To make elite schools ‘fair,’ city will punish poor Asians

Street Knowledge

Veteran
Supporter
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
27,373
Reputation
2,548
Daps
66,092
Reppin
NYC
http://nypost.com/2014/07/19/why-nycs-push-to-change-school-admissions-will-punish-poor-asians/

To make elite schools ‘fair,’ city will punish poor Asians

stuyvesant_high_school.jpg

In 2004, 7-year-old Ting Shi arrived in New York from China, speaking almost no English. For two years, he shared a bedroom in a Chinatown apartment with his grandparents — a cook and a factory worker — and a young cousin, while his parents put in 12-hour days at a small laundromat they had purchased on the Upper East Side.

Ting mastered English and eventually set his sights on getting into Stuyvesant High School, the crown jewel of New York City’s eight “specialized high schools.”

When he was in sixth grade, he took the subway downtown from his parents’ small apartment to the bustling high school to pick up prep books for its eighth-grade entrance exam. He prepared for the test over the next two years, working through the prep books and taking classes at one of the city’s free tutoring programs. His acceptance into Stuyvesant prompted a day of celebration at the laundromat — an immigrant family’s dream beginning to come true.

Ting, now a 17-year-old senior starting at NYU in the fall, says of his parents, who never went to college: “They came here for the next generation.”

The plot against merit
rk1_2730.jpg
 

Street Knowledge

Veteran
Supporter
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
27,373
Reputation
2,548
Daps
66,092
Reppin
NYC
New York’s specialized high schools, including Stuyvesant and the equally storied Bronx High School of Science, along with Brooklyn Technical High School and five smaller schools, have produced 14 Nobel laureates — more than most countries.

For more than 70 years, admission to these schools has been based upon a competitive examination of math, verbal and logical reasoning skills. In 1971, the state legislature, heading off city efforts to scrap the merit selection test as culturally biased against minorities, reaffirmed that admission to the schools be based on the competitive exam.

But now, troubled by declining black and Hispanic enrollment at the schools, opponents of the exam have resurfaced. The NAACP Legal Defense Fund has filed a civil-rights complaint challenging the admissions process. A bill in Albany to eliminate the test requirement has garnered the support of Sheldon Silver, the powerful Assembly speaker.

And new Mayor Bill de Blasio, whose son, Dante, attends Brooklyn Tech, has called for changing the admissions criteria. The mayor argues that relying solely on the test creates a “rich-get-richer” dynamic that benefits the wealthy, who can afford expensive test preparation.

As Ting’s story illustrates, however, the reality is just the opposite. It’s not affluent whites, but rather the city’s burgeoning population of Asian-American immigrants — a group that, despite its successes, remains disproportionately poor and working-class — whose children have aced the exam in overwhelming numbers.

And, ironically, the more “holistic” and subjective admissions criteria that de Blasio and the NAACP favor would be much more likely to benefit children of the city’s professional elite than African-American and Latino applicants — while penalizing lower-middle-class Asian-American kids like Ting. The result would not be a specialized high school student body that “looks like New York,” but rather one that looks more like Bill de Blasio’s upscale Park Slope neighborhood in Brooklyn.
 

Street Knowledge

Veteran
Supporter
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
27,373
Reputation
2,548
Daps
66,092
Reppin
NYC
Asian-American success
112107bktechjbn1.jpg

Brooklyn Technical High SchoolPhoto: Dylan Wilson

There is no dispute that black and Latino enrollment at the specialized schools, while always low, has steadily declined since the 1970s.

Blacks constituted 13 percent of the student body at Stuyvesant in 1979, 5 percent in 1994 and just 1 percent the last few years, while Hispanics dropped from a high of 4 percent to 2 percent today.

Similarly, at Bronx Science, black enrollment has fallen from 12 percent in 1994 to 3 percent currently and Hispanic enrollment has leveled off, from about 10 percent to 6 percent. The figures are even more striking at the less selective Brooklyn Tech, where blacks made up 37 percent of the student body in 1994 but only 8 percent today, while Hispanic numbers plunged from about 15 percent to 8 percent.

