The Untold Story of Men in "Mad Men"

Zapp Brannigan

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Naw I will give him that. Life is hard. Where he is wrong is that a man's life is harder than a woman's, or that all mens' lives are hard because of women. If you don't have kids or get married there's nothing a woman can really do to you. And if you choose to get married or have kids you have to be a man and take responsibility + accept the potential consequences of your actions. Again, choice... sharp contrast with a woman in the 50s, for whom the only ticket to socioeconomic climbing/prosperity was through a man.

Not to mention back then a man could have his family and have a bunch of side chicks, and nobody could do anything about it. Divorce was unheard of. Mad Men celebrates the contrast in sexual freedom between genders of the time.

The pooh poohing and constant scrambling to male victimhood is depressing. @DaygoTaco why are you so eager to turn in your manhood card and throw in the towel? ITs not that bad.

"GO MAKE ME A SANDWICH!!"

That's what you sound like. A 12 year old. I guess if you wanna try to prove how manly you are by e-simping internet feminists, do you. You're not gonna really do much shaming me over the internet to really silence me about this. Can't get mad at me for pointing this shyt out.
 
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Zapp Brannigan

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No I don't.

What is so hard about being a man under normal baseline circumstances? I don't get it, lol. You wake up, brush your teeth, shave, eat, go to work, go to the gym, watch tv, surf the web or whatever, take a shyt, fukk your girl, and go to sleep. Repeat.

Why don't you tell us what you find so hard about being a man?

You seem to think that I put this stuff out there for personal reasons. I've seen lots of guys suffer a lot because of gender roles that feminism has played against men. It sucks for them and sometimes people need a voice.

I stick up for gay people too, doesn't mean that I have to be a gay person to do it. I see people getting the short end of the stick on some things and I point it out.

Do you say similar things to Hollywood Liberals that speak out for the poor? "You're rich! STOP WHINING YOU PUSSIFIED a$$hole!"
 

TLR Is Mental Poison

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"GO MAKE ME A SANDWICH!!"

That's what you sound like. A 12 year old. I guess if you wanna try to prove how manly you are by e-simping internet feminists, do you. You're not gonna really do much shaming me over the internet to really silence me about this. Can't get mad at me for pointing this shyt out.

Who am I trying to impress, and what does this have to do with the conversation? Can you even name a female that posts in HL at all?

Nobody is mad at you for pointing anything out; I am disappointed in you for embracing victimhood and weakness on shaky and often outright false premises. There are definitely some gender issues today not working in men's favor, but in your eagerness to jump on any and everything in that realm you manage to miss all of them. Lol @ white men in the 50s having hardships/ being victims of anything, you dont' even realize how stupid you sound, no disrespect.
 

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I've seen lots of guys suffer a lot because of gender roles that feminism has played against men.

Examples please, lets hear these stories of males being oppressed by feminism.

And what are you doing offline to help these victims, if this is such an important cause to you?
 

Zapp Brannigan

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Who am I trying to impress, and what does this have to do with the conversation? Can you even name a female that posts in HL at all?

Nobody is mad at you for pointing anything out; I am disappointed in you for embracing victimhood and weakness on shaky and often outright false premises. There are definitely some gender issues today not working in men's favor, but in your eagerness to jump on any and everything in that realm you manage to miss all of them. Lol @ white men in the 50s having hardships/ being victims of anything, you dont' even realize how stupid you sound, no disrespect.

:whoa: Again, who said that this was me embracing and wallowing in victimhood? And who said that I said that white men in the 50's were the biggest victims? I just point it out that in the gender debate, things were not easy because of the intensity of the work involved at the time and the stakes that were involved with not meeting with the societally imposed gender obligations at the time.
 

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Who am I trying to impress, and what does this have to do with the conversation? Can you even name a female that posts in HL at all?

Nobody is mad at you for pointing anything out; I am disappointed in you for embracing victimhood and weakness on shaky and often outright false premises. There are definitely some gender issues today not working in men's favor, but in your eagerness to jump on any and everything in that realm you manage to miss all of them. Lol @ white men in the 50s having hardships/ being victims of anything, you dont' even realize how stupid you sound, no disrespect.

