@TheworldIsMine13 where exactly do you stand on Immigration?

[Pressure]

What part of legal immigration is it that you don't understand?

legal immigration is good, illegal immigration is bad

this is true to certain extent, now that ive shytted on mexicans i think its time to shyt on black people, its true the real problem in the black community is not illegal immigration its the low level of education cuz black people that are educated can do well in california

but in the real world black people are stuck in the low end and along with poor whites and they do feel the effects of illegal immigration a lot more than white liberals and republican businessmen who are pushing for amnesty

this is a good example of illegals stealing jobs in the bay
Pacific Steel forced to lay off 200 workers due to ICE raid | abc7news.com

now im not gonna knock the hustle too much cuz i think if anything black people should take notes, what happens in places like this and ive seen it happen a lot is that a few mexicans get in and the hr manager or some low level manager are also hispanic and using word of mouth pretty soon the only people hired are mexican legals and illegal, and the whole whole work place is speaking more spanish than english and pretty much black and white workers cant get in, and the hr person and management turn a blind eye as long as the job gets done and profits are coming in

thats why im not down with amnesty, or cosign an invasion, under amnesty all those 200 people would have just stayed and the blacks in the bay area who are job hunting would not have any chance of getting these decent jobs that dont require education

but again i have to acknowledge the real problem is education but illegal immigration doesnt help and also the reason why tech companies need h1b visas is that blacks and latinos are not being educated at a high enough rate to go for tech jobs

But then you made a quick heel turn!

i just quoted you a study that shows that immigrants and h1b workers lower wages and you are asking me to prove it, are you dense?

there are many factors that effect wages, immigration is one of them, spare me with these absolutes

I don't support trump, never have, but any black person that supports illegal immigration or h1b is dumb

The only type of immigration any black person should support is legal immigration from Africa and the black Caribbean

I HEARD THESE EXIST TO FLOOD THE MARKET WITH CODE MONKEYS AND DRIVE ENTRY LEVEL WAGES DOWN, BROTHER!

i thought that was what the h1b program was doing

Yeah skill based

The h1b program is and has been abused, the majority of the visas go to a couple of Indian contracting firms

the h1b needs to be reformed, that is something that both parties agree on

Yeah it is horrifying, it's a sign that there is a large population of people that lack basic English skills

What is even more horrifying is the spread of job ads for low wage and entry level jobs that say bilingual preferred

What exactly am I suppose to get out of that list?

I didn't say Canada's language has to do with immigration

I was pointing out that bilingualism has caused a lack of social cohesion that culminated in Canada almost breaking apart

 

[Serious]

Let's not forget his Hispanic gf
Wonder how she would feel about some of these post

 

[Pressure]

You also said this:

Immigration Is a Natural Right - Reason.com

Immigration Is a Natural Right

 

[theworldismine13]

Yo what in the fuk is wrong with you?

What is the contradiction in anything I said?

Why are you obsessed with the God Emperor?

 

[Meta Reign]

*sees no contradictions.*

 

[theworldismine13]

You also said this:



Immigration Is a Natural Right

Yeah, and?

 

[theworldismine13]

Let's not forget his Hispanic gf
Wonder how she would feel about some of these post

Stop feeding the animals

 

[Meta Reign]

You also said this:



Immigration Is a Natural Right

Immigration is a natural right. . . Meaning no country should have a zero immigrant policy. I would say that's a violation of people's right to travel. HOW or even when they choose to do so is up to governing bodies.

 

[Pressure]

well its an interesting topic, in essence he is saying white americans should not be worried about slowly becoming a minority and losing the essence of what made america great, because the superior will eventually dominate, just like greek culture won over roman culture, american culture (freedom and indivdualism) will win out over any culture that comes into the US because american culture is superior

he is basically responding to this school of thought The Hispanic Challenge - By Samuel P. Huntington | Foreign Policy

i agree with the the first guy but i kinda also agree with huntington in that bilingualism in the us is a bad thing, i think immigration is good but it has to be diverse immigration, it cant just be an influx of the same type of people

here we go....
Define american culture? Individualism and freedom?

GTFOH. We haven't had this dance in a long time. Your definition of "american culture" has always been some pie in the sky idealistic, unrealistic, "made for a tee-shirt" slogan.

