To make elite schools ‘fair,’ city will punish poor Asians

[EndDomination]

You're the one with the stereotypes. Where do you get the idea that Asians do poorly in other subjects? Asians don't have any trouble with reading or English exams, they score the same as whites. Look at any national standardized test: NAEP, ACT, SAT, MCAT or GRE. There is no math on the LSAT so Asians score the same as whites.

I edited the Medgar Evers post to note that the students who got into the Ivy League are black. I think blacks are fully capable of pursuing STEM at a high level and they don't need to go to Stuyvesant High in order to do that.

There is a cultural difference that affects Asian students, especially those of immigrants.
Their parents often push them harder, this is generally true of all children of immigrants, but the prime example seems to be Asian students, especially Chinese and Japanese.
The children of poor Black parents are not pushed as hard, likely because the parents weren't pushed as hard.
There are a lot of other factors that go into including early education in poor Black neighborhoods generally stifling their future progress.
This whole thing is a little mind-boggling.

 

[EndDomination]

Also, the NY Post is a Conservative, garbage, tabloid, sensationalist mess. I'll have to find some more credible sources on this subject.

 

[Rekkapryde]

That's basically the issue here.
The same thing is happening at Ivy League schools: Whites suddenly support quotas because Asians are displacing them.

It's all good until you are the ones getting left out.....

Academics >>>>>>>>>>> everything with many asian households and culture....now cacs know how it feels....

 

[Blackking]

No one gives a fukk about ting ting or his family or his culture. Of course cacs want to push asians out the way through quotas... then allow some blacks in just so they can say you ******s got in due to quotes.

Blacks should educate our own anyway.

 

[DStyles]

I'm sick and tire of the china man so I'm ok with this.


They're starting to take over the world

 

[No1]

How are these test disproportionately benefitting Asian kids, since they are poor to begin with? I do not agree that math and science is culturally biased. History, yes, but not numbers, IMO.

I do hear you on the poor immigrant vs. multigenerational poor issue. I feel that there is this American cultural thing at play here. I know personally of kids from Nigeria and the Caribbean who had 10 times the work ethic as American kids and were more successful. That's effort at play breh. How do you teach effort? That's the argument.

I don't think the answer is just let anybody in. These are competitive sink or swim schools and that may cause more harm then good. In my opinion increased focused needs to be placed the coming generation of black and Latinos. Whether it's more free tutoring programs or financial incentives for better grades, the focus needs to be on improving the work ethic.

I typed this in a flurry so forgive me if it's not as fact-specific or detailed as I would like.
You and everyone who dapped this post up missed what I was getting at. First and foremost, an elite education has a greater impact on the lives of someone of color than any other group so that has to go into any equation, but I won't even go with the outcome angle right now.

I'll go with the angle of understanding who exactly is benefiting from these programs. Why did you go off on talking about tests being culturally biased when I said nothing of the sort....many are (and we can have that discussion if you want) but again that's not what I'm talking about. Before I even go into this, please miss me with that "it's effort" argument because it's the same argument used by white people who are against affirmative action who know nothing about the circumstances these kids come from (FYI I've always said that stuff should be based on area code). You're implicitly arguing that "lazy" children of black and latin households are being accepted in lieu of hardworking white and asian people. That is nonsense. It probably took that black kid 10x as much effort just to make it to the point where he's ready to take that test. This is the problem, you're embarking on a moral argument based on anecdotal evidence without an understanding of what you're actually perceiving. The Chinese immigrants and kids of African and Caribbean parents that voluntarily immigrate to the United States are the children of people that are either educated themselves or incredibly hard-working which is how they got to the US in the first place. You're not comparing the typical poor American to the typical poor African, you're comparing them to the best or a segment of the best at the very least. If I took the "best" American students then all of a sudden the whole argument about the United States lagging behind the rest of the developed world would be dead too.

Furthermore, immigrant communities help each other out in ways that the typical "about me" American will not. These communities actually live out the sense of community Americans pretend to believe in. One of the pejorative terms for some African immigrants is "resettlement children." Those are kids who were resettled by governments and agencies and brought to the US or Canada instead of by parents or relatives who immigrated to the US or Canada. Often those kids were child soldiers or were raised in the heart of a war and end up getting into trouble in the United States. They fall into all of the same traps as the typical black american (note: Southeast Asians like Laotians and Cambodians often fall into these traps too). Programs like these are flawed in that they often benefit the children of African parents who do not go through what the typical black kid goes through but not because they look to provide a boost to the typical poor black kid. The typical poor black kid is probably from a broken home, has inadequate resources, does not have a larger family network, etc. That kid making it is more impressive than the other poor kid making it, just as the poor Asian kid making it is more impressive than the affluent kid making it.

