This is how it ends: Bernie proposes $15T tax increase, including increase on middle class

FAH1223

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Because I have empathy, not all of us subscribe to being your typical selfish American. Plus life can change at the drop of a hat. Just because you don't need those things now doesn't mean you won't need those things down the road. Besides improving the life of all citizens and not just the rich will only help improve the country. I don't understand why that's such a hard concept for people to understand.

It's time to try something different in order to get this country to take the next step. Improvements in education, making healthcare affordable and fixing our crumbling infrastructure as well as making corporations that have taking this countries political system hostage actually pay into this country instead skirting taxes is a step in the right direction.

what's funny is the Wall Street bailouts cost way more than this tax plan
From 2009
Behind The Real Size of the Bailout

2011

Bernanke's Obfuscation Continues: The Fed's $29 Trillion Bail-Out Of Wall Street

2015:

The Big Bank Bailout

Most people think that the big bank bailout was the $700 billion that the treasury department used to save the banks during the financial crash in September of 2008. But this is a long way from the truth because the bailout is still ongoing. The Special Inspector General for TARP summary of the bailout says that the total commitment of government is $16.8 trillion dollars with the $4.6 trillion already paid out. Yes, it was trillions not billions and the banks are now larger and still too big to fail. But it isn’t just the government bailout money that tells the story of the bailout. This is a story about lies, cheating, and a multi-faceted corruption which was often criminal.

• Rating agencies- Rating agencies like Standard and Poor’s are paid by the banks (which is a conflict of interest) and have a huge influence on the ratings of securities. During the housing bubble ratings agencies continued to give triple AAA ratings to toxic mortgages. The justice department wants $5 billion in restitution from Standard and Poor’s for its part in falsifying ratings.

• Money laundering – It has been proven that the American Division of the HSBC bank did money laundering for Mexican drug cartels to the tune of $881 billion according to the Justice Department. The penalty to this bank for blatant corruption was $1.9 billion and the New York Times laments that HSBC was too big to indict. Nobody goes to jail at a time when an unemployed black person gets 10 years for robbing a minute mart.

• Betting Against – Both JP Morgan Chase and Goldman Sachs worked with hedge funds to bet against the toxic mortgages after the crash had started. They made money by selling short on the financial catastrophe they had created. JP Morgan was fined $296.9 million and Goldman Sachs was fined $550 million for actions

• Insider Trading –The jailed billionaire Raj Rajartmn made nearly $One million a minute by getting inside information from Goldman Schs. The New York attorney has fingered 70 hedge funds but the prosecution is very slow.

The operating principles of the big banks is a cesspool of greed, ethics and criminal intent and they give a very bad name to free market capitalism. During the housing bubble Wall street was considered the heart and soul of free market capitalism, but when they were in danger of total collapse they fell on their knees as socialists, begging the government and tax payers to bail them out

Many people have asked why the government bailed them out. Isn’t capitalism designed to get rid of the weak and the failed; so why didn’t we just let them fail? The answer was that they were too big to fail and allowing them to fail could have created a worldwide depression. . In fact, in a meeting with Congress on September 18th, 2008. Treasury Secretary Paulson told the members that $5.5 trillion in wealth could disappear by 2pm of that day. In a meeting with Senator Sherrod Brown, Secretary Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said, “we need $700 billion and we need it in 3 days.”

So how did this all happen?

1933 – The Glass –Stiegel Act regulated interest rates, established deposit insurance, and erected a wall between commercial and investment banking by restricting the former from engaging in non-banking activities like securities and insurance.

1978 – A successful legal challenge to the state usury laws and the massive promotion of credit cards by the banks led to dramatic growth of credit card debt by consumers.

1979 – Pension regulation was loosened which created a new market for speculation and the capital to feed it.

1980 – Investors fled conventional interest bearing accounts to alternatives such as money market, venture capital and hedge funds which were lightly regulated.

1982- Congress passed the Garn-St. Germaine Depository Institution Act which deregulated the Savings and Loan industry. This led to speculation with other people’s money and a crisis which would cost the taxpayer $201 billion. The deregulation of interest rates at conventional banks also led to elimination of bank net-worth, accounting standards, and loan to value ratio requirements.

1999-Republican Phil Gramm successfully led the effort that repealed most of the Glass-Stiegel Act, which was a depression era law that kept Commercial Banking and Investment separated.

2000- Only a year later Gramm inserted the new Commodity Futures Modernization Act into a must pass budget bill that rocketed through the Congress. One part of this bill would prohibit the regulation of Derivatives which allowed finance gurus to leverage and speculate with other people’s money. By using derivatives, credit default swaps and other unregulated financial instruments the big banks were able to chop up and resell loans and mortgages as repackaged securities or derivatives. The new securitization became globalized and eventually affected the world economy

After the creation of new financial tools (like credit default swaps and derivatives) as well as more access to everybody’s money; the banks began to do high risk gambling just like a big casino. The new financial tools were backed by the government so that taxpayers would get hung with the bill.