These declining minority numbers have not been matched by a corresponding increase in whites, however. In fact, white enrollment at Stuyvesant, Bronx Science and Brooklyn Tech has plummeted as well, dropping from 79 percent, 81 percent and 77 percent, respectively, in 1971 to just 22 percent, 23 percent and 20 percent today.

Rather, it is New York City’s fastest-growing racial minority group, Asian-Americans, who have come to dominate these schools. Asians, while always a presence in New York, didn’t begin arriving in the city in large numbers until immigration restrictions were lifted with passage of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965, championed by Sen. Edward Kennedy.

Since then, their proportion of the city’s population has increased from less than 1 percent to about 13 percent, and their share of the specialized school population has skyrocketed. Asian students constituted 6 percent of the enrollment at Stuyvesant in 1970 and 50 percent in 1994; they make up an incredible 73 percent of the student body this year.

The story is similar at Bronx Science, where the Asian population has exploded from 5 percent in 1970 to 41 percent in 1994 to 62 percent today, and at Brooklyn Tech, where their presence increased from 6 percent to 33 percent to 61 percent.

The ‘rich’ fallacy
031705idol.jpg

Fiorello LaGuardia High School for the Performing Arts on the Upper West Side is another of NYC’s specialized high schools.Photo: Kevin P. Coughlin

Asians in New York are overwhelmingly first- and second-generation; some three-quarters of the students at Stuyvesant are immigrants or the children of immigrants.

They’re hardly affluent, notwithstanding de Blasio’s implication that families who get their kids into the specialized schools are “rich.”

True, Asians nationally have the highest median income of any racial group, including whites — and in New York City, their median household income ranks second to that of whites and well ahead of blacks and Hispanics.

But Asians also have the highest poverty rate of any racial group in New York, with 29 percent living below the poverty level, compared with 26 percent of Hispanics, 23 percent of blacks and 14 percent of whites. Poor Asians lag far behind whites and are barely ahead of blacks and Latinos. Thus, the income spectrum among Asians in New York ranges from a surprisingly large number in poverty, through a hardworking lower middle class, and on to a more affluent upper middle class.

It might seem reasonable to assume — as de Blasio and others apparently do — that the Asian kids at the specialized schools come largely from families at the top of this pyramid. But this isn’t the case.

Half the students at the specialized high schools qualify for free or subsidized school lunches, including 47 percent at Stuyvesant and 48 percent at Bronx Science — figures that have increased correspondingly with Asians’ rising numbers at these schools. Based upon these figures, Stuyvesant and Bronx Science (as well as four of the other six specialized schools) are eligible for federal Title I funding, given to schools with large numbers of low-income students.

Think about that: Two public high schools that, along with half their students, are officially classified as poor by the federal government rival the most exclusive prep schools in the world.

The poor students get into such schools through hard work and sacrifice — both their own and that of their parents. The students typically attend local tutoring programs, which proliferate in Asian neighborhoods, starting the summer after sixth grade and for several days a week, including weekends, during the school year prior to the test. The costs are burdensome for poor and working families, but it’s a matter of priorities.
 

Street Knowledge

Veteran
Supporter
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
27,373
Reputation
2,548
Daps
66,092
Reppin
NYC
Subjective backfire
stuyvesant_high_school-2.jpg
Such subjective admissions criteria would be likelier to favor the kids of New York’s professional class than children from less affluent backgrounds.

De Blasio suggested, for example, that a student’s extracurricular activities should be one of the selection factors. But as a past president of the Stuyvesant Parents Association noted, “the kids that have the best résumés in seventh and eighth grades have money.”

A Chinese student like Ting Shi who has to help out in his parents’ laundromat is not going on “service” trips to Nicaragua with the children in de Blasio’s affluent Park Slope neighborhood. The LDF’s suggested admissions criteria — student portfolios, leadership skills and community service — are all subject to privileged parents’ ability to buy their children the indicia of impressiveness.

