The Progressive Case Against Obama

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

I'm not answering shyt that you say(because I have a pretty good idea that you're just a contrarian who is upset LOL....oh and LMAO @ third parties having the best chance to change anything in the interim...stop it, and I'm voting third parties locally) until you explain to me how you can say you are not a progressive and then post up an article about progressive critiques of Obama and co-sign them. It's possible, but not very likely or logical. What exactly are you standing on? Who are you?

So if I post a Republican video and cosign 1 or 2 points from I'm a Republican?

More importantly, stop trying to pull this bullshyt where I said that I know how the system works better than anyone. I said one guy's post was "a given" and that's really it. Whether I do or not remains to be seen.

Again, what do you consider the issues worth talking about? More so, what ARE you talking about?[/FONT]

I just told you the issues I want to talk about. You brought up your legislative experience like it was relevant, so now I'm asking you in all your wisdom as an insider to explain what you feel are realistic solutoins to the problems we're facing

But now you dont have anything to say lol.

How is this guy the mod of HL?????

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Again... a third party vote.. is not not voting at all

If I don't agree w/the policies of the Democrats & Republicans... should I just not vote?? Is that democracy????

A third party vote is waisting your vote. Third party positions are not very different then dem and rep policies. They have less people to answer to so they are able to take the rhetoric a little further, but in reality most of them could fit within one of the parties. You are supposed to vote for the candidate that had the best chance to enforce your ideologies. You will never totally agree with any candidate, but if liberal/progressive policy is what your looking for Obama is your best bet. I took the "who should you support" quiz and i got Jill stein. I wouldn't dare waste my vote on her because she has no chance in hell at getting elected. These people go the third party approach for attention, if she thought she could get some recognition in the democratic party she would be a democrat. As it stands her biggest chance for popularity/recognition is to align with a third party, but I guarantee she knows, she is unable to make real change, if she wanted to make real change she would join the democratic party and work on getting things changed, instead of the perpetual third party candidacy.

 

[Broke Wave]

Americans need to cut the bullshyt and just vote. I totally don't understand voter apathy when the choice is literally between Mitt Romney and Barack Obama.

Let me re-iterate, the choice is LITERALLY between Mitt Romney and Barack Obama.

LITERALLY.

There is NOTHING that would convince me that apathy, and letting Romney become president is preferable to voting for Obama. NOTHING.

 

[No1]

So if I post a Republican video and cosign 1 or 2 points from I'm a Republican?




I just told you the issues I want to talk about. You brought up your legislative experience like it was relevant, so now I'm asking you in all your wisdom as an insider to explain what you feel are realistic solutoins to the problems we're facing

But now you dont have anything to say lol.

How is this guy the mod of HL?????

I'm the mod of HL because unlike guys like you, I don't feel that I'm smarter than everyone else but I know how to call out bullshyt.

The point is simple, you posted up a progressive critique of Obama and then endorsed it but then you said you're not a progressive. So then how the fukk are the progressive critiques salient to YOU? Then you posted that garbage about Romney being better for business and you thinking that would be better for the economy when business is doing the best that it's ever done.

I've just been waiting for you to break down why those critiques are powerful to you. Some of those critiques that a bunch of us on here have made. Thus, I asked WHO ARE YOU?

I'm still waiting for the issues, you just posted up that the economy is failing, there are issues in the middle east and walked away. What the heck does that mean? Do you think I'm about to give you a thesis on every issue in the world? Specifically name something. You can't. Besides, the Obama administration's foreign policy is something that is pretty much universally endorsed. That is not what has people concerned. So tell me what policies related to housing, banks, education, etc. that specifically concern you or else you're not saying shyt. This isn't the place for me to give you a thesis on the entire world. You just straight up said, "Eh you BarNone, we got problems in the middle east, how do you fix that shyt?" How do we fix what? Everyone knows that I speak out on EVERYTHING I know something about.
I don't have legislative experience, many of my friends and former teachers/mentors do/did.

You sound like you know a lot about nothing.

You initiated the thread, said Romney was better for the economy and now you don't know how to say why specifically or how to frame issues?

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

Americans need to cut the bullshyt and just vote. I totally don't understand voter apathy when the choice is literally between Mitt Romney and Barack Obama.

Let me re-iterate, the choice is LITERALLY between Mitt Romney and Barack Obama.

LITERALLY.

There is NOTHING that would convince me that apathy, and letting Romney become president is preferable to voting for Obama. NOTHING.

People are literally too lazy to vote. It has nothing to do with smart or dumb either half the time. I think voting should be incentivized somehow, but im not sure how to go about it.

 

[No1]

People are literally too lazy to vote. It has nothing to do with smart or dumb either half the time. I think voting should be incentivized somehow, but im not sure how to go about it.

I said in one of my earlier posts in this thread that voting should be mandatory like in Austrailia. You get fined if you don't vote.

 

[Type Username Here]

Stop lying. My family was not even in this country during the Civil Rights period. I never said any such thing.

You said something along the lines of blacks unconditionally supporting the Democrats since the early 60s.

Oh really? During the Bush administration the Patriot Act was unprecedented. Furthermore, they didn't exactly have a failing economy, and the rise of poverty, etc. to do deal with. People on the left don't even know that much about the NDAA, I've had to tell most people about it. It's not nearly as publicized. Further, I criticized liberal for picking and choosing. But they obviously trust Obama more than Bush. That's what it comes down to, and I never said they were right to do so.

Trust Obama more than Bush? That's your reasoning for supporting Obama and doing these things? What about the things where Obama went above and beyond what Bush did?

