The Scandinavian Socialism Argument

[DEAD7]

I agree, this is starting to go off topic. My bad.

But just remember those countries next time you want to go on about how great libertarianism is in another thread...just saying...

Since I have some time, lets look at this.

Scandinavian countries are in actuality more capitalist than america in many ways and baaaaarely more socialist.


Nearly all of them rank higher than the U.S. in business freedom, monetary freedom, investment freedom, fiscal freedom, financial freedom, property freedom() and freedom from corruption.

They are mostly free from regulation, nationalization and protectionism, making it foolish to point to any Scandinavian country and call it an example of socialism working... or some kind of legitimate alternative to capitalism.

We can also look at government spending as a percentage of GDP. In the “capitalist” United States, government spending is equal to roughly 40% of the national GDP. In the “socialist” Norway, government spending is equal to roughly 46% of the national GDP.
It is dishonest to compare Norway to the US and call one an example of successful socialism and the other an example of failed capitalism when both governments spend similar amounts of money on a percentage basis.

Moreover, there is zero evidence anywhere in the world that high taxes reduce poverty. Just because a few countries with high taxes have low poverty rates does not mean high taxes are good. There are plenty of counter examples of countries with high taxes and high poverty rates and vice versa.

Look at the United States. The War on Poverty was declared nearly 50 years ago and has pumped roughly 7 Trillion dollars into combating poverty. At current spending levels, we could just straight up give $27,000 a year to every poor person in the US and they’d be better off... not that im suggesting that.

High immigration rates also affect poverty rates...
I'll actually leave that alone, cause immigration can easily derail any thread.

They dont seem too happy either
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

Spoiler

... and we havent even got to military spending and how we 'lead' the world... but I first want to hear your argument.

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

 

[88m3]

I wonder which mods alias this is?





what a joke

 

[DEAD7]

Personally what have you given back to society lately, op?


Try and answer this one as if you were an adult if you don't mind.

Me an my wife regularly donate to charity.
She also does tons of volunteer community outreach work here locally.

why?

 

[DEAD7]

@Melbournelad

 

[Berniewood Hogan]

IT WOULD BE MORE LIKE THE "Scandinavian Socialism Polite Disagreement Over a Fish Dinner And If Anyone's Feelings Are Hurt Perhaps We Can Petition the Government to Provide a Neutral Mediating Party" BROTHER!

 

[DEAD7]

These countries have small, homogenous populations, oil money and free markets, and IMHO these countries do well despite high taxes, not because of high taxes.
I see them as soft capitalist nations

 

[Black smoke and cac jokes]

These countries have small, homogenous populations, oil money and free markets, and IMHO these countries do well despite high taxes, not because of high taxes.
I see them as soft capitalist nations

Don't know if you're trolling or don't like to read....

 

[DEAD7]

Don't know if you're trolling or don't like to read....

explain...

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Energy/Oil/Production/Per-capita

as much as many here like to vilify big oil( and rightfully so) I think we shouldnt ignore the above fact when pointing to the success of Norway.
Is this data no longer accurate? if so, please link to current data


... and a little trolling is always necessary.

 

[Robbie3000]

I don't think anyone makes any claims that Scandinavian countries are full socialist countries or that the US is a pure capitalist society. We all understand that they are mixed economies. What most people admire about the Scandinavian countries is the robust social safety net these countries provide their citizens.

You are also mistaken about the level of government ownership of businesses. Norway for example owns business in different sectors in the economy.

You are also making a bunch of unsupported assertions in regards to regulations etc.

You are also purposefully misleading people about the level of government spending to GDP ratio by only highlighting Norway. Denmark for example, had government spending of 52% of GDP in 2011, compared to just 38% for the US.

You are also misleading people in regards to the happiest countries in the world by posting up the suicide rate of Norway. Norway is consistently at the top of most lists of the happiest countries int he world and Scandinavian countries usually round up the top 10.

 

[AyahuascaSippin]

scandinavian countries have a lot of benefits not available to the majority of the 'empire'

between the highest unemployment benefits on the planet, outstanding health and school services/funding the lowest crime rates anywhere and consistently the only nations where the gap between income and expenditure is wide enough for comfort.. and higher taxes aint helping no one, taxes should be income based, since these wealthy speculators borrowing at 0% have such a nasty gambling habit, they should be responsible when the market crashes

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

These countries have small, homogenous populations, oil money and free markets, and IMHO these countries do well despite high taxes, not because of high taxes.
I see them as soft capitalist nations

They also have public healthcare, public higher education, significantly better worker's benefits and rights (look up their maternity/paternity leave policies).

And @ their oil... US is going to be energy independent within the next 2 decades

You also forget that those govts don't operate in a deficit... I.e. Norway's govt spends 48% of its GDP, but in 2013 they ran an 11% budget surplus. Their total national effective tax rate was 45% vs our 22%.... so the other 18% is made up with Federal Reserve sorcery (and I am certain that 22/18% is wrong, it's more like 30/10% now)

Another big difference is what they spend the money on.... Scandinavian countries invest in their citizens' health, education and general well being.... the US pisses money away on cash transfer entitlements, military endeavors and cronyist handouts. So its dishonest of you to compare things purely on taxes without looking at what the taxes are being spent on

 

[DEAD7]

The point being that they are capitalist with strong safety nets, and not an example of throwing capitalism in the bushes, as is often insinuated.
shytting on capitalism is an everyday occurrence, but the moment some facts show up its, we need a mixed economy(which is what we have).
I agree with everything posted in here...
No arguments from me.

We all understand that they are mixed economies.

Not everyone on this board does... I think i'll start responding with "as opposed to what?" in order to expose them...
and I agree with the rest of your post.
The suicide part had a clear though.

 

[DEAD7]

And @ their oil... US is going to be energy independent within the next 2 decades

I hope this is true.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

I switched from a galaxy to an iphone a couple of weeks ago. I can't 1 star threads on it for some reason. Anybody know about this?

The point being that they are capitalist with strong safety nets, and not an example of throwing capitalism in the bushes, as is often insinuated.
shytting on capitalism is an everyday occurrence, but the moment some facts show up its, we need a mixed economy(which is what we have).
I agree with everything posted in here...
No arguments from me.




Not everyone on this board does... I think i'll start responding with "as opposed to what?" in order to expose them...
and I agree with the rest of your post.
The suicide part had a clear though.

U agree with everything in here... but u are going to "expose" people in here who disagree with you.....

Scandinavian countries are capitalist... with safety nets that eat into a capitalists profits

And usually when facts show up.... u are the one that looks like an idiot

So chill w/the Vince McMahon strutting... and trying to have it both ways with pretty much every point you make. One sentence youre a libertarian, next youre a capitalist, next youre for safety nets.... commit to something