The upcoming Class vs. ID Politics/Diversity battle within the DNC

[JahFocus CS]

Jelani Cobb and Ta-Nehisi Coates "Post-election Reflections" at Howard University

Live Stream! Post-election Reflections with Ta-Nehisi Coates and Jelani Cobb – This Wednesday, 7:30pm-9:30pm | WHUT Howard University Television

Thanks for that link brother. The discussion on what a generation owes to its predecessors was interesting as were Coates' thoughts on invoking the idea of "revolution."

 

[Hawaiian Punch]

Jelani Cobb and Ta-Nehisi Coates "Post-election Reflections" at Howard University

Live Stream! Post-election Reflections with Ta-Nehisi Coates and Jelani Cobb – This Wednesday, 7:30pm-9:30pm | WHUT Howard University Television

That was dope. What a time in this world man

 

[Brown_Pride]

@ogc163 @dora_da_destroyer @JahFocus CS @Abogado @Trece

Damn good thoughts in this thread. Half tempted to forward the thread to the DNC so they can figure some shyt out.

 

[Brown_Pride]

That was dope. What a time in this world man

Was this recorded somewhere I can't find a recording of it?

 

[NvrCMyNut]

Ever notice how poc issues are always geared around lowering societal standards of lawful behavior? Idgaf about illegals, crack sentences or any of that shyt, 90% of the electorate want the same shyt.

 

[Serious]

he's a beta male that wouldnt be a threat to the alpha that hillary imagined herself to be

she should have gone with booker

twism with the usual

 

[Trece]

@ogc163 @dora_da_destroyer @JahFocus CS @Abogado @Trece

Damn good thoughts in this thread. Half tempted to forward the thread to the DNC so they can figure some shyt out.

Breh, I have been hoping for this revolution for a while now. Occupy Wall Street had some potential but no direction. They were cleverly infiltrated and co-opted by the democratic elite and became the sell out "occupy democrats" version you see on facebook.

Now we have a real chance to bend the road back in the right direction, but these elitist cacs won't let go easily and someone made a great point, where is the money going to come from?

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

ID politics is a problem for the Dems..but they also largely just run on social issues now and didnt show their worth on other issues. A lot of people already concede that they have won the war on social issues and trump appealed to that because he didnt try to re-litigate that war as vehemantly as other republicans would have. Trump even said he would raise the minimum wage as well.

Another underrated factor is war weariness..Clinton is viewed as a hawk and i think that cost her votes compared to what trump was running on. Bernie wouldnt have had those issues because he is a dove that also appealed to similar trade stances that trump had.

 

[PartyHeart]

The issue isn't that democrats fail to appeal to the white working class, it's that they don't appeal to the entire working class.

The Republican party is even worse for the working class and its really not debatable. So the focus on the Democratic party not appealing to the working class is laughable. Trickle down economics never works for the poor and the working class, and you can bet thats what you're going to see a heavy dose of under a Republican government. Combine that with the destruction of social programs that can at least offset the poverty they inflict, how people are so effectively changing the narrative to pretend the Republicans were better for the working class than the Democrats, even with all their flaws, would have been is mind boggling.

Other than on immigration the Republican party offers literally nothing to the heavily discussed white working class. Yet they voted for Trump in massive numbers and mostly vote Republican every election cycle. It isn't hard to tell why and it has very little to do with the economics of either party.

 

[Brown_Pride]

The Republican party is even worse for the working class and its really not debatable. So the focus on the Democratic party not appealing to the working class is laughable. Trickle down economics never works for the poor and the working class, and you can bet thats what you're going to see a heavy dose of under a Republican government. Combine that with the destruction of social programs that can at least offset the poverty they inflict, how people are so effectively changing the narrative to pretend the Republicans were better for the working class than the Democrats, even with all their flaws, would have been is mind boggling.

Other than on immigration the Republican party offers literally nothing to the heavily discussed white working class. Yet they voted for Trump in massive numbers and mostly vote Republican every election cycle. It isn't hard to tell why and it has very little to do with the economics of either party.

You're comparing reality to perception, actuality to promises.