2007 – The speculation and lack of effective regulation eventually led to the crash of 2008 and The Great Recession. The industry is not afraid to do it again because they know no one goes to jail and the government will bail them out.

Why didn’t more people know that the bailout had climbed into the trillions?

In an article Secrets and Lies of the Bailout, Matt Taibbi says “It was all a lie – one of the biggest and most elaborate falsehoods ever sold to the American people. We were told that the taxpayer was stepping in – only temporarily, mind you – to prop up the economy and save the world from financial catastrophe. What we actually ended up doing was the exact opposite: committing American taxpayers to permanent, blind support of an ungovernable, unregulatable, hyper concentrated new financial system that exacerbates the greed and inequality that caused the crash, and forces Wall Street banks like Goldman Sachs and Citigroup to increase risk rather than reduce it.

After the original $700 billion bailout, the ongoing bailout was kept very secret because Chairman Ben Bernanke, argued that revealing borrower details would create a stigma — investors and counterparties would shun firms that used the central bank as lender of last resort. In fact, $7.7 trillion of the secret emergency lending was only disclosed to the public after Congress forced a one-time audit of the Federal Reserve in November of 2011. After the audit the public found out the bailout was in trillions not billions; and that there were no requirements attached to the bailout money – the banks could use it for any purpose.


The big got even bigger.
 
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Yes, and I make a little less than 200k after bonus.

I pay back 1400 a month in taxes combining undergrad and law school. I graduated owing 120k (the average for law school graduates). My rent is over 2000 a month. And I definitely live a very comfortable life. fukk is you doing? Trying to live like me with half my salary? My boys who lived in NYC before I got here and make less than 6 figures knew not to overdo it. Most of them had roommates. "I" have a roommate from law school. I have no idea what you're talking about with these supposed struggles.

@NaijaProdigy Redux please tell dude that you do not need to make 250k a year in NYC to be "barely" middle class. I'm not saying that is rich, but this nikka is acting like we out here in that line hustling for that 15 dollar minimum wage.

The average lawyer (under 45) does not make a little less than 200k.

It's pipe dream law school students are sold - I know a CAC lawyer working in IP making the same money as me and he's 5 years older than me.

Busted his ass went to a high quality school in the Midwest known nationwide (i forget the name now). But he working in NYC for peanuts and owe a lot more than you do.

Your reality is warped and you're not the rule, you're the exception.

Law or Medicine doesn't guarantee you middle class lifestyle. You got to hustle and be lucky in those as well. I consult for an Eye surgeon who is of Jewish-Arab descent. Now this guy is pulling in 250k+ mainly because he's connected.
 

Perfectson

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why aren't you down with that? if I'm putting together a plan that will help a lot of people. and in the end MOST of us will actually come out on top financially. why are you so against college or anything else in his plan?

to keep saying we need to fix this or that. we know this. but we know that takes time. there are so many hands in the jar it will take a decade or so to get them out. nothing Bernie or Hillary does could stop it over night. but free college could actually take place over night. free healthcare could take place over night. okaying big time infrastructure projects could happen over night.

We need help RIGHT NOW. not tomorrow. but NOW.

now while we're getting help. do you really think a dude like Bernie that keeps banging on companies that cheat the system, wouldn't get at some colleges who have ridiculous cost they should not have? of course he would. but guess what, he would have something fighting against them. FREE COLLEGE. see before we didn't have an alternative, now we do.

Show me how you're gonnna ccome out on top financially? There's going to be some underpaid fry servers at McDonald?

You don't get it, new jobs aren't going to magically appear because you have another degree! You do know the professional world has changed, where it was once was required to have an AS or BS, you have to have an Masters now...due to the limit of jobs and saturation of education.

Tell me you don't get where this is headed.

You either need a true gloval economy, where these 3rd world nations take over all cheap labor annd America becomes where all the corporations and middle/top management reside...you still wonkt have enough jobs to go around. People need to face facts...this is why Spain, UK, France have huge presences in other countries job markets.
 

Perfectson

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The average lawyer (under 45) does not make a little less than 200k.

It's pipe dream law school students are sold - I know a CAC lawyer working in IP making the same money as me and he's 5 years older than me.

Busted his ass went to a high quality school in the Midwest known nationwide (i forget the name now). But he working in NYC for peanuts and owe a lot more than you do.

Your reality is warped and you're not the rule, you're the exception.

Law or Medicine doesn't guarantee you middle class lifestyle. You got to hustle and be lucky in those as well. I consult for an Eye surgeon who is of Jewish-Arab descent. Now this guy is pulling in 250k+ mainly because he's connected.