It makes perfecr sense, you care about one single issue that is arguably unconstitutional vs. issues that are affecting the everyday lives of Americans. I get a kick out of you dapping up posters that don't believe in your stance whatsoever. You confuse agreeing that the system is flawed with agreeing with your ridiculous stance.

The system is flawed because partisan hacks like you are willing to let "your guy" get away with whatever they want as long as the "other guy" doesn't win. YOU are the reason the system is broken.

there goes you're crying again. WAAAAAAAAAAHHHH, the system is broken, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH, no shyt. You don't know how to fix a damn thing. You demonstrate that whenever you speak. You have no problem-solving skills whatsoever. You're right I am GENUINELY bothered by people who can only point out problems but can offer no solutions. But I'm even more bothered by a guy who weighs a policy that has a .0000000000000001% likelihood of affecting anyone over things that affect EVERYONE.

No problem solving skills? Coming from the guy who thinks they system is going to get fixed by keeping it alive? That's problem solving to you? I offered my solution: I won't support candidates who I feel don't represent me as much as possible. You have admitted countless fukking times to going against your ideals to vote for the lesser of two evils. The only lacking any solutions is you.

That's all you got? Vague references to the ways Democrats reacted to President Bush who had already lied to them about a war, had 9/11 happen on his watch and who people feared wanted to go to war with Iran? Who had also permitted water-boating? Yeah, I wonder why people were more distrustful of that guy than the guy who voted against the war. I wonder why they were more distrustful of a guy who had Cheney and Rumsfeld in his administration. More importantly, the current court already said the Patriot Act was constitutional. So now what? I don't like it at all, but I do not and MOST people do not weigh that higher than every other problem that affects everyday people. That is my issue with you, you spent a month acting like you were above everyone because they didn't weigh that as heavily as you. You're against Obama damn near solely on that issue.

I'm against Obama on a lot of issues, but civil liberties is the main one. That is important to me.

He, a constitutional scholar, changed once he got into power and saw the landscape. If you 're voting for a third party because of that then you're doing the same thing Obama voters are doing, placing your faith in a guy's character. It's the same thing.

I voted for Obama in 2008 and actually volunteered for his campaign. His rhetoric and voting record did not come to fruition as president. I'm talking about actions OUTSIDE of the congressional gridlock.

What bothers me is this false dichotomy you keep setting up. It's to the point where it's PAINFULLY obvious that all you can do it speak in generalities. At no point have I advocated voting for the guy with the best chance of winning. I prefer voting for the guy who has the best chance of getting ANY of my ideals through. No politician in history has ever gotten everything his supporters want through. This is what you don't get. If I vote for Jill Stein and Romney wins and fukks over college students, people who are still on their parent's healthcare, maintains the supreme court that authorized the policy that you're crying about, etc. How did I not just shoot myself in the foot?

So if you're choice was Romney or Bachman, you'd willingly go vote for Romney?

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

I said in one of my earlier posts in this thread that voting should be mandatory like in Austrailia. You get fined if you don't vote.

Yeah, that or give voters a small but noticeable tax break.

EDIT: who wouldnt vote for Romney over Bachmann? That c*nt is the goddamn devil.

 

[Type Username Here]

Yeah, that or give voters a small but noticeable tax break.

Not voting can be seen as an act of free speech. If someone feels that the system of government is not to their liking, they can choose to not vote as a form of protest.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

I voted for Obama in 2008 and actually volunteered for his campaign. His rhetoric and voting record did not come to fruition as president. I'm talking about actions OUTSIDE of the congressional gridlock.

I disagree with this statement, most all issues he ran his campagn on have been at least addresss. Things may not be totally fixed, or he didn't get some stuff done, but his overall ideologies, and concerns have not changed.
How does his rhetoric and record as president differ, from when he was a candidate?

So if you're choice was Romney or Bachman, you'd willingly go vote for Romney?

I'd vote Romney 10 times. Your ideal candidate may not be nominated in every election, but you still have an obligation to use your voice.

 

[Type Username Here]

EDIT: who wouldnt vote for Romney over Bachmann? That c*nt is the goddamn devil.

So, as long as the country keeps getting shifted to the right on the ideological spectrum, as long as we vote for the lesser of two evils we will be okay?

How does this even make sense to some of you people. I don't understand it.

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

Not voting can be seen as an act of free speech. If someone feels that the system of government is not to their liking, they can choose to not vote as a form of protest.

Fine, but make them register for it with a page long essay as to why typed out and sent.

That takes longer to do than voting, so you know it's not about laziness then.

 

[Type Username Here]

Fine, but make them register for it with a page long essay as to why typed out and sent.

That takes longer to do than voting, so you know it's not about laziness then.

I'm not arguing that most of these people AREN'T lazy, I'm stating why it would be hard to make it mandatory.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Not voting can be seen as an act of free speech. If someone feels that the system of government is not to their liking, they can choose to not vote as a form of protest.

Yes it is a form a protest but at the end of the day it will never cause any change.

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

So, as long as the country keeps getting shifted to the right on the ideological spectrum, as long as we vote for the lesser of two evils we will be okay?

How does this even make sense to some of you people. I don't understand it.

Nope, after a certain point i'd move or revolt, whatever's more convenient.

Look, I just voted for a 3rd party candidate. But i'm fine with the balance between standing up for what you believe in and choosing a compromise. Sometimes we don't have a luxury to do that. If i was living in a swing state you bet your ass I'd vote Obama.