Essential The Official Boxing Random Thoughts Thread...All boxing heads ENTER.

[Jello Biafra]

Like I said are we talking business or boxing here?

And even from a business standpoint those guys are that much of a bigger draw than Ward, Chavez Jr last fight was in a half empty arena and the only time Martinez seen a ppv was along side Jr, so it's not like he is going to make Pacman/Floyd/Canelo or even Cotto money fighting these guys.

An Andre Ward fight would be a career high payday for GGG and a win does more for his legacy than a wins off Martinez/ChavezJr/Froch combined.

Both actually.
Chavez Jr started out the gate with more awareness and popularity than Ward just based off his family name while Martinez has wins over bigger names and has been involved in marquee match-ups more than Ward.
Ward's claim to fame is that tournament that included fighters no casual fan gives two fukks about and a win of a guy in Chad Dawson that no one ever really gave a damn about not even after he beat BHop.
Ward is a top fighter in terms of talent but he is not a marketable star in boxing by any stretch of the imagination.
And while Golovkin would receive a career payday to fight Ward that payday would be much more if he fought Jr or Sergio because they are more marketable fighters. Hell Ward would get his highest pay day if he fought Jr or Sergio.

 

[krackdagawd]

I am talking about from a marketing perspective. Wins over bigger names always trumps wins over the best fighter at a weight class especially when said fighter is only popular in his own home town and hasn't done anything at all to raise his perception among the general populace by being so inactive.

Both actually.
Chavez Jr started out the gate with more awareness and popularity than Ward just based off his family name while Martinez has wins over bigger names and has been involved in marquee match-ups more than Ward.
Ward's claim to fame is that tournament that included fighters no casual fan gives two fukks about and a win of a guy in Chad Dawson that no one ever really gave a damn about not even after he beat BHop.
Ward is a top fighter in terms of talent but he is not a marketable star in boxing by any stretch of the imagination.
And while Golovkin would receive a career payday to fight Ward that payday would be much more if he fought Jr or Sergio because they are more marketable fighters. Hell Ward would get his highest pay day if he fought Jr or Sergio.

I'm noticing you are using words that don't apply to me or anyone posting in this thread. I don't care about casual opinion and neither should you.

Bigger names =/= better fighters and like I said the other fighters mentioned aren't on a level where the casuals know them anyway.

You already know how I feel about Ward and I can't even co-sign that shyt. Having a Ward win on your resume is huge especially if you won clearly or dominated dude.

A win over Ward shoots him up the p4p rankings, will a Chavez Jr or Martinez win do the same? nope.

 

[LauderdaleBoss]

GGG is doing it the right way by trying to fight the Geale's, Chavez Jr's, Kesslers, Martinez's, first since he'll make more money and that would eventually get him a larger cut out of the pie if he was to eventually fight Ward. If he was to fight Ward now he'd make a career high pay day, but prolly get low-balled too. He build his resume up and gain more popularity and the chances of that happening are slimmer.

Martinez has almost been just as inactive as Ward lately, but once he thrashes Cotto his name will return to prominence in the sport. Sure a Ward win is better, but GGG would make more money fighting Martinez and quite frankly more people are looking toward that fight than a Ward/GGG fight. Only Ward fans really talk about that match up. Everyone else wants to see GGG destroy guys like Quillin, Geale, Sturm, Martinez, etc..

Right now Ward is a huge risk an a win would be just as huge, but it won't bring in the money for that fight. GGG would just have to capitalize off of that win in fights after that.

Just my opinion though.

 

[Jello Biafra]

I'm noticing you are using words that don't apply to me or anyone posting in this thread. I don't care about casual opinion and neither should you.

Bigger names =/= better fighters and like I said the other fighters mentioned aren't on a level where the casuals know them anyway.








A win over Ward shoots him up the p4p rankings, will a Chavez Jr or Martinez win do the same? nope.

If a fighter is more well known, has a fan base and as a result is more marketable then a win over that fighter does more for your career than a win over a person who does not have those intangibles.

Golovkin would make more money fighting Martinez and Jr than he would make fighting Ward and a win over those guys would help his career more than a win over Ward would. Now a win over Ward would be better for his legacy and P4P rankings than a win over Jr but I would still say a Martinez win trumps Ward on those terms too because Martinez has the same P4P prestige as Ward while also being a bigger "name".