Ironically, eliminating the SHSAT would magnify the role of what progressives call “unconscious bias” — the idea that we have a preference for those who look like us and share our backgrounds. Subjective evaluation measures like interviews and portfolio reviews are much more susceptible to such bias than is an objective examination.

Sure, the decision makers will do their best to admit a few more black and Latino kids (especially those from the same upper-middle-class backgrounds), but the primary beneficiaries will be affluent white students who didn’t study hard enough to perform really well on the test but seem more “well-rounded” than those who did. As always, the losers in this top-bottom squeeze will be the lower middle and working classes. Among the applicant pool for the specialized high schools, that means Asians.

Comparing the specialized schools with other selective city high schools that don’t use the SHSAT bears this out. These “screened” high schools are, to varying degrees, more selective than regular neighborhood high schools; they choose students using the multiple criteria supported by SHSAT critics.

A comparison of the eight most selective screened schools with the eight specialized schools shows that the screened schools, while more heavily black and Latino, are also considerably whiter and more affluent — and considerably less Asian.

Remember that the specialized schools are 13 percent black and Hispanic, 24 percent white and 60 percent Asian. The top screened schools are 27 percent black and Hispanic, 46 percent white and only 26 percent Asian. And while 50 percent of the students at the specialized schools qualify for free or reduced-price lunches, only 37 percent of the students at the top screened schools do.

Subjective selection criteria also inevitably favor the affluent and connected — as a comptroller’s audit of the screened-school admissions process revealed. The study found that most of the schools examined did not follow their stated selection criteria and could not explain the criteria that they actually did use.

There is also a big difference between evaluating 17-year-old college applicants and 13-year-old high-school applicants. The younger candidates have had far less opportunity to distinguish themselves on such vague qualities as “character” and “leadership.” A selection process based on these intangibles can easily fall prey to arbitrariness, prejudice and parental gamesmanship.

Critics of the SHSAT will reply that something must be done about declining black and Hispanic enrollment at the specialized high schools. The answer, however, can never be to lower objective standards.

Adopting this cynical approach would do no favors for black and Latino children, while opening the door to discrimination against Asian kids like Ting. It is not the specialized schools’ emphasis on merit, but rather the advocates’ defeatist worldview that is truly — and tragically — wrongheaded.
 

Hawaiian Punch

umop-apisdn
Supporter
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
19,002
Reputation
6,934
Daps
83,404
Reppin
The I in Team
This is why I disagree with changing the standards to get in. Everyone has an opportunity to get in, as long as they score higher on the test. Would there be a call to arms if the majority of the students were black and Spanish? Rather than change the standards there needs to be more focus on preparing students for these tests.

At the end of the day I don't want to be part of something, just because I'm filling a quota. I want to be there because I earned my way. But that's just me :manny:
 

No1

Retired.
Supporter
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
31,984
Reputation
5,402
Daps
72,518
This is why I disagree with changing the standards to get in. Everyone has an opportunity to get in, as long as they score higher on the test. Would there be a call to arms if the majority of the students were black and Spanish? Rather than change the standards there needs to be more focus on preparing students for these tests.

At the end of the day I don't want to be part of something, just because I'm filling a quota. I want to be there because I earned my way. But that's just me :manny:
I think that's the wrong way to look at it. Tests that test "merit" often do disproportionately benefit those who are better off. Actually, most of the time. We all know the socioeconomic factors. As far as "earning" it. That I can agree with. But I'd also bet the black kids at those schools are primarily from African and Caribbean households. It's the whole poor recent immigrant versus long-standing and multi-generational poor thing, but I'm sure someone else I.E. @The Real can take this. I have to go back into lockdown.
 