;
Go to law school. Rack up debt. Make $62,000


education is outpacing the actual return you get with the degree. education shouldn't be free, it just needs to be capped out somehow.
 

Entrapta310

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b.b.b.b.b.but bernie grew up "poor" in a RENT CONTROLLED apartment. :francis:
his parents didnt make money even though their rent was LOW.

:francis:


then he grew up not to work??

this man has good intentions, BUT as he said.... he needs to RAISE 15 trillion.

and the only way to do that is democratic socialism and raising EVERYONES taxes???


:mjcry:
 

Dr. Acula

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i don't think anyone would argue that the bailouts were a good thing here. But using this as an argument to swallow the Bernie tax plan is like saying just because you were raped once you should be less against being raped a second time. :yeshrug:
 

Ethnic Vagina Finder

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All I know is this,

With if my taxes go up, the take home pay percentage I lose is more than my yearly pay raise, so I would be like I'm taking a pay cut or demotion. :mjpls:

And it's easy to force businesses to pay more taxes, but how do you expecting to have the same productivity and quality?
 

FAH1223

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i don't think anyone would argue that the bailouts were a good thing here. But using this as an argument to swallow the Bernie tax plan is like saying just because you were raped once you should be less against being raped a second time. :yeshrug:

Umm... this tax plan actually helps the people, it doesn't do corporate welfare so it isn't being raped at all as people are saving cash in the end.
 

Red Shield

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this guy usually says stupid and idiotic things, but he's on point for once.

we have a immigration/population issue and making us into a welfare state is only going to further that.

We need to get impoverished people into more vocational jobs like farming, picking oranges, building shyt, cleaning up their communities, community policing etc etc. Instead of letting them live on the government teet scotch free. Bernie hustling backwards, needs to just approve slave reparations, be done with it, and start promoting healthy capitalistic state.


:mjpls:
 

Dr. Acula

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Umm... this tax plan actually helps the people, it doesn't do corporate welfare so it isn't being raped at all as people are saving cash in the end.
Most of the savings you guys posted are on the basis that Bernie's plans for college and healthcare would be implemented as is. Correct me if I'm wrong and you guys referenced something else.

Why should someone have confidence that those savings are going to appear however when like I said, ACA which is less radical was only a shadow of what it was initially after being gutted and modified to just get it passed? How would we get single payer and universal free college through our current system?

I don't think you guys convinced me that this is something that will ever come into fruition.

Not trying to be a dikk, just wondering because the only argument that I've seen as far as critique of this report is that it doesn't account for savings and I think the report even said as much which is a fair criticism
or did it examine whether, for some taxpayers, the value of Sanders’s new government benefits would outstrip the cost of his tax increases.

“We do not account for the effects of the new government programs on income,” said Burman. “We focused on the tax side, and we’re not really experts on the spending component.”
but again...what guarantee that these savings will materialize, especially in a diverse congress?

You guys are probably much more financially literate than I am so I'm genuinely asking for some education on the matter and to address the concerns I stated above.
 
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Dr. Acula

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The top 1 percent of earners would bear 38 percent of the total tax increase proposed by Sanders, according to the analysis, while those in the top fifth of incomes would pay 68 percent of his levies.

That top quintile, which includes those earning more than $142,000, would see its taxes go up by an average $44,759. Those at the very bottom of the income ladder would see their taxes go up by $165 while those in the second quintile of incomes — between $23,000 and $45,000 — would pay an additional $1,625.
Click to expand...
I have people in my family that have incomes in the quintile and above. To add on my post above for more questions, what are the exact numbers that counteract the 44,759 increase? What is the savings for that population and how much of a savings does it result in?

Again, not asking in a confrontation tone, as just inquiring for information.


bernietax_Fam.png


I have family members in the top 4% who are self-employed. According to to this article arguing in favor of Bernie's plan, you're asking them to eat another 21,585 dollars in taxes. The savings doesn't benefit them. 402K isn't billionaire or millionaire range obviously and its not only an income enjoyed by selfish money burning individuals.

I'm also not buying these are the savings numbers we will see. The TPC which is a much more substantially staffed then this Datatian blog I imagined even stated they were stretched in providing estimates of Bernie's tax plans given how drastic an overhaul it would result in.
 
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rapbeats

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Show me how you're gonnna ccome out on top financially? There's going to be some underpaid fry servers at McDonald?

You don't get it, new jobs aren't going to magically appear because you have another degree! You do know the professional world has changed, where it was once was required to have an AS or BS, you have to have an Masters now...due to the limit of jobs and saturation of education.

Tell me you don't get where this is headed.