 

[Newzz]

GGG is doing it the right way by trying to fight the Geale's, Chavez Jr's, Kesslers, Martinez's, first since he'll make more money and that would eventually get him a larger cut out of the pie if he was to eventually fight Ward. If he was to fight Ward now he'd make a career high pay day, but prolly get low-balled too. He build his resume up and gain more popularity and the chances of that happening are slimmer.

Martinez has almost been just as inactive as Ward lately, but once he thrashes Cotto his name will return to prominence in the sport. Sure a Ward win is better, but GGG would make more money fighting Martinez and quite frankly more people are looking toward that fight than a Ward/GGG fight. Only Ward fans really talk about that match up. Everyone else wants to see GGG destroy guys like Quillin, Geale, Sturm, Martinez, etc..

Right now Ward is a huge risk an a win would be just as huge, but it won't bring in the money for that fight. GGG would just have to capitalize off of that win in fights after that.

Just my opinion though.

I agree.


If GGG DOES fight everyone else and convincingly beat them and/or KO them, it will only make the fight with Andre Ward much bigger and bring more money to the table for everyone involved once the casuals realize GGG...the monster vs SOG...the #2 P4P fighter in the world is a MUST see fight.


When SOG beats him, he will get instant permanant residence at #1 P4P as the best fighter in the world, and can go on to bigger and better paydays and PPVs. If GGG was to win, the same thing would happen for him.


Hopefully they will fight, but THIS is the main reason why SOG cant get any fights:

GGG's promoter said a fight with Ward has not been discussed, but they haven't pursued it because they aren't confident that Goosen would make the deal

Like Ward has said multiple times, Goosen is NOT doing his job and not bringing him offers. GGG's promoter is basically confirming this with this statement



Goosen is ruining the career of a Legend

 

[krackdagawd]

Now a win over Ward would be better for his legacy and P4P rankings than a win over Jr

Is this not what I've been saying in this whole thread

I'm not arguing that he would make more money fighting Ward I'm saying the money he would make fighting Jr/Martinez would be closer to what he gets fighting a Ward than say a Cotto/Canelo. It's not like he will be making millions more.

It sounds to me like #Goodboys are just saying we want to cash out and then fight Ward which is cool but it also shows how much confidence they have in leaving out of that fight with a win.


#Shookboys
#SoGGang

 

[krackdagawd]

GGG's promoter said a fight with Ward has not been discussed, but they haven't pursued it because they aren't confident that Goosen would make the deal

Like Ward has said multiple times, Goosen is NOT doing his job and not bringing him offers. GGG's promoter is basically confirming this with this statement



Goosen is ruining the career of a Legend

They haven't even discussed it. How is this Goosen's fault they haven't pursued it?

Why do they have confidence in pursuing a fight with Chavez Jr then? Is he not having problems with his promoter as well?

I fukk with Ward but Goosen has done well promotion wise for him. Now that other stuff about not paying the other guy I can see how Ward has an issue there.

 

[Newzz]

They haven't even discussed it. How is this Goosen's fault they haven't pursued it?

Why do they have confidence in pursuing a fight with Chavez Jr then? Is he not having problems with his promoter as well?

I fukk with Ward but Goosen has done well promotion wise for him. Now that other stuff about not paying the other guy I can see how Ward has an issue there.

Ward wanted to fight Kessler in Denmark.....Goosen didnt pursue it, because he said he didnt like the money.


When your promoter turns down a fight, doesnt even run it past you, he deserves the blame.

We also want to be very clear about something else - when Andre filed his lawsuit against Dan Goossen late last year, he offered to continue to work with Dan while the case played out. Dan said that he would continue to pursue fights for Andre but since the Rodriguez bout, he has been unable to deliver. Andre is still waiting for an offer to fight, and the reality is that he is sitting on the shelf because Dan Goossen simply cannot make it happen. This is one of the precise reasons Andre is trying to free himself from this situation - he is stuck with a promoter who we do not feel can advance his career in the appropriate manner.

Team Andre Ward Respond To Dan Goossen CSAC Win - Boxing News

Despite the lawsuit, Ward informs that he is still free to make fights and work with his promoter but the problem is he has not received an offer since December of last year.

Five months later Ward is on the sidelines and frustrated with his current situation.