:damn: that's disrespectful though brah many dudes worked that ass off

at that point i could easily return with the fact(?) that (white) woman aint do shyt for earth in like 400 years :damn:
 

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You seem to think that I put this stuff out there for personal reasons. I've seen lots of guys suffer a lot because of gender roles that feminism has played against men. It sucks for them and sometimes people need a voice.

I stick up for gay people too, doesn't mean that I have to be a gay person to do it. I see people getting the short end of the stick on some things and I point it out.

Do you say similar things to Hollywood Liberals that speak out for the poor? "You're rich! STOP WHINING YOU PUSSIFIED a$$hole!"

You're just using strawmen now. Every individual and every group have their own unique struggles. But if you're going to try and say men have it harder than women, sorry I don't see it.

Being physically stronger, getting paid more, being able to do more types of work because of our physical differences, being of the sex that is at the vast majority of the levers of power in society, not having everything in your professional life being questioned because of your gender, and being able to fukk whoever you want without societal shame >>>>> having genital bleeding, headaches, and moodswings once a month and worrying about getting raped if you have to go to CVS at night to get Motrin for it.

Being a man is pretty dope. I like it.
 

Zapp Brannigan

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Examples please, lets hear these stories of males being oppressed by feminism.

And what are you doing offline to help these victims, if this is such an important cause to you?

1. Women are treated better in all aspects of the legal system. For instance, women receive lighter sentences and a higher chance of acquittal, simply for being women.

2. Men are significantly more likely to be the victims of violent crime (of which rape is included) than women.

3. Despite domestic violence being equally committed by women, for the most part only male perpetrators are arrested.

4. The feminist definition of domestic violence has skewed arrest and prosecution philosophies, resulting in having mostly male batterers criminally pursued, and female batterers left alone.

5. It is legal to circumcise male babies against their will. In some places, laws have been passed which forbid any attempts to make male circumcision illegal. Meanwhile, female circumcision is completely illegal, even though some types of female circumcision are equivalent in harm to male circumcision, and other types (a symbolic prick to draw blood) are non-harmful.

6. Men comprise 95% of workplace deaths.

7. Men commit suicide at over triple the rate that women do.

8. The vast majority of prisoners are men.

9. Men are doing worse in all aspects of the educational system, from kindergarten to university.

10. Men who are falsely accused of rape can have their names published and their lives ruined even if they are not convicted or charged - their accuser is protected and is likely to face no punishment, or a light one.

11. Reproductive rights. Men have none. Simply read this story.

12. Parental rights. Men have virtually none. See below.
A woman can name any man she likes as the father, he gets a letter in the mail, if he does not prove he isn't the father within 30 days—(suppose the letter gets lost by the USPS?)—he is now the father and must pay. He cannot contest it.

- A boy who is the victim of statutory rape must pay child support to his rapist.

- A man who is raped while unconscious must likewise pay child support.

- A man who fathers a child and wishes to take custody may have his child adopted out against his will and essentially kidnapped

13. The majority of homeless are men.

14. Despite men's need being arguably greater than women, government spending to help women
is 10 to 100 times greater than that to help men. That figure is unrelated to medical spending.

15. In 2009/2010 it was $1,516,460 toward men and $57,562,373 toward women. In 2010/2011 it was $3,740,800 toward men and $48,331,443 toward women. In 2008/2009 the province dedicated $561,360 toward men's resources and $98,983,236 toward women's resources. (figures are for British Columbia, Canada, but representative of Western society).

16. Female-owned businesses get free government money for literally no reason other than being a woman (i.e. all other factors are equal, same size of business, same income, etc. etc. but the owner's gender is different = money or no money.

17. On some airlines, men were banned from sitting next to kids on airplanes, simply because they were men. Why? Because men are pedophiles, obviously. This ban remains on some airlines, such as Air New Zealand.

18. Under a recent federal directive, men are convicted of rape in university campuses if the investigating board finds that the chances they committed the rape are at 50.00001% or greater.