For starters teh guy in your article is comparing changing opinion on from a geocentric to heliocentric like there was some "choice" in the matter. Facts dictated the change in this paradigm, not choice. People didn't decide "imply because" that they would believe the sun was the center of the universe, it became common knowledge. Yes it did effect some of the beliefs, but the illusion of choice is false in his example...just saying...

What's funny is he says, "It was greek ideas not culture" but then says, "It’s rational advocates—not numbers—that bring ideas into effect." really failing to admit that NUMBERS ARE RATIONAL.

He touts england's "freedom" during the 1820 but fails to mention slavery wasn't abolished until 1833.

I do agree that an attempt to limit immigration out of fear that it'll change is dumb. Change brings about good things when cultures collide...eventually. It's an evolutionary process of sorts, survival of the fittest (so i agree to a degree). I don't think it's "freedom and individuality" that define american culture, those two things exist in many, many parts of the world, even in those where we see a lot of immigrants migrating to the USA.

Let's also not leave out the sheer ignorance in his account of belief. He's basically pushing an extremely simplified form of rational choice theory that doesn't measure up to the facts. If most people are rational, then are the stats that are biased against him also products of that rationality? What we're left with is a situation where rationality is a meaningless term, since all decisions must be its products, even though the majority of people don't necessarily accept what he would call the most "rational" of the choices presented to them, or a situation where rationality doesn't explain choices fully. Let's take a look at this foolishness:



This is a laughable point. In a place, say, rural Pakistan, where media access is rare and the society is overwhelmingly homogenous, does a child have the choice to reject what they are told from their earliest days as a thinking being? They have little access to alternative ideas, no way of empirically testing many of the ideas that are transmitted to them, etc. If this situation can be called a situation of choice (which it must, in the author's scenario, where "not a single one of us" doesn't ultimately choose our beliefs) then we are left with the problem of explaining how this rationality leads to entire communities believing in things that are markedly untrue, untested, and well, irrational, even in the face of facts to the contrary. The overwhelming majority of people raised in a particular religion, for example, remain within it, so the idea that demographics mean little doesn't even require much to disprove. Another way to put it is to ask if Eve made a rational choice to be with Adam- the author wants you to believe that she did.

This crosses over to this next point:



So why does half of America still not believe in evolution? Why does at least a 3rd of the population believe that Obama is a Muslim? Why do so many people vote on scenarios involving fictions like "death panels" and "socialism?" We're a country with no shortage of access to all the information needed to make a thoroughly informed choice, and yet people are not swayed by evidence. In other words, if the author responds to my Pakistan scenario by stating that if there was more access to information, the choices of the people to believe would change, well, the case of America provides a serious challenge to that simplistic claim. Once again, the problem is that the author is either forced to claim that the half of America that doesn't believe in evolution made their choices rationally, or that rationality is much more complicated, and not alone or even necessarily the dominant factor in determining belief.

You can define American culture anyway you want, that's just the way I chose to define in reference to the article

The evidence for heliocentric theory vs geocentric was not obvious, it took literally centuries to debunk using piecemeal evidence, it is only in hind site that heliocentric theory is obvious

I
In the same way, it's not clear that freedom and individualism produces more benefits to a society, some people beleive these things are irrelevant, this article assumes that the reader already agrees that freedom and individualism are important and contributed the the growth of america

So that is why the heliocentric vs geocentric analogy is appropriate, as we speak there is an ongoing argument about the importance of individual freedom in developing a society

As to the slavery issue i dont think it invalidates the importance of freedom and individualism, there were a lot of countries that engaged in slavery and did noy reach the economic level of the us or england

Would say even though freedom and liberty was not extended to everybody in England and the us, relative to other countries of white people england and the us provided more freedom and liberty than other comparable countries, so it does provide an explanation for the rise of the uk and the us

Your last paragraph is silly, you are saying the samething the author said

most places that have freedom and liberty have it because of the influence of america and the UK

Your whole premise is flawed, based on the fact that there are large swaths of Americans who aren't free, and that American foreign policy is still very oppressive depending on where one is in the world

