To the ladies: Why do you expect...

[wet landscapes]

Again I am not talking about specific examples. I am talking about patterns that I see. I have seen many black mothers speak like that. I rarely if ever see black fathers worry about hair or skin complexion. Now your father was wrong. Particular social class doesn't really play a role.There are black people of all social classes that have self hate issues. Nope there are a lot of parents that do that. I have seen black mothers on many occasions freak out because their daughters new growth is coming in and get that kiddie perm.

Social class plays a role for sure imo
the parents that I see celebrating their kids natural hair are middle class, this is speculation but I think its because the black middle and upper class embrace the problack image moreso than the lower class
the lower class is looking for comeups
like having "valuable" kids/grandkids with light skin and good hair, having their family married into by someone with societal value, just having a family thats higher up on the very small hierarchy that they're a part of (imo)
this "black mothers are c00ns" thing you're pushing is really one dimensional, no issue has one face

 

[-----]

none of my aunts are single (all married for years) and all my cousins date exoticals and redbones
I think it's kinda silly to think liking light skin is a symptom of fatherlessness

Are your aunt all lightskinned mixed race looking?

 

[wet landscapes]

Are your aunt all lightskinned mixed race looking?

and most of their husbands are black as night

 

[agnosticlady]

Social class plays a role for sure imo
the parents that I see celebrating their kids natural hair are middle class, this is speculation but I think its because the black middle and upper class embrace the problack image moreso than the lower class
the lower class is looking for comeups
like having "valuable" kids/grandkids with light skin and good hair, having their family married into by someone with societal value, just having a family thats higher up on the very small hierarchy that they're a part of (imo)
this "black mothers are c00ns" thing you're pushing is really one dimensional, no issue has one face

No one is pushing the black mothers are c00n. Again, another black woman refusing to admit where black women/black mothers have messed up. Who was it that started a petition for Beyonce to comb Blu Ivy's hair? Yet you are saying that there are no black women that do these things. I'm saying were both black men and black women fall short. Again I have seen black people of different class levels suffer from self hate and have the same ideologies. I've seen black families that are upper class who have self hate issues and still talk about good hair and all that extra stuff. I've seen black families of a much lower income that do not. I have also seen vice versa.

 

[-----]

and most of their husbands are black as night

That maybe thats part of the reason they have had relative marital success.

 

[Originalgangsta317]

Wat?

 

[-----]

No one is pushing the black mothers are c00n. Again, another black woman refusing to admit where black women/black mothers have messed up. Who was it that started a petition for Beyonce to comb Blu Ivy's hair? Yet you are saying that there are no black women that do these things. I'm saying were both black men and black women fall short. Again I have seen black people of different class levels suffer from self hate and have the same ideologies. I've seen black families that are upper class who have self hate issues and still talk about good hair and all that extra stuff. I've seen black families of a much lower income that do not. I have also seen vice versa.

The pressure on Black women to desire lighter kid is coming from somewhere. Mostly I believe it is the Media.

 

[wet landscapes]

No one is pushing the black mothers are c00n. Again, another black woman refusing to admit where black women/black mothers have messed up. Who was it that started a petition for Beyonce to comb Blu Ivy's hair? Yet you are saying that there are no black women that do these things. I'm saying were both black men and black women fall short. Again I have seen black people of different class levels suffer from self hate and have the same ideologies. I've seen black families that are upper class who have self hate issues and still talk about good hair and all that extra stuff. I've seen black families of a much lower income that do not. I have also seen vice versa.

that blue ivy petition was stan war sensationalist bullshyt
I'm saying the people of a lower social class are more invested in using scrawny ass efforts to improve their station, like their childrens hair
you brought up blue ivy, why do you think beyonce was so laissez-faire about her hair? Because she's fukking beyonce and thats her daugher, she doesn't have to prove her self worth, or worry about her daughter looking ghetto and being lower class and having a poorer quality of life because of it
and fathers worry about that shyt too
lower class people dont have the room to think they can do whatever they want and be good, they want to be better off

That maybe thats part of the reason they have had relative marital success.

