Time isn't real

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

ok so...let's clarify a few things first
by a photon retaining information you mean the post interaction or source energy profile? (bounced of a planet or came from a star eg...)

http://phys.org/news/2013-09-scientists-never-before-seen.html

This was the experiment i was referring to.

this is another interesting one:

Indeed, light is this funky mixture of classical and quantum phenomenon, exhibiting properties of both waves and particles. This is great for engineers who wish to exploit these anti-social attributes, allowing them to create such things as optical fibre cables that stretch for miles. But it's a constraint if you want to transmit information through secure quantum channels, or for building optical gates. This latest breakthrough could change that.
A team of researchers at the University of Vienna created a strong interaction between two photons by using an ultra-thin glass fibre. The interaction was so strong that the phase of the photons was altered by 180 degrees.

"It is like a pendulum, which should actually swing to the left, but due to coupling with a second pendulum, it is swinging to the right. There cannot be a more extreme change in the pendulum's oscillation", noted study co-author Arno Rauschenbeutel in a statement. "We achieve the strongest possible interaction with the smallest possible intensity of light."

So the interpretation of photon nature before and post interaction has been shown to be potentially different than what was accepted as true for years.

They can interact with each other and possibly hold information as soon as projected from its source via their path of travel. Being able to create matter and also showing strong interaction under extreme circumstances in experiments here also opens the door to re-examine their nature in space since, obviously, there can be extreme circumstances at a distance that we may or may not be currently aware of. If they are truly traveling at light speed (makes sense but maybe they travel at varying speeds depending on the given circumstance (?)) and can show interaction with one another as well as having the potential to create matter..it is safe to say that they can and do hold information with or without being manipulated by human experiment...and it is further generally accepted that traveling at light speed..in an anthropomorphic sense..that they then also do not experience "time".

Does that make any sense? (legit question..wondering if my assumptions are off-base here)

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

and fwiw..my original op here was more in a philosophical/metaphysical sense not backed by science

 

[tmonster]

http://phys.org/news/2013-09-scientists-never-before-seen.html

This was the experiment i was referring to.

this is another interesting one:

So the interpretation of photon nature before and post interaction has been shown to be potentially different than what was accepted as true for years.

They can interact with each other and possibly hold information as soon as projected from its source via their path of travel. Being able to create matter and also showing strong interaction under extreme circumstances in experiments here also opens the door to re-examine their nature in space since, obviously, there can be extreme circumstances at a distance that we may or may not be currently aware of. If they are truly traveling at light speed (makes sense but maybe they travel at varying speeds depending on the given circumstance (?)) and can show interaction with one another as well as having the potential to create matter..it is safe to say that they can and do hold information with or without being manipulated by human experiment...and it is further generally accepted that traveling at light speed..in an anthropomorphic sense..that they then also do not experience "time".

Does that make any sense? (legit question..wondering if my assumptions are off-base here)

I think I heard the researcher of this experiment on NPR this weekend, will read after I eat lunch and get back to you

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

I think I heard the researcher of this experiment on NPR this weekend, will read after I eat lunch and get back to you

Cool, no rush. Heading into work at the moment anyway. Ill check back in when i can.

 

[BaggerofTea]

Time is indeed a social construct.

How else would we define the concept of "eventuality"

 

[tmonster]

http://phys.org/news/2013-09-scientists-never-before-seen.html

This was the experiment i was referring to.

this is another interesting one:

So the interpretation of photon nature before and post interaction has been shown to be potentially different than what was accepted as true for years.

They can interact with each other and possibly hold information as soon as projected from its source via their path of travel. Being able to create matter and also showing strong interaction under extreme circumstances in experiments here also opens the door to re-examine their nature in space since, obviously, there can be extreme circumstances at a distance that we may or may not be currently aware of. If they are truly traveling at light speed (makes sense but maybe they travel at varying speeds depending on the given circumstance (?)) and can show interaction with one another as well as having the potential to create matter..it is safe to say that they can and do hold information with or without being manipulated by human experiment...and it is further generally accepted that traveling at light speed..in an anthropomorphic sense..that they then also do not experience "time".

Does that make any sense? (legit question..wondering if my assumptions are off-base here)

I don't see how photonic interaction relates photons being timeless information carriers, Further in the all the experiments you mention involve photons being slowed, so....I don't want us to get in the weeds

Let's start with this what do YOU mean by information? can you give a practical example that would describe "your" photon delivering said information?

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

@tmonster

From a Yale study (similar studies done elsewhere as well):

Photons can carry and hold quantum information for a long time, because they interact weakly with the media they typically travel through — coaxial cables, wires, or air, for example. The weakness of these interactions prevents the photons from being absorbed by the medium and preserves the quantum information, once it’s been encoded.

The information picked up and carried by photons (either as gauge bosons or otherwise) can be brought along with the photons and perhaps transferred or otherwise interacted with based on what it contacts. I dont know specifically if that is different at light speed or not...but im fairly certain that photons at light speed do not experience time..and if there are any inherent symbolic or physical information within the photons at light speed then it is safe to assume that information can thus be timeless. That information could also be safely assumed to be found within nature on earth and I'd infer from that that there are varying degrees of timeless qualities picked up via the continued travel of the photons...regardless of how diluted they may be when they reach their so called destination.

