"There are no real big men in the NBA"

[Draje]

"These centers don't practice their post moves"

"Big men suck now"

We've all heard it but we gotta realize that it has less to do with a lack of skilled big men and more due to the fact that illegal defense was changed in the 02 and zones became legal.

The rule changes meant that big men simply can't dominate the way they used to and it's much harder to get reliable entry passes into the post.

Not only that but it's just much harder to run an offense around a back to the basket big man in today's game because of the change of defense.

It's why the most valuable big men in the league typically operate in the high post (Marc Gasol, Bosh, Dirk, LMA), are great passers (Griffin, Noah, Love, Duncan, Gasol), or are very strong finishers (Howard).

It's why guys like Jefferson, Brooke Lopez, and guys with a good B2B game simply aren't as valuable overall because it's among the easiest thing to defend against when it comes to the playoffs.

http://hoopspeak.com/2012/05/you-cant-just-throw-it-in-the-post/

A good link to talk about what we're talking about.

 

[Broke Wave]

... Duncan is a great back to basket player... yet because he has a good passing ability, hes invalidated from being a real big man? Didn't Shaq win a title after the rule change? What in the world are you talking about? What big man from the 90's and 80's would not get buckets and boards today?

 

[delta]

... Duncan is a great back to basket player... yet because he has a good passing ability, hes invalidated from being a real big man? Didn't Shaq win a title after the rule change? What in the world are you talking about? What big man from the 90's and 80's would not get buckets and boards today?

exactly. their developmental years were in the 80s/90s when teaching post play was a priority

 

[The Goodz]

because MJ killed the myth that you need a "big man" to be dominant. Add that to a more athletic league and big men are very scarce. The only center I see actually trying to keep this relevant is Hibbert and we see how that came about later last season

 

[Draje]

... Duncan is a great back to basket player... yet because he has a good passing ability, hes invalidated from being a real big man? Didn't Shaq win a title after the rule change? What in the world are you talking about? What big man from the 90's and 80's would not get buckets and boards today?

Duncan's skill set was developed in the 90s but his passing and ability to impact the game defensively is why he's still as relevant as he is. Duncan is also respectable in the high post and can space the floor.

Shaq had the benefit of top 3 perimeter players when he was playing (Wade, Kobe) who were such offensive dynamos that it eased some of the growing pains plus the zone wasn't really Being uses the same on 2003.

Star big men would get buckets today but their usage rate would be a lot lower because it's a lot harder to get the ball into the post plus you have a lot less time to score. Rik Smits had a higher USG rate then most big men today.

Back to the basket scoring isn't looked at as important.

Rebounding, finishing around the rim, drawing fouls, or spacing the floor is important offensively which is why a player with an average post game (Dwight) is so damn beastly. It's why Dwight is still the best center in the game because his overall offensive impact is far larger than just his B2B game.

Post play (Alone) simply isn't a priority in today's league unless it's supplemented by great passing (Lebron, Duncan, Dirk). Otherwise, you get Big Al.

A great post scorer that will never lead you anywhere but a first round exit because he has nothing to supplement those abilities.

 

[Draje]

because MJ killed the myth that you need a "big man" to be dominant. Add that to a more athletic league and big men are very scarce. The only center I see actually trying to keep this relevant is Hibbert and we see how that came about later last season

Funny thing about you using Hibbert is he'd actually do BETTER numbers in the 80s and 90s because he'd have a lot more time to establish proper position and he's actually a decently consistent scorer when he's not rushed or swarmed.

His robotic footwork gets exposed because of the speed of the game and how quickly teams can swarm now.

 

[Rekkapryde]

because MJ killed the myth that you need a "big man" to be dominant. Add that to a more athletic league and big men are very scarce. The only center I see actually trying to keep this relevant is Hibbert and we see how that came about later last season

Cheese Eyes was a HUGE exception to the rule. You don't use outliers to define the norm.

 

[Loose]

With the rule changes the nba wants to push a lot more possessions . Don't have time to throw it down low to a barely efficient big man for 20 secs

 

[Originalman]

"These centers don't practice their post moves"

"Big men suck now"

We've all heard it but we gotta realize that it has less to do with a lack of skilled big men and more due to the fact that illegal defense was changed in the 02 and zones became legal.

The rule changes meant that big men simply can't dominate the way they used to and it's much harder to get reliable entry passes into the post.

Not only that but it's just much harder to run an offense around a back to the basket big man in today's game because of the change of defense.

It's why the most valuable big men in the league typically operate in the high post (Marc Gasol, Bosh, Dirk, LMA), are great passers (Griffin, Noah, Love, Duncan, Gasol), or are very strong finishers (Howard).

It's why guys like Jefferson, Brooke Lopez, and guys with a good B2B game simply aren't as valuable overall because it's among the easiest thing to defend against when it comes to the playoffs.

http://hoopspeak.com/2012/05/you-cant-just-throw-it-in-the-post/

A good link to talk about what we're talking about.

Very true Shaq also mentioned this before. Plus with the no hand check rule a big man is more likely to get a call putting the ball on the floor and driving than backing down and posting up. It is similar to the NFL and how all the passing rules has made teams go away from the running game. Why try to run when WRs are open cause DBs can't touch them. Then if a DB touches them when the ball is in the air it is a spot foul and not just a 15 yard penalty like in college.

 

[Originalman]

With the rule changes the nba wants to push a lot more possessions . Don't have time to throw it down low to a barely efficient big man for 20 secs

Same with the NFL and passing. It creates more scoring and more possessions cause the clock doesn't run on incomplete passes.

 

[roxxthe96er]

Due to the fact that illegal defense was changed in the 02 and zones became legal. The rule changes meant that big men simply can't dominate the way they used to and it's much harder to get reliable entry passes into the post.

Preach, this is a bytch even in highschool... Only way a big in the NBA will ever dominate again is if they are also the MVP.

 

[954UAlreadyknow]

Stop making excuses for these bums.


Big men today aint dominanting today because they trash. Put the 90's big men in 2014 they would score at will damn near

 

[Niggthaniel Essex]

Mutumbo
Ewing
David Robinson
Hakeem
Shaq
Mourning

All played in the same damn era. I was so spoiled.

These centers now would get obliterated just by the power forwards of the 90s

 

[FTBS]

I am not about to summarily dismiss the impact of zones or defenses or entry passes but we can't summarily dismiss the impact of fundamentals and mental toughness as well. If nobody was able to get on the block and beast then I might be more inclined to accept that explanation but you still got Duncan and Dirk's old asses doin work. You got perimeter guys like Bron, Kobe, Melo, even Wade taking guys down in the post and going to work. KD is steadily working towards being able to do so. Desire, heart, and skill >>>>> any excuse you want to make.

 

[The_Third_Man]

The current state of big men is underrated. Davis, Cousins, Gasol, Noah, Dwight, Lopez, Jefferson, Drummond, Horfod are all good/great big men and most of them haven't even reached their potential yet. Then you have Embiid, Okafor, Karl Town, Noel, and Myles Turner on the come up.

thats not a bad group of big men at all. At least better than it was in the early/mid 00s.