 

[agnosticlady]

The pressure on Black women to desire lighter kid is coming from somewhere. Mostly I believe it is the Media.

I think that it is due to several factors. Don't get me wrong I have seen black boys want lighter skin children, but not to the level that I have seen it said by black women.

1. When slavery was abolished in this country a lot of black people did not receive any form of therapy. When Jews were released from concentration camps many were allowed to get some type of mental therapy, land, and some life was made easier for many of them (I am not saying you just get over the holocaust). On the other hand black people in America never really got a break. The black image has been attacked for centuries. You also have to remember that during slavery a lot of black women were raped. If you could pass for white (biracial or multiracial) you had an easier life. There were some women (bedwenches) who were ok with the idea of eventually having a lighter child. Light complexions became associated with an easier life (It still holds true to some extent today)

2. Women tend to think about things like what their kids will look like. Regardless of race most women do this. Yeah some men do that, but women do it a lot. It's not a bad thing it's just more common in women. I've been around black women who will say things like, "If I had a baby with (insert mixed or non black guy) our baby would look like so and so. On the other hadn with black men they don't mention the child as much (rarely). Instead since non black women are put on a beauty pedestal (due to their men establishing a patriarchy) they are seen as ideal. I've seen some black men boast about getting a non black or mixed race woman. Non black men, especially white men are pushed as romantic, nurturing, loving, and etc. They are shown as better mates and better fathers.

3. Again since beauty is more important to and for a woman she will speak about it more and invest more into making herself look beauty. A man is more likely to be judged on the beauty of his woman than his beauty. If he is ugly with an attractive woman people will high five him. I have seen on many occasions (way more than I have seen from the men) black mothers speaking about things like nappy hair, skin complexion, and etc.Saying things like, "Don't stay out in the sun too long", "Oh he/she has good hair!". Am I saying that black men never do this? Nope, but I am saying that I see this particular situation come from the mother. The children see it and pass it on.

 

[agnosticlady]

that blue ivy petition was stan war sensationalist bullshyt
I'm saying the people of a lower social class are more invested in using scrawny ass efforts to improve their station, like their childrens hair
you brought up blue ivy, why do you think beyonce was so laissez-faire about her hair? Because she's fukking beyonce and thats her daugher, she doesn't have to prove her self worth, or worry about her daughter looking ghetto and being lower class and having a poorer quality of life because of it
and fathers worry about that shyt too
lower class people dont have the room to think they can do whatever they want and be good, they want to be better off

No I think Beyonce was chilled about her daughters hair because it's a baby girl and you should not be pulling at a little girls hair. The same with little boys. A lot of black people let their sons hair grow and don't cut it until he is between 2-3. Her daughters hair was mostly in twist outs. That's why I was confused about the petition. I always assumed her hair was in twist outs/braid outs. They also got pics of them coming to and from places. I have a five year old sister and when she was under 3/4 we did not do a lot braiding or much to her hair. My point is that regardless of economic class there are self hate issues rampant in the black community. There are upper class black people who love to be surrounded by non black people to prove how "diverse" they are. My closest girlfriends are black. I'm trying to get one of them (Her father is a professor and her mothers a nurse practitioner) to go natural but she is so used to having her hair permed that she doesn't want to. When I was in high school one of classmates wanted to go natural because she liked my natural hair. She told me that her mom wouldn't let her because natural hair nasty. She is black (Haitian to be exact). A parent doesn't have to outright say, "Black skin is evil and nasty". It's little subtle things that play a large role in a persons mental development.


I thought her hair was ok like this for a little girl. I do think that Beyonce should wear her natural hair more often (maybe she does at home secretly) for her little girl. Eventually her daughter will wonder why her mom gets to wear the long flowly hair and she has to keep her natural hair.

