Traditional African gay wedding debuts

[africanprince]

Most Zulu leaders are not down w that fakkit sh1t. Of course there are gays amongst them, but they are looked at as .... what they are.

Zulu king enrages gay community | GlobalPost

There was a reason that Shaka was the most famous one of all...

and it pains me to say this sh1t. But he was a sell out CAKRAKER loving muthafukka who allowed then to come in and rape his people and set up shop on their land. So of course white people ALLOW him to get hyped up , made movies of, and the real leaders of the Zulu tribe to get lost in History. He let the people build forts, take over trade routes and ports, he let them come in an culturally influence his people (basically the reason for the sh1t we are currently discussing), etc etc.

Plus he acted like a historical white leader after his moms died -' According to Donald Morris in this mourning period Shaka ordered that no crops should be planted during the following year, no milk (the basis of the Zulu diet at the time) was to be used, and any woman who became pregnant was to be killed along with her husband. At least 7,000 people who were deemed to be insufficiently grief-stricken were executed, though it wasn't restricted to humans, cows were slaughtered so that their calves would know what losing a mother felt like.'

That's some white boy sh1t... and the black leader who was once a fierce warrior, proud African, turned into some crazy person who thought it was a good idea to allow crakker traders to influence their culture and ways.

BTW, this is just my take on it. But I think of it like this, and I thought this since HS. He started off w a rough childhood because he was a b*stard, not born out of marriage between a man and a woman (which is anti zulu). That made him tough. he invented weapons and military strategy and bodied larger tribes. Then white people come along and fck it alllll up. He acts crazy and let them influence him, just because they promised to help him keep winning wars. There's a wax life size scene of this at the Museum here- and it disgust me every time i c it- because he signed over maddd land to these manipulative people. There's a reason the other leaders put him in a pot and left him for the vultures to eat .

This man knows what he's talking about. Shaka helped the white people take over Zululand and incorporate it into the Union of South Africa too by signing concessions in exchange for alcohol and other new merchandise the Europeans came with. A swazi king called Mbandzeni did the same thing but we were lucky that he didn't last long on this earth. We lost about 40 % to the Union (the transvaal mines including nelspruit) and retained the less valuable land we reside in today. The good thing is that our independence has helped us retain the Nguni Culture and History.

 

[thekingsmen]

You might have a tiny idea about Zulu traditions and culture because you're probably a scholar BUT, I am a Swazi, living in Swaziland. Swazis and Zulus are the same (they speak the same languages with only small differences in some letters e.g, Swazis use t instead of the usual Z used in Zulu but the languages are similar at about 99%). We both practice Polygamy, We are a society dominated by patriarchy, pay dowry in the form of cattle as a brideprice, measure our wealth using the number of cattle we own we both have an annual reed dance ceremony called Umhlanga

Zululand - The Royal Reed Dance | KwaZulu-Natal Tourism http://kaliwise.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/umhlanga31.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ohQzq0ZPX.../s640/Umhlanga+-+pasha+Zwane+n%27+friends.jpg (swazi umhlanga)

we both have a first fruits ceremony called Incwala. The only difference is that unlike the Zulus, about 80 % of our population has preserved the culture due to the fact that Swaziland has an independent state for Swazis to live in while Modern day Zulus are just like you, they live in a secular multicultural society in South Africa where their King has very little power to have "real subjects".

Back to your false point "HLOBONGA does not mean homosexuality. It means sleeping with a girl when you're both not married. The Zulus who supposedly gave you this wrong information live in modernized South Africa and can barely speak their own language.

With that said, there is no word defining homosexuality in Zulu or Swazi, except that today there is a vernacular slang language that came about through cultural difussion between native South African tribes with the Boers, English, Italians, Spanish etc called "Tsotsi Taal". This language is spoken by young people (<40 years old) in the street and they refer to homosexuality as being a "SITABANI"


Homosexuality has never existed in Zulu Culture and I'm an Atheist.

 

[Blackking]

With that said, there is no word defining homosexuality in Zulu or Swazi, except that today there is a vernacular slang language that came about through cultural difussion between native South African tribes with the Boers, English, Italians, Spanish etc called "Tsotsi Taal". This language is spoken by young people (<40 years old) in the street and they refer to homosexuality as being a "SITABANI"

Homosexuality has never existed in Zulu Culture and I'm an Atheist.