19. The DOE policy in practice: Caleb Warner was accused of rape and expelled from the University of North Dakota, then his accuser was charged with filing a false report. He remained expelled as of June 2011.

20. Selective service. Enough said.
 

Zapp Brannigan

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You're just using strawmen now. Every individual and every group have their own unique struggles. But if you're going to try and say men have it harder than women, sorry I don't see it.

Being physically stronger, getting paid more, being able to do more types of work because of our physical differences, being of the sex that is at the vast majority of the levers of power in society, not having everything in your professional life being questioned because of your gender, and being able to fukk whoever you want without societal shame >>>>> having genital bleeding, headaches, and moodswings once a month and worrying about getting raped if you have to go to CVS at night to get Motrin for it.

Being a man is pretty dope. I like it.

:whoa: Again, for the millionth fukking time, since I know that I always have to repeat myself here, I'm not saying that it's worse for men, I'm saying that there are shytty things that men have to deal with and that feminism tries to deny this using lies and propaganda. It's a hateful ideology and I don't cosign with it. I especially hate the bullshyt lie that "patriarchy hurts men, too" because by definition it doesn't and wouldn't hurt men to begin with.
 

The Real

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I have been waiting for you to post this. It's my favorite bullshyt infographic.

That's an awful huge number of rapists that you're assuming are actual rapists without any kind of scrutinizing or proof. It's also pretty funny that you're assuming that they're still rapists after they've been reported but there wasn't enough evidence to take it to trial. It's even more hilarious that you still assume that they're rapists after going to trial, having the evidence examined, and still were let off.

There are very good reasons to assume that a considerable portion of those are actual rapes, but let's assume that none of them but the ones who get convicted are actually rapists. That's still 5 times the number who are falsely accused. Your problem is to suggest that this number (but only this number) can be realistically assumed to be significantly inflated. It's a perfect example of cognitive dissonance at work.

Now, let's be more realistic and assume that some of the people in the "rapists" category are actually rapists. Then your argument looks even worse.

Furthermore, you can correct for everything wrong with the infographic (of course, you've wrongly assumed that I approached it uncritically) and it would still make your argument unrealistic:

The Enliven Project's false rape accusations infographic: great intentions, but it isn't accurate.


I guess when it comes to stupid people feminists it's guilty until proven innocent, because men are bad and women are good and innocent, am I right?

Of course not. Why the strawman?

You were never really that good with statistics, though. This is why I don't really take you that seriously despite having a sophisticated writing style and your flowery rhetoric about acceptance and being anti-ignorance.

Well, here we go with your attitude again. I don't know if I'm great or not, but I'm clearly better with them than you are, judging from our last few exchanges, in which you conveniently ignored factors and were unable to explain your own reasoning.

Here's a few links that address your inflated statistics more in depth:


This doesn't address the study above, but regardless, she's an easily discredited author. Her book about the "war against boys" was easily one of the worst books on male problems in its time. She's not a trained social scientist, though, so it's not surprising that she would fail at writing like one.


This suffers the same problem as your previous link. It addresses literally one, older study as if there's no other information out there.


Similar problems here, but let's be real- this website and its explanation are pathetic. You're smart enough to be posting much better shyt than this.


Ah, a "Christian Perspective." Have you read this? It suggests that statistics used to explain rape are not entirely accurate, but it's unable to prove that the percentage of of false accusations is in any way where you need it to be.

Anyway, posting a flurry of propaganda that muddles the debate is an unfortunate part of your argumentative style. Let's stick to specific points if you want to keep debating.
 

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:whoa: Again, for the millionth fukking time, since I know that I always have to repeat myself here, I'm not saying that it's worse for men, I'm saying that there are shytty things that men have to deal with and that feminism tries to deny this using lies and propaganda. It's a hateful ideology and I don't cosign with it. I especially hate the bullshyt lie that "patriarchy hurts men, too" because by definition it doesn't and wouldn't hurt men to begin with.

:manny: Who cares. And why are you so angry about it, seriously?
 

