Socialism is going to be the movement
The Rich and Their Robots Are About to Make Half the World's Jobs Disappear
- Thread starter tmonster
- Start date
lurkandmurk
The Bull
Alright, what if people did lose their job for this. Can they not get a pension? Some type of payment for all the hard work they've put into the jobs they were laid-off from?
Most of the jobs created in this recovery have been low wage part time jobs. So if those get automated eventually, what happens to those people and the people who want to get those jobs?
Are we gonna basically be a society where only a small section of the working age population actually works?
Are we gonna basically be a society where only a small section of the working age population actually works?
yes. everyone gets a stipend for food, rent and utility costs. if you want to travel, buy nice things or have kids you get a jobMost of the jobs created in this recovery have been low wage part time jobs. So if those get automated eventually, what happens to those people and the people who want to get those jobs?
Are we gonna basically be a society where only a small section of the working age population actually works?
Most of the jobs created in this recovery have been low wage part time jobs. So if those get automated eventually, what happens to those people and the people who want to get those jobs?
Are we gonna basically be a society where only a small section of the working age population actually works?
Am I the only one looking forward to this?
iceberg_is_on_fire
Wearing Lions gear when it wasn't cool
I worked for Ford from 1999 to 2006. Starting at 19. People thought I had it made, retire at 49, live the good life. I thought that too, until one chance discussion during a union meeting. I worked at the Chicago Stamping Plant in Ford Heights, Illinois. My folks work there still with 30 years plus seniority. Anyways, I would normally sleep during the meetings and this was around the time they canned the Taurus for awhile. We were to build the Freestyle and the 500 Hundred while in Mexico, they were making the Fusion. This is where people miss the forest for the trees. We were due to get a lot of overtime due to the ramp up of these two new cars. I asked a question. Why are we getting these cars while the Fusion will be made in Mexico? The Union rep said that we, with all that we make, insurance, pensions, whatever...we cost about $80 an hour while the workers in Mexico are $3. It doesn't matter if the numbers were correct or not, just the sheer difference woke me the fukk up. I go home that night, look at what the company was projected for sales. The Fusion was the star in the news clippings, the cars we were making were to have barely modest sales. The writing was on the wall. I worked nights at that time. I woke up, started researching colleges and enrolled in one on the spot. My ex-wife was like, why are you doing this, you are making so much money. I simply said, the bottom is going to fall out because the writing is definitely on the wall. This isn't even something you have to pay attention to, its bright as fukk, neon lights. This was 2004. After two years of school, entering my junior year in college, Ford offered buyouts to leave. I took my educational buyout, they paid off my junior and senior year. After I got my bachelors, quickly dove back into school to get my MBA. I was not going to bullshyt with that.
Whole story had me like
!!!I have to give you props, most people in your situation would have bytched out and stayed on a sinking ship because they didn't know what to do.
I heard what they got paid in Detroit was typical for autoworkers compared to companies overseas but what killed them were the pensions from all of the people. A lot of overseas automakers weren't as old as the american ones so they didn't have to worry about taking care of their old workers.
It's probably why a lot of companies are now switching to 401K matching contributions so if you don't save shyt, the company won't have shyt saved for you either.
humble forever
All Star
Thread has taught me that Mexicans are the new slaves
iceberg_is_on_fire
Wearing Lions gear when it wasn't cool
Whole story had me like
I have to give you props, most people in your situation would have bytched out and stayed on a sinking ship because they didn't know what to do.
I heard what they got paid in Detroit was typical for autoworkers compared to companies overseas but what killed them were the pensions from all of the people. A lot of overseas automakers weren't as old as the american ones so they didn't have to worry about taking care of their old workers.
It's probably why a lot of companies are now switching to 401K matching contributions so if you don't save shyt, the company won't have shyt saved for you either.
You just don't know how right you are. We were two stacks in the hole, each car sold because of pensions. On top of other shyt. I'd rather fail myself than watch a company fail for me. You are right, I left and it was scary for awhile. Anyone would doubt leaving a job that made you over ninety grand a year. Do I make the same wage? No, I don't. Is my quality of life better though? Yes. I was fortunate enough to be young enough to know that I could change my fortunes and smart enough to recognize my window of opportunity to go back to school. At the time, I had to cross my fingers and hope to survive for 23 more years, not to mention how much the union would have to sell us out to possibly make it that far. Not a risk I was willing to take.