You either need a true gloval economy, where these 3rd world nations take over all cheap labor annd America becomes where all the corporations and middle/top management reside...you still wonkt have enough jobs to go around. People need to face facts...this is why Spain, UK, France have huge presences in other countries job markets.
ask em if doubt anything you just said. i dont. ask bernie if he doesnt agree with you. he does.

listen to what bernie is saying. he said out of his own mouth that a college degree in 2016 is the equivalent of a highschool diploma in 1950 and here's why.

In the 1950s and 1960s, it was possible to graduate from high school and move right into a decent-paying job with good benefits. Strong unions offered apprenticeships, and a large manufacturing sector provided opportunities for those without an advanced degree. A couple with a sole breadwinner could buy a home, raise a family and send their kids to college. That was the American dream. Unfortunately, today, for too many Americans, it’s not a possibility.

Ask me is public highschool free for americans today? YES. SO if what bernie is saying is all facts. is it true then that we would just be moving our free school up to the point where it actually should be in todays job climate correct?

if high school in 1950 = enough money to buy a home with a car and support a small family. and high school was free.

shouldnt public college(state/JC's) be free too in 2016, if a college degree can provide you the same as the HS diploma from above. what can a HS diploma do for you today in comparison to the 50's? we all know JUst a HS diploma/GED aint doing ish for you unless you go into business for yourself. and dont say certs. certs is the equivalent of a trade/trade school/ a year or two in a Junior College. so dont go there.

Lets break it down

In 1877, Rutherford B. Hayes became the first president to make a strong case for universally available public education. “Universal suffrage should rest upon universal education,” he said in his inaugural address, adding that “liberal and permanent provision should be made for the support of free schools.” Hayes, a Republican, didn’t worry that some poor kid might benefit from access to “free stuff,” nor did he believe that the children of wealthy elites should be excluded from the universal nature of the program. For him, education was the basis for full economic and political participation, and full participation was the basis for all prosperity. An education should be available to all regardless of anyone’s station.

Today, there is universal access to free, public schools across the United States for kindergarten through 12th grade. That didn’t happen by presidential decree. It took populist pressure from the progressive movement, beginning in the 1890s, to make widespread access to free public schools a reality. By 1940, half of all young people were graduating from high school. As of 2013, that number was 81 percent. But that achievement is no longer enough. A college degree is the new high school diploma.

An important pathway to the middle class now runs through higher education, but rising costs are making it harder and harder for ordinary Americans to get the education they want and need. In 1978, it was possible to earn enough money to pay for a year of college tuition just by working a summer job that paid minimum wage. Today, it would take a minimum wage worker an entire year to earn enough to cover the annual in-state tuition at a public university. And that’s why so many bright young people don’t go to college, don’t finish or graduate deeply in debt. With $1.3 trillion in student loans, Americans are carrying more student debt than credit card or auto-loan debt. That’s a tragedy for our young people and for our nation.


It may seem hard to believe, but there was a time when higher education was pretty close to free in this country, at least for many Americans. After World War II, the GI Bill gave free education to more than 2 million veterans, many of whom would otherwise never have been able to go to college. This benefited them, and it was good for the economy and the country, too. In fact,scholars say that this investment was a major reason for the high productivity and economic growth our nation enjoyed during the postwar years. And, in certain states, such as California and New York, tuition was so low that college was practically free for much of the 20th century. That is no longer the case in America, but free college is still a priority in many parts of the world.

In Finland, Denmark, Ireland, Iceland, Norway, Sweden and Mexico, public colleges and universities remain tuition-free. They’re free throughout Germany, too, and not just for Germans or Europeans but for international citizens as well. That’s why every year, more than 4,600 students leave the United States and enroll in German universities. For a token fee of about $200 per year, an American can earn a degree in math or engineering from one of the premier universities in Europe. Governments in these countries understand what an important investment they are making, not just in the individuals who are able to acquire knowledge and skills but for the societies these students will serve as teachers, architects, scientists, entrepreneurs and more.
 

rapbeats

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oh and some more for those that say they want a break on their current loans.

Bernie Sanders on Education

Look at college degree like high school diploma 50 years ago
Q: You want to make public college free altogether?
SANDERS: Germany and many other countries do it already. In fact, if you remember, 50, 60 years ago, the University of California, City University of New York were virtually tuition-free. This is revolutionary for education in America. It will give hope to millions of young people.

Q: And you want to have the states pay for about 1/3 of this $70 billion plan, correct?

SANDERS: Yes. Bottom line here is, in the year 2015, we should look at a college degree the same way we looked at a high school degree 50 or 60 years ago. If you want to make it into the middle class, the bottom line now, is in America, in the year 2015, any person who has the ability and the desire should be able to get an education, college education, regardless of the income of his or her family. And we must substantially lower, as my legislation does, interest rates on student debt.
 
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