“I want to be in the ring more than anybody else wants me in the ring. This is literally how I feed my family. I just turned 30 years old. I’m entering the prime of my career. This isn’t a lawsuit where the judge has put a mandate or stipulation where I can’t fight. That’s not the case. There was a lawsuit filed in Superior Court and then an email that followed that said hey, let’s continue to do this mutually. Let’s work together, it was agreed, so let’s do it. And there’s been a multitude of emails going back and forth, a lot of games being played but the reality of the situation is not one offer [has been made],” Ward would tell BoxingScene and other reporters.

Ward was last seen in the ring in November when he defeated Edwin Rodriguez and has not been able to secure a follow up fight. This inactivity is on the heels of him being out a year due to a shoulder injury which means he’s only fought twice in almost 2 and half years.

Andre was asked if Goossen has tried to at least pursue fights for him since his last bout and while Ward says some names were mentioned, Goossen never delivered a fight.

“[Dan Goossen] pursued some fights, but he hasn’t been able [to deliver]. He tried to dig up Mikkel Kessler in Denmark. We said okay, make us an offer. He came back [and said] the offer is not satisfactory, I can’t offer you this. I’m going to pursue this fight in the states. Got another offer from the network and its way too low. He killed it. [He said] we can’t do this but I’ll continue to look. We waited, we waited, we waited,” said Ward.

“We got another email with 4 names on it: Sakio Bika, Anthony Dirrell, James DeGale and the Russian [who] I can’t even begin to pronounce his name but he’s the guy who is the regular champion for the WBA. And he said if these names are okay, we’ll get a deal done immediately. [We said] make us an offer, we want to fight, we want to get back in there. And as you guys know, those fights aren’t steps forward, they’re steps backwards. But still, make us an offer. Nothing. There hasn’t been one offer since December. That’s the reality of the situation”.

Ward: Goossen Has Not Offered Fight Since December - Boxing News

Dan Goosen is NOT making these fights for him or working to make em. No offers have been made?


Andre Ward fough Edwin RODRIGUEZ for goodness sakes.....you telling me he wouldnt like to whoop on even Bika or Dirrell again just to get some money in his pockets?


Goosen aint doing his job. GGG's promoter is telling us the same thing breh

GGG's promoter said a fight with Ward has not been discussed, but they haven't pursued it because they aren't confident that Goosen would make the deal

Dan Goosen is killing fights on his own without even bringing them to Andre Ward.....that's some Bob Arum type shyt.


Goosen USED to do well promoting him, now he's just keeping him on the shelf

 

[Newzz]

Aiight brehs.....you know I like to call a spade a spade


I was just reading an Andre Ward interview and came across this quote. I literally did my hands like this:


Here it is:

Ward, who reiterated that he won’t move to 175 until it gets too hard to make 168 – which he doesn’t expect to happen any time soon – was wary of a catchweight fight at or near 172 with Russian slugger Sergey Kovalev.

“I’m the champion; why should I or any champion have to chase people, have the pressure on them to chase after people or move up in weight?,” the toned, fit 30-year-old said after an in-ring workout in Hayward, Calif., with trainer Virgil Hunter. “I’ve followed boxing closely for a long time and I’m used to seeing people step up and challenge the champions.

Boxing News | Andre Ward: No Fights, No Worries!

Now, we cant be telling the Middleweight Champion, GGG, that he should move up to 168 to fight us, but at the same time throw this quote out there in reference to moving up to 175 and fighting Kovalev....or even at a catchweight of 172

 

[Black_Jesus]

Question

Was Jr/GGG supposed to be at Middle or SMW?

 

[Newzz]

Question

Was Jr/GGG supposed to be at Middle or SMW?

Super Middleweight

 

[GREENandYELLOW]

Here is my deal:

I 100% percent understand the desire for a Ward-GGG fight. It would be fantastic and great for the sport. I think Ward is a terrific fighter, arguably the most skilled fighter in the game along with Floyd and Rigondeaux. I have also been on record saying that if Ward-GGG fought, I would favor Ward by decision.

But it seems that too many people want to label GGG a Euro bum fighter, and not letting the whole story speak for itself.
GGG has long said on record he wants to be considered #1 at 160. That is his division. He comes into training camp weighing 170. He has been calling out Sergio for over a year trying to become the lineal champ. At first people said GGG didn't deserve the fight, now Sergio is too old so he should move on. Sergio is still the true champ at 160 and GGG's number one priority should be calling out the winner of Cotto-Martinez. Seems he is doing that.