Vandelay
Life is absurd. Lean into it.
I've said it before; we are about to enter an age of Neo-Feudalism.
Ultimately management, investor, executive roles will exist; and of course everyone cannot be amongst those ranks. Creative roles will exist, but they are even attempting to automate creativity.
The irony is, all of these robots and automatons are going to replace jobs that are intended to service people. So in essence, companies and governments will have 2 outcomes to move towards because the people they intend to service will not have the funds to pay those products and services:
Minimum welfare or a living wage (or shyt...a money-less society)
or
Withdrawal from larger society as the rest of the world lives in squalor (Think Elysium)
These are the only 2 logical outcomes...and the larger public is just going to allow it to happen.
Its the natural order of things. It would be no different if the Rockerfellers or JoJo from down the street was apart of the 1%. I just hope that corporations and governments realize that there is no way to really stop this inevitable shift, but consider and provide for everyone; and not just stick to the usual "bootstraps" rhetoric we have heard over and over, because this time its different.
Ultimately management, investor, executive roles will exist; and of course everyone cannot be amongst those ranks. Creative roles will exist, but they are even attempting to automate creativity.
The irony is, all of these robots and automatons are going to replace jobs that are intended to service people. So in essence, companies and governments will have 2 outcomes to move towards because the people they intend to service will not have the funds to pay those products and services:
Minimum welfare or a living wage (or shyt...a money-less society)
or
Withdrawal from larger society as the rest of the world lives in squalor (Think Elysium)
These are the only 2 logical outcomes...and the larger public is just going to allow it to happen.
Its the natural order of things. It would be no different if the Rockerfellers or JoJo from down the street was apart of the 1%. I just hope that corporations and governments realize that there is no way to really stop this inevitable shift, but consider and provide for everyone; and not just stick to the usual "bootstraps" rhetoric we have heard over and over, because this time its different.
i think that there are only two solutions, and in a way youve already highlighted one:
1. populations will have to decrease down eg pre industrial revolution numbers
2. drive the cost of living to zero so these populations can realistically be supported
the first can be implemented with child planning and would be a lot easier to accomplish in already low population areas. the replacement rate for each mother/father is two children and if that figure doesnt become exceeded populations will decrease through natural attrition ie the people who only have 1 child or people who have no children at all will gradually bring the overall population down over time. this is a pretty straightforward solution. we wouldnt need to kill a whole bunch of people. we could simply just wait it out and let it happen.
as for the second it would have to take lots of planning. for one thing how do you provide cheap (or free?) housing on a large scale? how do you do the same with food, electricity, transportation, etc. is this even realistic?
as our society being designed the way it is we have barely even begun to ask thesse kinds of questions though they might be the most important questions we have to ask going foward
thats an excellent point. to avoid the latter we would have to think of a way to make the guaranteed/unconditional minimum income solution feasible. as i see it, the only way to make it realistically happen is to drive the cost of living as close to zero as it can. the cost of living is so great at this moment that to provide a universal minimum income to everyone would cost so much that the latter solution in your ultimatum is actually more realistic.
Vandelay
Life is absurd. Lean into it.
The problem with rolling out this solution is...as classes divide, anti-capitalist and anti-socialist rhetoric will be wide-spread causing divisions and misunderstanding amongst society. The reason why I believe we are in a unique time and potentially on the cusp of a neo-feudalist society is because we are so interconnected now, an impoverished person can actually contact a billionaire and vice-versa and the condition of both lifestyles is actually accessible (from an observational perspective), its not alien. When social conditions and classes are alien to one another its hard to understand that person's perspective and easy to create divisions and ultimately turmoil and subsequent unrest.
Its easy to put someone in a subservient position or a permanent underclass, or worse...if you do not understand that person's experiences. My fear is, if this upperclass of uber-rich withdrawals, it will be much easier for them to place larger society at a disadvantage.
I'm using very broad and ambiguous terms as you can imagine what the implications are.