But Harden in that mode tonight where he only looking to get to the FT line. If he just starts playing his game I'm sure he'll get it going.
Tiny vs Oscar: Rockets @ Thunder official game thread
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But Harden in that mode tonight where he only looking to get to the FT line. If he just starts playing his game I'm sure he'll get it going.
Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
Yeah I was looking forward to this matchup too. He half-assing it out there on both ends. Hopefully we see some back and forths between them in the second half.
Kovu
All Star
The 1 time I root for the Rockets to win...
You nikkas trash.
You nikkas trash.
General Mills
More often than not I tend to take that L.
Sabo 
isn't this on ESPN
yoked em up
Sideshow fukkery to watch: who out of Westbrook and Harden will have more turnovers in this game?
Both averaging over 5.
Tied with six each.
Those assist numbers are looking less glossy when their assist-to-turnover ratios are somewhere between ugly and mediocre. It's like scoring 30 points while missing 20 shots.
Which of these is actually most impressive?
Harden: 12.6 apg, 5.7 tpg, 2.21 a/t ratio
Westbrook: 9.9 apg, 5.3 tpg, 1.88 a/t ratio
Lebron: 9.6 apg, 3.7 tpg, 2.58 a/t ratio
CP3: 8.5 apg, 1.7 tpg, 4.95 a/t ratio
Wall: 8.3 apg, 5.4 tpg, 1.53 a/t ratio
Tied with six each.
Those assist numbers are looking less glossy when their assist-to-turnover ratios are somewhere between ugly and mediocre. It's like scoring 30 points while missing 20 shots.
Which of these is actually most impressive?
Harden: 12.6 apg, 5.7 tpg, 2.21 a/t ratio
Westbrook: 9.9 apg, 5.3 tpg, 1.88 a/t ratio
Lebron: 9.6 apg, 3.7 tpg, 2.58 a/t ratio
CP3: 8.5 apg, 1.7 tpg, 4.95 a/t ratio
Wall: 8.3 apg, 5.4 tpg, 1.53 a/t ratio
If you consider the number of actual points produced and detract from that the average number of turnovers of the team multiplied by the average turnovers by the player, you'll have your answer. The detrimental effect of two or three extra turnovers to a player's value is usually overstated.
Assists/turnover ratio is bullshyt anyway. Turnovers should be compared with steals. Assists should be compared with the number of passes a player makes in a game.
What Westbrook and Harden are doing is definitely more impressive than what Chris Paul is doing. The extra points the first two score are significant and more impressive than having two or three less turnovers.
Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
That doesn't make any sense, and still really is no closer to actually finding the answer. The problem when actually comparing players' assists is that they're never the same (scorekeeper bias/interpretation, system, personnel on team and game situation) and they never tell you who actually was mainly responsible for creating the opportunity for a player to score.
I don't think we really should be comparing any of those stats with each other, at all. There's inherent problems with comparing anything that's in the box score.
At the end of the day I think all you can really look at is how effective each player's style and skillset is at generating points for their team while they're on court.
Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
To add: I don't think what Harden's doing this season is anymore impressive than what he was doing last season (in terms of his assists). He's still driving and kicking and breaking down the defense around the same # of times. The only that's really changed is that those one-out rudimentary passes he does (or passing late in the shot clock), a shot has been taken almost instantaneously by better and improved shooters now. Less indicative of his play and more so of him having better shooters who spread the floor and pull the trigger as soon as they get the ball.
The fact that Westbrook is averaging the assists he does (with less shooters and limited offensive personnel) is more impressive.
The fact that Westbrook is averaging the assists he does (with less shooters and limited offensive personnel) is more impressive.
The fact that Harden gets more assists from better shooters only tells us that his passing ability was underrated before because he was on a team with poorer shooters. You said the only thing we can go by is "how effective each player's style and skillset is at generating points for their team while they're on court". I haven't checked today but before last night Harden led the league in that category by quite a bit. Harden is part of the new school of efficient basketball. Westbrook is less efficient but at his peak equally potent and arguably more spectacular to watch. It is what it is breh.