Hawaiian Punch

umop-apisdn
Supporter
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
19,002
Reputation
6,934
Daps
83,404
Reppin
The I in Team
I think that's the wrong way to look at it. Tests that test "merit" often do disproportionately benefit those who are better often. Actually, most of the time. We all know the socioeconomic factors. As far as "earning" it. That I can agree with. But I'd also bet the black kids at those schools are primarily from African and Caribbean households. It's the whole poor recent immigrant versus long-standing and multi-generational poor thing, but I'm sure someone else I.E. @The Real can take this. I have to go back into lockdown.

How are these test disproportionately benefitting Asian kids, since they are poor to begin with? I do not agree that math and science is culturally biased. History, yes, but not numbers, IMO.

I do hear you on the poor immigrant vs. multigenerational poor issue. I feel that there is this American cultural thing at play here. I know personally of kids from Nigeria and the Caribbean who had 10 times the work ethic as American kids and were more successful. That's effort at play breh. How do you teach effort? That's the argument.

I don't think the answer is just let anybody in. These are competitive sink or swim schools and that may cause more harm then good. In my opinion increased focused needs to be placed the coming generation of black and Latinos. Whether it's more free tutoring programs or financial incentives for better grades, the focus needs to be on improving the work ethic.
 

wheywhey

Pro
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Messages
1,412
Reputation
520
Daps
2,026
NYC has at least 30 very good high schools. There is no reason to obsess about Stuyvesant. DeBlasio's daughter went to Beacon, a very good school. Asians have never really exercised their political muscle but they will if people continue to try to keep them out of schools.

Everyone has different gifts and for most Asians that gift is math. In NY state the average SAT score is 501 at Stuyvesant the average is 748.
 

wheywhey

Pro
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Messages
1,412
Reputation
520
Daps
2,026
These black students didn't need to go to Stuyvesant. The valedictorian and the salutatorian at Medgar Evers College Preparatory School both graduated high school with 60 hours of college credit and an associates degree. The valedictorian will attend Harvard and major in Molecular Biology. The salutatorian will attend Columbia and major in Computer Science and Applied Physics with a minor in Applied Math.


 
Last edited:

88m3

Fast Money & Foreign Objects
Joined
May 21, 2012
Messages
92,798
Reputation
3,875
Daps
165,648
Reppin
Brooklyn
It's always been fair to punish the poor. I swear some of you must live under a rock.
 

69 others

Superstar
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
6,564
Reputation
786
Daps
24,378
Reppin
NULL
NYC has at least 30 very good high schools. There is no reason to obsess about Stuyvesant. DeBlasio's daughter went to Beacon, a very good school. Asians have never really exercised their political muscle but they will if people continue to try to keep them out of schools.

Everyone has different gifts and for most Asians that gift is math. In NY state the average SAT score is 501 at Stuyvesant the average is 748.

:what: stop with the ridiculous stereotypes. a lot of Asians (mostly FOBS) excel at math in high school and college cause it's easier for them to pickup than other subjects cause of language and cultural barriers therefore they tend to concentrate more time on it than anything else but math is still very much a white's man field. most field medalist and other top math researchers are white.
 

wheywhey

Pro
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Messages
1,412
Reputation
520
Daps
2,026
:what: stop with the ridiculous stereotypes. a lot of Asians (mostly FOBS) excel at math in high school and college cause it's easier for them to pickup than other subjects cause of language and cultural barriers therefore they tend to concentrate more time on it than anything else but math is still very much a white's man field. most field medalist and other top math researchers are white.

You're the one with the stereotypes. Where do you get the idea that Asians do poorly in other subjects? Asians don't have any trouble with reading or English exams, they score the same as whites. Look at any national standardized test: NAEP, ACT, SAT, MCAT or GRE. There is no math on the LSAT so Asians score the same as whites.

I edited the Medgar Evers post to note that the students who got into the Ivy League are black. I think blacks are fully capable of pursuing STEM at a high level and they don't need to go to Stuyvesant High in order to do that.
 
Last edited:
Top