I think I read a study by Zajonc that goes into it a bit as well and perhaps is more specifically relevant to the discussion in regards to the nature of photons and the accompanying definition of information and I realize that the point im trying to get across may not be accurately reflected in my lackluster composition of scientific terms. I am not quite as precise in my word usage as far as scientific discussions go so I generally sit them out and focus on the philosophical/metaphysical side of things that could be used directly or loosely to scientific findings.

To put it simply, im thinking that time itself is just a subjective perception of the sum of the countless interactions and environmental conditions that humans have been accustomed to studying and living in rather than a universal constant..every environment outside of earth would have significantly different "time" and different rates of time.

Imagine how "time" would be measured on Jupiter or another planet. The rate of time should be significantly different on that planet and who knows how many time zones there would be in order to somehow equalize those rates. There are also likely to be forces on Jupiter and in its atmosphere that would make our scientific calculations on earth fairly useless. Like you said, an atomic clock on the moon and mars would have been nice.

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

Furthermore, im not even convinced how "present time" can really even be properly measured as it is in a constant flow. Its almost like an irrational number in mathematics. The present just "is" and is just as real or as fake as the past and future. If you are looking at even the most advanced stopwatch 24/7..you see the numbers constantly increase and before you have a chance to think "ok now" so that "present" has already become the past. That would almost make it reasonable to conclude that true universal real-time present moment is only found at light speed..in which our perception of time doesn't even exist.

 

[tmonster]

The information picked up and carried by photons (either as gauge bosons or otherwise) can be brought along with the photons and perhaps transferred or otherwise interacted with based on what it contacts. I dont know specifically if that is different at light speed or not...but im fairly certain that photons at light speed do not experience time..and if there are any inherent symbolic or physical information within the photons at light speed then it is safe to assume that information can thus be timeless.

So consider this question
We are near the end of the universe-ie at the point of expansion so wide that nothing seen in the sky of any planet anywhere in the universe is extra-galactic- somewhere in the complete darkness of space there is a lone piece of ice separated in all directions from any other object by trillion trillion trillion trillion light years, how long with that piece of ice conserve any and all information it carries?

 

[tmonster]

Furthermore, im not even convinced how "present time" can really even be properly measured as it is in a constant flow

By my definition time is the particulate organization of energy and inertia
so you can theoretically measure the present with energy density map

 

[DoubleClutch]

Time is illmatic

 

[YvrzTrvly]

Furthermore, im not even convinced how "present time" can really even be properly measured as it is in a constant flow. Its almost like an irrational number in mathematics. The present just "is" and is just as real or as fake as the past and future. If you are looking at even the most advanced stopwatch 24/7..you see the numbers constantly increase and before you have a chance to think "ok now" so that "present" has already become the past. That would almost make it reasonable to conclude that true universal real-time present moment is only found at light speed..in which our perception of time doesn't even exist.

Dude c'mon your other posts were on point here. Time is infinite until it stops.

Take for example a set of real numbers between 0 and 1. Real numbers include whole numbers and any possible fraction. Between this there is an infinite amount of numbers. Now perform same calculation again with real numbers from 0 to 10...still the same amount regardless of the limits provided...aka your post

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

So consider this question
We are near the end of the universe-ie at the point of expansion so wide that nothing is seen in the sky of any planet anywhere in the universe is extra-galactic- somewhere in the complete darkness of space there is a lone piece of ice separated in all directions from any other object by trillion trillion trillion trillion light years, how long with that piece of ice conserve any and all information it carries?

answering with a question ...

the information cannot be destroyed, just transformed. the "lone piece of ice in condition X" will continue to retain said information until it is no longer the "lone piece of ice in condition X"

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

Dude c'mon your other posts were on point here. Time is infinite until it stops.

Take for example a set of real numbers between 0 and 1. Real numbers include whole numbers and any possible fraction. Between this there is an infinite amount of numbers. Now perform same calculation again with real numbers from 0 to 10...still the same amount regardless of the limits provided...aka your post

I realize. What i was attempting to get at was that "now" only exists as a state of mind in constant flux. clocks/time are just a reference point. In the numerical system..whats the true difference between .9repeating and 1.0? That, to me is like differentiating between present time being (for example) 11:59 and 59 seconds and 999 milliseconds and it being 12:00 and .001 milliseconds with human faculties (can make the same point with infinite reduction of time measures but didnt feel like typing that formulaic). There is no difference other than rounding for convenience and is impossible to pinpoint without technology.

By my definition time is the particulate organization of energy and inertia
so you can theoretically measure the present with energy density map

I havent delved into this enough to comment.

 

[tmonster]

answering with a question ...

the information cannot be destroyed, just transformed. the "lone piece of ice in condition X" will continue to retain said information until it is no longer the "lone piece of ice in condition X"

do you see the point yet? is that piece of ice experiencing time?