If 160 is GGG's division he should be fighting top fighters in that division. He has fought Macklin and Stevens, both solid fighters - but not top tiered fighters. Murray hasn't been on their radar because he cannot fight in the US. Sturm has had a busy schedule with no openings.
He has offered Geale twice (both rejected by Geale)...and GGG says he is pursuing a Geale fight again. A Geale who many said 6 months ago they wanted him to fight and would help prove if GGG was legit or not...where is that sentiment now?
Room for improvement in his competition at 160...but the storylines show he has tried, it has just been slow moving in that division and no help from HBO.

Now the weight classes outside his division. Of course GGG has said he would fight at 154 for a cash grab (like everyone else) if it involved the boxing retirement plan money vs Mayweather.
But his focus has more been on 168. The debate here becomes if GGG fights at 168 is he obligated to fight the best fighter or is it OKAY for him to move up out of his natural division for a one off fight to get an opponent where he can get PPV money and build his worldwide popularity?
Admittedly Chavez isn't the king at 168, but he is the king in terms of ratings and monetary opportunity. A fight at 168 vs JCC means the biggest paycheck GGG would get from any opponent and the one opponent he could get on PPV with. As Paulie Malignaggi and Max Kellerman always say...this is prizefighting!
Now it may ruffle Ward's feathers more that GGG has said he is willing to fight the winner of Froch-Groves...but again, Froch-Groves just sold out a 40,000 person stadium, will have excellent TV rights in Europe and was picked up by HBO in the US. I would have to imagine that if GGG fought the winner (especially if Froch), he would be looking at again a possibility of his biggest payday possible and most exposure.
Kessler isn't the fighter of the guys mentioned above, but he is a legit top guy at 168. I could see GGG getting criticism for singling him out...but I have to imagine there is a natural desire to fight another European fighter, who he know will sell to his audience and be good business.

That brings us around to Ward. I get the challenge the best, be the best mantra. I love when fighters have that attitude, but also know that these guys have careers that revolve around the money they get in their purse and that is affected by their ratings. As good as Ward is, he isn't the best business decision for GGG. He may be the best fighter GGG could face, but not the best business opportunity.
To fight Ward, GGG has to bring Ward the contract?! With his promotional issues, Goosen and Ward surely aren't writing up contracts signing it and calling out GGG. If it even got to the point where Goosen and Ward worked together to make a fight...standard Ward fare may be in play - fighting in Oakland, having all demands signed to Ward. Granted, GGG did give in to all JCC demands...but that was for more money, a fight in a prime location, and a PPV date.

So is Ward the only fighter GGG can fight without being considered a duck...or are we being hard on GGG because we want him to be a Euro bum?
Ask Ward what he thinks about Euro fighters in weight classes not at 168 when it comes to Kovalev.

 

[Jello Biafra]

Aiight brehs.....you know I like to call a spade a spade


I was just reading an Andre Ward interview and came across this quote. I literally did my hands like this:


Here it is:








Now, we cant be telling the Middleweight Champion, GGG, that he should move up to 168 to fight us, but at the same time throw this quote out there in reference to moving up to 175 and fighting Kovalev....or even at a catchweight of 172

It isn't about championship etiquette with Ward, dude just thinks he is a bigger star than he actually is and quotes like this prove it.

 

[SuikodenII]

I'd rather see Ward-Froch II in the UK, or have him move up to 175

Nothing against Golovkin, but he's a small dude..... who should be getting a shot at Martinez at the end of this year

 

[LauderdaleBoss]

Aiight brehs.....you know I like to call a spade a spade


I was just reading an Andre Ward interview and came across this quote. I literally did my hands like this:


Here it is:








Now, we cant be telling the Middleweight Champion, GGG, that he should move up to 168 to fight us, but at the same time throw this quote out there in reference to moving up to 175 and fighting Kovalev....or even at a catchweight of 172

Breh this is exactly what me and the #GGGoodBoys been saying all along.

nikkas is holding GGG to a higher standard than Ward when it comes to moving up. You can't call Golovokin a duck an then act like Ward is some saint for not going up in weight to face The Krusher.

If ya'll #SOG nikkas were honorable dudes, us #GGGoodBoys (@GREENandYELLOW , @Don Rhymus and myself would be getting that apology, but this is the same crew that celebrates draining light heavyweight champions down in order to get easy victories over them so I doubt we'll receive one.