 

[wet landscapes]

No I think Beyonce was chilled about her daughters hair because it's a baby girl and you should not be pulling at a little girls hair. The same with little boys. A lot of black people let their sons hair grow and don't cut it until he is between 2-3. Her daughters hair was mostly in twist outs. That's why I was confused about the petition. I always assumed her hair was in twist outs/braid outs. They also got pics of them coming to and from places. I have a five year old sister and when she was under 3/4 we did not do a lot braiding or much to her hair. My point is that regardless of economic class there are self hate issues rampant in the black community. There are upper class black people who love to be surrounded by non black people to prove how "diverse" they are. My closest girlfriends are black. I'm trying to get one of them (Her father is a professor and her mothers a nurse practitioner) to go natural but she is so used to having her hair permed that she doesn't want to. When I was in high school one of classmates wanted to go natural because she liked my natural hair. She told me that her mom wouldn't let her because natural hair nasty. She is black (Haitian to be exact). A parent doesn't have to outright say, "Black skin is evil and nasty". It's little subtle things that play a large role in a persons mental development.


I thought her hair was ok like this for a little girl. I do think that Beyonce should wear her natural hair more often (maybe she does at home secretly) for her little girl. Eventually her daughter will wonder why her mom gets to wear the long flowly hair and she has to keep her natural hair.

I think socioeconomic status is the root of it
pale skin used to be a sign that a woman was of a high class (not working class) and that was a desirable trait and I think that still is stuck in peoples head subconsciously

a broke struggling (socially and financially) dude isn't looking for a broke struggling woman to struggle with
they're looking for relief
kinky "undone" hair isn't going to cause relief
dark skin isn't going to cause relief
and women would rather be that relief than be a reminder of their less than desirable position
just my two cents

 

[agnosticlady]

I think socioeconomic status is the root of it
pale skin used to be a sign that a woman was of a high class (not working class) and that was a desirable trait and I think that still is stuck in peoples head subconsciously

a broke struggling (socially and financially) dude isn't looking for a broke struggling woman to struggle with
they're looking for relief
kinky "undone" hair isn't going to cause relief
dark skin isn't going to cause relief
and women would rather be that relief than be a reminder of their less than desirable position
just my two cents

Yeah but in this world you are black before you are anything else. That is why I said self hate runs deeply throughout black people regardless of economic class. You can be filthy rich and still be considered worthless due to being black, sooooooo black people may physically aim for what is closer to white but in different ways. For instance Nicki minaj and Taylor Swift had some little disagreement on twitter recently. The Media painted Nicki as the big bad wolf (I didn't feel sorry for her) and taylor as the sweet young lady. NIcki is rich, attractive, and etc but the world does not really care. That is what I see.

 

[wet landscapes]

Yeah but in this world you are black before you are anything else. That is why I said self hate runs deeply throughout black people regardless of economic class. You can be filthy rich and still be considered worthless due to being black, sooooooo black people may physically aim for what is closer to white but in different ways. For instance Nicki minaj and Taylor Swift had some little disagreement on twitter recently. The Media painted Nicki as the big bad wolf (I didn't feel sorry for her) and taylor as the sweet young lady. NIcki is rich, attractive, and etc but the world does not really care. That is what I see.

no see, everyone else sees you as black first
they see your postion and stigma before your humanity
black people have no problem understanding their own humanity, it's other people that see us as black first and "people" second

 

[agnosticlady]

no see, everyone else sees you as black first
they see your postion and stigma before your humanity
black people have no problem understanding their own humanity, it's other people that see us as black first and "people" second

That is what I said. Other people see black people as black first. It's only black people that do not see black first. Well most black people (I hope).

 

[wet landscapes]

That is what I said. Other people see black people as black first. It's only black people that do not see black first. Well most black people (I hope).

oh I see, I thought you were sayin that as an absolute statement