We try to make these things about "meritocracy" but the typical poor black kid has had everything against him from the jump. The difference an elite education makes in his career prospects of a black or latin person is greater than that of any other group. A black guy needs a master's degree to have the same career prospects as a white kid with a college degree. Furthermore, there is no evidence to show that more harm than good is caused (but ample to show the opposite), that is merely your assumption and that's another argument used by highly controversial theorists (i.e. the professor at UCLA who feels the black kids are mismatched and don't belong there). This whole "we need to invest more in black and latino kids" from the jump (instead of doing both) line of thought results in nothing more but maintaining a status quo under the auspices of fairness. Society isn't out there trying to equalize the funding between poor and affluent districts..you're telling those acting to try to compensate for a flawed society to fix themselves before the problem they're trying to solve fixes itself.

I was born and raised in the inner city, my parents immigrated to the US from different parts of the world. They were college-educated before they got here. Due to different issues with the US not respecting certain degrees they had to do a lot of schooling over again....they were in college and then master's level programs while I was in school...while they still held down jobs. Similarly, my boy whose parents come from Syria had his father say forget it because he did not want to do schooling over again after American companies didn't care about his Master's Degree from the Middle East. He ended up starting a company instead that provided a decent enough lower to middle class life for his kids. But the fact is, despite our parents having to hustle it up and make it here in the US--we came from college-educated families with a work ethic that is not typical of an American family (much less a broken one) and were part of larger immigrant networks. If you're going to make a bet on poor kids from our area winning, we were your bet. Across the street, my boy's parents never graduated from HS and his father was absent. The older we got, the more susceptible he was to shyt that I wasn't and I had a support system that he didn't. I could go on and on about differences, but don't feel like it...the point is...even among poor people, there are levels and the difference you make in the life of giving a black kid an elite education and that validation in the job world vs. other groups (who lose next to nothing by going to a "less elite" school) more than trumps these notions of fairness that we seem to only believe in when it may affect our kids. I'm all for raising the standards for all children, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend the world as it is currently structured does not exist and when you try to eliminate all of that when gauging a student...I find that to be nonsense. But Rule of thumb: when a substantial portion of your argument is "I know from experience" or "I just feel" in a debate as important as this one, you're going to be missing a lot.

 

[Crakface]

They used to say, juts get the gades and you will make it

Then they said, grades arent everything, you have to b part of social programs on top of having a 4.0 gpa.

Then they say, grades arent as important as social clubs meaning someone with lower grades can get in over a student with higher grades.

Now they're just saying fukk you white power.

 

[wheywhey]

Georgia Tech has announced a new scholarship for Atlanta Public Schools valedictorians and salutatorians. They will be automatically admitted regardless of SAT scores and will be able to keep their scholarships even if their GPA falls below 3.0.

I think waiving the minimum college GPA requirement is good but I think the SAT score should be taken into account. A valedictorian could hypothetically have an SAT score of 960 out of 1600 and that isn't going to cut it at Georgia Tech. We'll see.

Updated: 9:24 p.m. Thursday, Aug. 7, 2014 | Posted: 11:31 a.m. Thursday, Aug. 7, 2014
Tech offers full scholarships to top Atlanta students

By Molly Bloom
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Georgia Tech will offer automatic acceptance and full, four-year tuition scholarships to all Atlanta Public Schools valedictorians and salutatorians.

The initiative is intended to increase “exposure and access to Georgia Tech for Atlanta Public Schools’ most prepared students,” according to a district statement.

To qualify for the offer, students must also complete Georgia Tech’s prerequisite course work and admission process. Students who qualify under the program can begin classes at Georgia Tech starting summer 2015.

Georgia high school valedictorians and salutatorians are already eligible for full-tuition scholarships to Georgia Tech and other state schools through existing state scholarship programs. Under the APS Scholars program announced Thursday, Georgia Tech will guarantee APS valedictorians and salutatorians can still receive full-tuition scholarships for four years even if their grade point averages fall short of state scholarship requirements. APS Scholars will have to maintain GPAs of at least 3.0.

About 38 students a year—the number-one and number-two students at each of Atlanta’s 19 high schools—would be eligible for Georgia Tech’s offer.

This fall, just 13 Atlanta graduates will enroll at Georgia Tech.

Georgia Tech in-state freshman tuition is $9,002. The university puts the total cost of attendance — including fees, books and housing and meal expenses — at about $25,000 a year.

Officials from both institutions announced the new program this morning at a press conference at Atlanta’s Booker T. Washington High School.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/georgia-tech-offers-full-scholarships-to-top-atlan/ngxNw/

 

[joeychizzle]

CUZ WE TAKIN OVER
ONE CITY AT A TIME

 

[Prince Akeem]

Meh...