All politicians lie, republicans are just better at it. So when the working class hears that trickle down works, and they want to believe it works, well then they will vote for it. Poor white people are most dramatically affected by GOP economic policy, why then do they vote against their own best interest? Some point to race, i don't buy that. I know too many not racist people who believe in certain fantasies, e.g. working harder, boot strap pulling, sacrifice now for gains later, self determinism, good vs evil. Republicans have done one hell of a job in regards to framing life and success via these lines of thinking. The reason I blame the Dems for not appealing MORE to the working class this last election is because they ignored the things that were concerns of the white working class in lieu of social issues, when the working class cares mostly about their money. In stepped the republicans.

Democrats had no answer, republicans had AN answer. Not that the GOP answer was right, but they made it a point to have that answer out there and they have had the same "solution" for decades.

TLDR: people don't vote based on reality which makes them susceptible to fairy tales

 

[Brown_Pride]

Breh, I have been hoping for this revolution for a while now. Occupy Wall Street had some potential but no direction. They were cleverly infiltrated and co-opted by the democratic elite and became the sell out "occupy democrats" version you see on facebook.

Now we have a real chance to bend the road back in the right direction, but these elitist cacs won't let go easily and someone made a great point, where is the money going to come from?

Agreed. I think what's lacking from some of these protests is an actual leadership. I can't count how many times I see some idiot posting a "#BLM protesters being violent" type video that just shows some thugs yelling BLM. Their actions aren't a reflection of most BLM supporters. When you have no leadership you can't direct a message as it's subjected to being coopted by anyone with a youtube channel. The problem with leadership is they are susceptible to being bought, a la the occupy wall street movement.

The problem with power is that it tends to attract people who like power, and people who like power are usually pieces of shyt.

 

[No1]

it's hard for me to call it with this current election. i think trump's combination of populism for the white working class paired with 'ism rhetoric/dog whistle politics may have deflected that group, or a portion of that group, permanently. i don't see how the dem coalition hold together such a vast net of people who find one another's ID's annoying


lgbt - conservative latinos, black, and poor whites aren't feeling them
blacks & hispanics - poor whites aint here for these groups (shyt are we even here for each other?)
poor whites - blacks, coastal elites, lgbt, and hispanics (to an extent) aint caping for them and their backward views
the meritocratic elite (six figure coastal libs) may be more centrist so they're not running with fiscal ideals that spoil their riches

so many conflicts of interest in the dem party, it's doable, but dems need an "explain it like i'm 5" campaign to explain how their policies are mutually beneficial.


republicans - will be conservative regardless of faction and no matter what they tell the masses (still can't believe working white bought into "bring the jobs back, stop globalization")

This isn't true at all. Black people have consistently voted Dem even while not caring about gay rights. Those types of issues have never deterred people of color from voting Dem. It's not a concern and most people of color have made peace with LGBT issues even if they don't care about that.

Poor white people are not part of the Democratic coalition. They are more likely to vote Dem than more affluent white people, but working class white men have voted Republican for decades now. The idea is to bring them back. The true cleavage in the Dem Party is between progressives and centrists. That played out in Sanders vs. Clinton. The Clinton team even tried to go get Republicans to replace working class white people and failed.

"and the overratedness of Coates is on display. "We have to ask why the white working class voted for Trump, but the Black people in the same class did not?" Like deadass B?! And it is shyt like that that gets the applause and seen as deep.

This is a bad take. You're more conservative on certain issues so I take it you're not a fan of Coates, but your stance here doesn't make much sense. He was responding to this widespread idea that economic anxiety is the driving factor in what rural white people did and said if that is the case, why did Trump have so little traction with working class people of color? Trump brought out a brand of racist and xenophobic populism that could only apply to one group of people. It was completely straightforward. Moreover, historically it has been these same people that have stopped progressive policies from going forth. Working class white people are literally the reason we don't have a stronger social welfare system and universal healthcare. Whenever there's a choice between economics and race, they have chosen race.

 

[No1]

ID politics is a problem for the Dems..but they also largely just run on social issues now and didnt show their worth on other issues. A lot of people already concede that they have won the war on social issues and trump appealed to that because he didnt try to re-litigate that war as vehemantly as other republicans would have. Trump even said he would raise the minimum wage as well.