The Real

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:whoa: Again, for the millionth fukking time, since I know that I always have to repeat myself here, I'm not saying that it's worse for men, I'm saying that there are shytty things that men have to deal with and that feminism tries to deny this using lies and propaganda. It's a hateful ideology and I don't cosign with it. I especially hate the bullshyt lie that "patriarchy hurts men, too" because by definition it doesn't and wouldn't hurt men to begin with.

:snoop:

Let's get this straight.

1. Your position is that feminism denies that bad things happen to men

2. Then you turn right around and admit that feminists say that patriarchy hurts men

3. And you believe that a social formation is incapable of constraining or hurting its primary actors? So white supremacy is incapable of hurting white people? nazism never hurt the average german?

Come on, son, you're so much smarter than this on every other topic. Why this bizarre cognitive dissonance? A power relation always involves more than one actor, and each actor is affected by that relation in different ways. White supremacy by definition constrains white people in certain ways.
 

Zapp Brannigan

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There are very good reasons to assume that a considerable portion of those are actual rapes, but let's assume that none of them but the ones who get convicted are actually rapists. That's still 5 times the number who are falsely accused. Your problem is to suggest that this number (but only this number) can be realistically assumed to be significantly inflated. It's a perfect example of cognitive dissonance at work.

Now, let's be more realistic and assume that some of the people in the "rapists" category are actually rapists. Then your argument looks even worse.

Furthermore, you can correct for everything wrong with the infographic (of course, you've wrongly assumed that I approached it uncritically) and it would still make your argument unrealistic:

The Enliven Project's false rape accusations infographic: great intentions, but it isn't accurate.




Of course not. Why the strawman?



Well, here we go with your attitude again. I don't know if I'm great or not, but I'm clearly better with them than you are, judging from our last few exchanges, in which you conveniently ignored factors and were unable to explain your own reasoning.

Here's a few links that address your inflated statistics more in depth:



This doesn't address the study above, but regardless, she's an easily discredited author. Her book about the "war against boys" was easily one of the worst books on male problems in its time. She's not a trained social scientist, though, so it's not surprising that she would fail at writing like one.



This suffers the same problem as your previous link. It addresses literally one, older study as if there's no other information out there.



Similar problems here, but let's be real- this website and its explanation are pathetic. You're smart enough to be posting much better shyt than this.



Ah, a "Christian Perspective." Have you read this? It suggests that statistics used to explain rape are not entirely accurate, but it's unable to prove that the percentage of of false accusations is in any way where you need it to be.

Anyway, posting a flurry of propaganda that muddles the debate is an unfortunate part of your argumentative style. Let's stick to specific points if you want to keep debating.

This entire post just states what you've set out to prove. In any case, the infographic that you've posted is horribly misleading and despite Christina Hoff Summers receiving criticism from her book, you still didn't address the actual arguments in any of the articles.

And really? I'm an atheist myself, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to immediately discount something for coming from a Christian perspective.

Maybe you should do less ad hominem and practice what you preach regarding innocent until proven guilty before you make completely unsubstantiated claims like, "there are good reasons to believe those were indeed rapists!"
 

Zapp Brannigan

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:snoop:

Let's get this straight.

1. Your position is that feminism denies that bad things happen to men

2. Then you turn right around and admit that feminists say that patriarchy hurts men

3. And you believe that a social formation is incapable of constraining or hurting its primary actors? So white supremacy is incapable of hurting white people? nazism never hurt the average german?

Come on, son, you're so much smarter than this on every other topic. Why this bizarre cognitive dissonance? A power relation always involves more than one actor, and each actor is affected by that relation in different ways. White supremacy by definition constrains white people in certain ways.

Jesus Christ. You're really bad at this. I said that "patriarchy hurts men, too" is a lie, I wasn't denying that they made this patronizing, minimizing statement that only vilifies men to an even greater extent for things that they don't have control over.

And stop using the false equivalency regarding race. Sheeze, you even violated Godwin's law. The argument you're making about patriarchy could be used for almost any modern advocacy group for different people.
 
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