 

[KingpinOG]

This is why America is on the path to becoming a third world country. We have to keep lowering standards and dumbing things down all in the name of diversity.

 

[humble forever]

You all ripping hard on cacs wanting these new rules when the article shows the new rules would have a major positive effect on the number of african americans that are able to attend the better schools


Giving up the best schools to brand new asian immigrants that just study all day is not a good idea. Give the people that ha spent some time here a chance too, even if they don't go to extra tutoring 7 days a week as kids

 

[edzyy]

Are some of you idiots? This has zero to do with White people. This is a African American/Hispanic issue. One of the sad outcomes of civil rights laws is this nonsense that the ratio of minorities in a population must somehow mirror everything from housing to employment. When it doesn't certain groups cry discrimination.

Persons come here illegally and legally speaking not a word of English and attend the same public schools as African Americans and Hispanics/Latinos. Indeed often in the same crappy areas, yet somehow they manage not only to excel academically but go onto higher education and get themselves out of poverty.

Meanwhile the usual suspects are still in the hood claiming someone is keeping them down. Okay, African American/Latino middle school students cannot score high enough? That's not the tests fault..So because large numbers of AA or Latino students cannot pass the exam there *must* be something wrong with it otherwise they would, right? fukk outta here.

I'll say it again one of the worst things to come out of this Civil Rights Act is this forced lowering of the bar just because some preset ratio of a population is not represented in housing, employment, education, etc...

 

[humble forever]

Are some of you idiots? This has zero to do with White people. This is a African American/Hispanic issue. One of the sad outcomes of civil rights laws is this nonsense that the ratio of minorities in a population must somehow mirror everything from housing to employment. When it doesn't certain groups cry discrimination.

Persons come here illegally and legally speaking not a word of English and attend the same public schools as African Americans and Hispanics/Latinos. Indeed often in the same crappy areas, yet somehow they manage not only to excel academically but go onto higher education and get themselves out of poverty.

Meanwhile the usual suspects are still in the hood claiming someone is keeping them down. Okay, African American/Latino middle school students cannot score high enough? That's not the tests fault..So because large numbers of AA or Latino students cannot pass the exam there *must* be something wrong with it otherwise they would, right? fukk outta here.

I'll say it again one of the worst things to come out of this Civil Rights Act is this forced lowering of the bar just because some preset ratio of a population is not represented in housing, employment, education, etc...

I agree, lowering the bar is bad. I actually believe it is counter productive. I believe it breeds resentment in cacs towards those who are benefitting( and pushing them out of the way with no merit).

So if african americans and latinos consistantly underpreform and need special help, what should change to help them put up the numbers? We know they're fully capable.

I think what needs to happen is a push to put hispanics and african americans into tutoring programs. The kids that care will show up. It will look good on their "resume". It also needs to be advertised as a positive and cool thing, the smart choice. That is how the playing field will be leveled. Practice makes perfect, point blank period. I did well on the sat and whatnot because i took extra courses, that was a luxury of money. These courses need to be available to everybody. As well as tutoring that can be pushed as cool- offer the kids pizza and shyt if they stay for tutoring, its the only thing that can even the playing field. Normal classes can become unraveled and unproductive by the attitudes and actions of a few students. Offer tutoring, they will be too cool to show up andt he kids can really learn.

 

[edzyy]

I agree, lowering the bar is bad. I actually believe it is counter productive. I believe it breeds resentment in cacs towards those who are benefitting( and pushing them out of the way with no merit).

So if african americans and latinos consistantly underpreform and need special help, what should change to help them put up the numbers? We know they're fully capable.

I think what needs to happen is a push to put hispanics and african americans into tutoring programs. The kids that care will show up. It will look good on their "resume". It also needs to be advertised as a positive and cool thing, the smart choice. That is how the playing field will be leveled. Practice makes perfect, point blank period. I did well on the sat and whatnot because i took extra courses, that was a luxury of money. These courses need to be available to everybody. As well as tutoring that can be pushed as cool- offer the kids pizza and shyt if they stay for tutoring, its the only thing that can even the playing field. Normal classes can become unraveled and unproductive by the attitudes and actions of a few students. Offer tutoring, they will be too cool to show up andt he kids can really learn.

It all starts at home. I believe it is the focus and working attitude that Asian's form by sitting through those rather dry classroom hours that shape them in a way to make them better and preferable employees than those who over indulge with the freedom of enjoyment in their early lives. When kids can resist the temptation to waste their time fooling around during their early lives(and parents who let them), they tend to grow up to have better discipline and also better working ethics when they enter the labor market.

It is sad to see that american politicians today are incompetent to inspire the hard working morals among the young americans; instead they take short cuts to even out racial disparities and tensions. Education is HUGE in Asian household's.