You can keep spewing the same garbage day in and day out but its still garbage + untrue

i agree that the concepts of liberty and individual freedom are superior and should be the basis of society




again, you can define American culture anyway you want because there are different aspects to it

but the important think is that people can sit around and argue about it, that is why freedom and liberty are important, the fact that your rant is basically about the violation of individual freedom is basically an endorsement of the concept of individual freedom and the reality that the concept of individual freedom has been carried forward by the UK and the US

i dont defend white racism but i do give props to american culture for being on of the first people to institutionalize the ideas of individual freedom, and that laid the foundation for the expansion of individual freedom to other groups besides white men with property

ok can we destroy this addition by subtraction shyt that is so prevalent with definitions

If American culture is the sum of different aspects, then defining it by one aspect DOES NOT COMPLETE THE DEFINITION.

All you've done is define the aspect that YOU personally identify with. But that's a part of the whole. That's what I don't think white ppl, seem to understand.

im responding/agreeing to the article, by bashing the article or the Gawd Emperor, do you guys actually understand what you are bashing?

i think yall forgetting what the point of the article is, its basically saying immigration is good and the decline of white people is irrelevant, america would still be a rich powerful country, the article was basically applying Darwinian principles to culture, the parts of american culture that are superior will survive no matter who comes to the country, and the parts that aren't will come to an end

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with the idea that immigration is good. Most folks have been arguing that the stated reasons seem trumped up. And that there are better arguments to be made.

I just think what I find unsettling about all these discussions, is how it seems like white folks are now "allowing" us to define American culture. It's like "oh well yeah y'all proved you care about the election process....I guess America is now yours."

 

[theworldismine13]

Immigration is a natural right. . . Meaning no country should have a zero immigrant policy. I would say that's a violation of people's right to travel. HOW or even when they choose to do so is up to governing bodies.

I explained the caveats in that same thread, I don't know why this clown didn't post the quote

Shout out to @Slaimon Khan Shah btw

 

[Pressure]

Hrmm...

well free movement of labor means you dont need a visa, free movement of labor means you can just go whenever or wherever you feel like it, of course you can get a work visa to mexico, just like anybody can get a visa to the US if they jump through the proper hoops but that isnt free movement of labor

if there is an overall plan to create a free labor market in the americas, im down for that, but im not down for simply the us legalizing illegal, thats just a further distortion of the market

how did immigration turn into a discussion of socialism? ive never been opposed to social spending on health care and education you're confusing me with somebody else but either way that isnt related to immigration

You're for upon borders above, but then you're against it below.

Why would you think that? Most people here are for open borders and amnesty becuase that is the liberal view of things but in reality most people don't care cuz they don't think immigration effects them

 

[Pressure]

Earlier you said you support all legal immigration, then you blamed immigration for Americans not having summer jobs:

Drop in Summer Work for Teenagers Linked to Increased Immigration

 

[714562]

Immigration is a natural right. . . Meaning no country should have a zero immigrant policy. I would say that's a violation of people's right to travel. HOW or even when they choose to do so is up to governing bodies.

That's not what the Reason articles says.

"f I want to invite my cousins from Florence, Italy, to come here and live in my house and work on my farm in New Jersey, or if a multinational corporation wants the best engineers from India to work in its labs in Texas, or if my neighbor wants a friend of a friend from Mexico City to come here to work in his shop, we have the natural right to ask, they have the natural right to come here, and the government has no moral right to interfere with any of these freely made decisions."

 

[Pressure]

That's not what the Reason articles says.

This is largely what I'm getting at. I'm one post he's supporting completely open borders like the one above.

Then another post he's saying only Afrikans should be allowed to migrate.

Then another he says legal immigration is okay.

Then blames H1B workers (legal) are problematic and Lower wages and take jobs.

Then you say immigration isn't a problem at all, illegal or otherwise, but instead it's low education for blacks. A view I might add, you call me a c00n for having that it turns out you have yourself.

 

[theworldismine13]

Hrmm...



You're for upon borders above, but then you're against it below.

Yeah I said that if open borders can work but you would need to have the same labor laws

So for example Americans would have the legal right to get a job in Mexico and vice versa, with similar benefits

Under those circumstances open borders are ok, I explained that in the thread

Are you retarded?