and slow, or had lost their shot too much to be starting games for a championship contender. Hell, the three of them are almost 120 years old combined.

And those three guys aren't even in the top-5 of the worst starters that Miami had to play in playoff games during their Finals runs. That honor goes to Pittman, Turiaf, Anthony, Bibby, and Lewis.




You see the two box scores I put up? Battier shot 1-14 combined in those two games. You want to guess what he shot for the entire series?

And you're conveniently forgetting that Dexter Pittman and Ronnie Turiaf were starting games that series. This is the same Dexter Pittman who was out of the NBA the next season and the same Turiaf who averaged 1.9ppg in 10 minutes/game for the Clippers the next season.




Lebron didn't lead a bunch of scrubs to the Finals in the four years he was in Miami. But he did have to carry a lot of players who never should have been starting for a Finals team. Bibby, Anthony, Pittman, Turiaf, Lewis, and Allen/Battier/Miller when they got old/injured were good examples of that. That's a LOT of below-average players to be starting on Finals-destined teams.

And Miami wasn't a bunch of scrubs this year. Their center situation for half the season was better than anything in the last 4 years. At worst they had the same PG they've had the last 3 years (who should be hitting his prime), and at best they had the best point guard they've seen in a decade. Wade averaged just as many missed games over the last 3 years (58 total) as he had this year (20). Deng was an above-average replacement for Lebron who is solid on both ends of the floor. And Bosh was balling this season until he got injured. Birdman/Napier/Walker/Beasley/Granger/McRoberts/Cole weren't all available all season, but they were all available for some of the season and that's a better situation 6-12 than a lot of teams have.

Yet Miami was still sitting with a 24-30 record when Bosh went out, and still had a losing record after acquiring Dragic. They dealt with injuries this year, but they dealt with injuries (Miller, Wade, Bosh) at various times in previous seasons too without the team falling off the cliff.

Even with everything else that went on, if Lebron's on this team, they make the playoffs and are winning some series. You can't doubt that.
Yeah, the role players on that 2011 Miami Heat team, were scrubs. But, Wade was still in his prime. Alot of the heavy lifting in 2011 was also done by Wade. There were various times during that season and post season where Wade outplayed LeBron. There will never be another point in LeBrons career where he has a teammate who will out score him for a whole playoff series. Wade did twice during that 2011 Finals run. Wade had 30ppg to LBJ's 28ppg against Boston, then Wade had 27ppg to LeBrons 17ppg in the Finals. Wade could possibly go down in history as the only LBJ teammate who can honestly say they played just as well(maybe even outplayed) LBJ for the duration of an entire post-season. With the way Wade and Bosh were playing in 2011, that Heat team without LBJ, might have still gotten to the Eastern Conference Finals. The previous year, we saw Wade average 33.2 Points Per Game shooting 57% From The Field, 7 Assists Per Game, 1.6 Steals Per Game, 1.6 Blocks Per Game, 5.6 RPG against the the eventual 2010 Eastern Conference Champion Boston Celtics. Miami managed to win a game against that squad, on the back of Wade. 2011 Wade was on one. But even post-2011 Wade did some heavy duty lifting. Wades defense on Harden in the 2012 Finals was solid. LBJ is the greatest player to don a Miami Heat uniform. No doubt. But, at no point during those four years, was he made to bear more than he could carry.


:ufdup:
 
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Biscayne

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Tried to explain that shyt to my cousin before that series. He asked me what if Miami wins and Wade gets MVP. I told him it couldn't happen because if LeBron doesn't play like an MVP then Miami ain't winnin shyt.
But that's false. We saw Wade play a notch better than LBJ against the Celtics during that same playoff run, and Miami beat them in 5. If LBJ averages 22ppg on 46% to Wades 27ppg on 56%, Miami wins the championship. Hell, if LBJ makes 5 shots in that 5min stretch in Gm 2, when Spo decided to keep feeding LBJ to get him going after Miami got up 15points on Dallas behind Wades 36point 11assist game, Miami wins game 2, and goes up 2-0 on Dallas. Hell, if LBJ scores more than 8points in game 4(at least score 15) then Miami goes up 3-1 on Dallas. People act as if LBJ is completely useless if he isn't the leading scorer or filling up the stat sheet. He didn't have to play like the Finals MVP for Miami to win that series. He just had to score a tad bit more efficiently. That's all we asked. He didn't have to completely run the show.

:mindblown:
 
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JYoung24

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All that's nice but he was still a serviceable 2nd option in that series. A second option can do all those things because he's a second option...kinda how D. Wade didnt' score 20 until the Finals a couple years ago and looked like shyt against the Pacers. The man gets the credit and the blame. That's fine as long as you are consistent. All this shifting and twisting and spinning and varying definitions to :cape: for one guy is unnecessary.

No he wasn't bosh was the servicable second option lebron was playing like a third option
 

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Bron had to lose that mavs, that was probably the best thing that happened in his career. That offseason woke him up to some degree and he became a better player because of it. I don't know if they win 2 or 3 if that didn't happen.

Acting like Bron wasn't gonna have the crazy drive regardless of if they won or not. LeBron has never been a complacent player in his life b.
 
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Rigby.

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But that's false. We saw Wade play a notch better than LBJ against the Celtics during that same playoff run, and Miami beat them in 5. If LBJ averages 22ppg on 46% to Wades 27ppg on 56%, Miami wins the championship. Hell, if LBJ makes 5 shots in that 5min stretch in Gm 2, when Spo decided to keep feeding LBJ to get him going after Miami got up 15points on Dallas behind Wades 36point 11assist game, Miami wins game 2, and goes up 2-0 on Dallas. Hell, if LBJ scores more than 8points in game 4(at least score 15) then Miami goes up 3-1 on Dallas. People act as if LBJ is completely useless if he isn't the leading scorer or filling up the stat sheet. He didn't have to play like the Finals MVP for Miami to win that series. He just had to score a tad bit more efficiently. That's all we asked. He didn't have to completely run the show.

:mindblown:

I think the 2013 flop made alot of people forget that 2010, Wade probably played some of his best ball while LeBron and Spoelstra failed him.
Realistically, Wade should've, could've, would've, had 5rings and 3 Finals MVPs. If Wade doesn't get injured in 2004-2005 ECF, I think Miami advances and beats San Antonio. And if Miami hangs on to that 15pt lead against Dallas in Game2 in 2011.

:damn:
would've been best SG OAT imo. had to play through 10x more than Jordan had to go through to get those 5 rings
 
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FTBS

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U said lebron was a serviceable second option during those finals serious he wasn't at all

That was statement that was a part of my overall point but not the overall point itself. So again I ask how does what you said address my overall point?
 
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