Another underrated factor is war weariness..Clinton is viewed as a hawk and i think that cost her votes compared to what trump was running on. Bernie wouldnt have had those issues because he is a dove that also appealed to similar trade stances that trump had.,"

HRC's biggest mistake was mishandling young people and not attempting to peel off some working class votes. 71% of young people voted against you after 60% did it against Obama. This is the most left-leaning generation of all time, and they're predisposed to not believe Democrats. You spent the entire election calling the young women who voted for Sanders boy-crazy, telling them that there is a "special place in hell for them," or that they were sexist, foolish, uninformed, racially-insensitive men. She then immediately moved to the right after getting the nomination? What the fukk did she think was going to happen? Young people do not vote against things, they vote for things.

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

HRC's biggest mistake was mishandling young people and not attempting to peel off some working class votes. 71% of young people voted against you after 60% did it against Obama. This is the most left-leaning generation of all time, and they're predisposed to not believe Democrats. You spent the entire election calling the young women who voted for Sanders boy-crazy, telling them that there is a "special place in hell for them," or that they were sexist, foolish, uninformed, racially-insensitive men. She then immediately moved to the right after getting the nomination? What the fukk did she think was going to happen? Young people do not vote against things, they vote for things.

I agree. That Albright quote lowkey damaged Hillary with women something significant. Same with the woman card thing. A lot of women, including some feminists, didnt want to vote for Hillary just because she was a female. True feminists dont even look at gender, they look at equality.

Ive said it before and ill say it again...other than a more robust argument on economics, she really fukked up by not talking about the environment more. That would have won over a lot of the youth and moderates when in contrast to Trumps campaign. A lot of the younger generation vote almost singularly on the environment and weed. She didnt even bring up marijuana...and my mother, for instance, has the environment as her number one issue..she went from unaffiliated to democrat to support bernie in the primary and ended up voting trump or johnson in the general (didnt say). Hillary needed to win those types over more...instead she didnt really sell anything new and that doomed her..

The democrats can rebound with a strong environmental stance and with a sound repudiation of republican economics. If they dont prioritize these things they dont deserve to win

 

[ogc163]

This isn't true at all. Black people have consistently voted Dem even while not caring about gay rights. Those types of issues have never deterred people of color from voting Dem. It's not a concern and most people of color have made peace with LGBT issues even if they don't care about that.

Poor white people are not part of the Democratic coalition. They are more likely to vote Dem than more affluent white people, but working class white men have voted Republican for decades now. The idea is to bring them back. The true cleavage in the Dem Party is between progressives and centrists. That played out in Sanders vs. Clinton. The Clinton team even tried to go get Republicans to replace working class white people and failed.
This is a bad take. You're more conservative on certain issues so I take it you're not a fan of Coates, but your stance here doesn't make much sense. He was responding to this widespread idea that economic anxiety is the driving factor in what rural white people did and said if that is the case, why did Trump have so little traction with working class people of color? Trump brought out a brand of racist and xenophobic populism that could only apply to one group of people. It was completely straightforward. Moreover, historically it has been these same people that have stopped progressive policies from going forth. Working class white people are literally the reason we don't have a stronger social welfare system and universal healthcare. Whenever there's a choice between economics and race, they have chosen race.

I knew exactly what he meant, I'm not disagreeing with what you wrote for the most part. Given that my initial response was a just a quote and a smiley and you couldn't get much of any "stance" from it, let me flesh out my issue with Coates in that instance and in general.

I have an issue with the racist undertones in white people voting for Trump being juxtaposed with Black people not voting for Trump, and him setting it up as a clear-cut neat comparison. When given the history of the GOP and black people, the history of black people and the democratic party, the geographic variables that overlapped with the racial factors, along with the targeted racist actions/racist perception of the Trump campaign there is evidence that there was more than just a simplistic " Black people are not racist, nationalist, and overly self-interested and therefore didn't buy Trump's bullshyt" at work in the mind of the typical Black voter.

Coates is oversimplifying and attempting to make these neat juxtapositions that don't always fit, it is something I found problematic in IBTWAM.

Spoiler

In the book he discusses the death of his friend in PG County, and in this instance given I know the area well (I currently live in MD) I know the issue of classism amongst the black community in PG is real and it serves as one of the factors in how the police department carries themselves. Here I expected Coates to delve into the internal class dynamics that surrounded those type of situations and the role of the "state" itself in propping up class division, but no he simply writes about how the killing is an extension of white supremacist thought. That is ridiculous and requires a great degree of cognitive dissonance to come to the conclusion that of all variables, white supremacy is the driving force behind the death of a black man at the hands of a black cop in the wealthiest black community in the country.