//
... Let's go ahead and wrap this one up brehs.. The HL 'know it all'- but really don't know sh1t coalitions' have attempted to 'scholarly' bluff their way through yet another thread with google links and academia indoctrinated talking points.

 

[The Real]

You might have a tiny idea about Zulu traditions and culture because you're probably a scholar BUT, I am a Swazi, living in Swaziland. Swazis and Zulus are the same (they speak the same languages with only small differences in some letters e.g, Swazis use t instead of the usual Z used in Zulu but the languages are similar at about 99%). We both practice Polygamy, We are a society dominated by patriarchy, pay dowry in the form of cattle as a brideprice, measure our wealth using the number of cattle we own we both have an annual reed dance ceremony called Umhlanga

Zululand - The Royal Reed Dance | KwaZulu-Natal Tourism http://kaliwise.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/umhlanga31.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ohQzq0ZPX.../s640/Umhlanga+-+pasha+Zwane+n%27+friends.jpg (swazi umhlanga)

we both have a first fruits ceremony called Incwala. The only difference is that unlike the Zulus, about 80 % of our population has preserved the culture due to the fact that Swaziland has an independent state for Swazis to live in while Modern day Zulus are just like you, they live in a secular multicultural society in South Africa where their King has very little power to have "real subjects".

Not sure why you're trying to prove your cred to me breh, I accept that you're a Swazi and have some insight into Zulu culture, though that doesn't mean I consider you an absolute authority either, seeing as you're still not one yourself.

Back to your false point "HLOBONGA does not mean homosexuality. It means sleeping with a girl when you're both not married. The Zulus who supposedly gave you this wrong information live in modernized South Africa and can barely speak their own language.

With that said, there is no word defining homosexuality in Zulu or Swazi, except that today there is a vernacular slang language that came about through cultural difussion between native South African tribes with the Boers, English, Italians, Spanish etc called "Tsotsi Taal". This language is spoken by young people (<40 years old) in the street and they refer to homosexuality as being a "SITABANI"

I've heard about the vernacular language, which is a recent invention brought upon by modern homosexuals, but the use of hlobongo to denote male "marriages" among miners and others is well-documented, and the idea of male "wives" goes back over a century, at least, and not just among the Zulu, but among related groups in S. Africa, Lesotho, Mozambique, etc. (I admit I don't know much about Swaziland.) What I was told by the Zulu I talked to is corroborated further by the research that exists on the subject. It's a complicated issue, but we know for sure that these practices did exist in some native form.

Dafunkdoc posted one of the books earlier in this very thread, if you're interested in looking at it.

Homosexuality has never existed in Zulu Culture and I'm an Atheist.

Not sure what you mean by this. There's no group of people on this planet in which homosexuality has never existed. It's as old as humanity. We're talking about conceptions of it, not whether the activity or the people themselves existed. Again, specifically with reference to the Zulu, there's some research on the subject.

 

[Blackking]

Not sure what you mean by this. There's no group of people on this planet in which homosexuality has never existed. It's as old as humanity. We're talking about conceptions of it, not whether the activity or the people themselves existed. Again, specifically with reference to the Zulu, there's some research on the subject.

Khnumhotep and Niankhkhnum: A couple made to be gay by homosexual atheist and the new movement to push modern ideas onto ancient customs. These to men appear nose to nose... so we say they are gay even if they weren't gay and had wives and children. And actual scholars (not gay agenda supporters) say that the men were brothers.

Going a little further back, we can't show how prevalent gays were in Ancient Africa. What we do know is that the concept was ignored and not really spoken about. The social construct and ideas about homosexuality come from more modern times. We know that men-men sex isn't considered a part of African culture- ancient or traditional. There is a reason that the scholarly and random debates about homosexuality in Ancient Africa- are all over the place--- People are trying Very hard to prove that homosexuality was common in Ancient Africa. Homosexuality is obvious in greece-rome and other ancient societies. With all the pictures and stories and artifacts and writings on sex in Ancient Africa- Do you ever wonder why the only thing people can point to is gay couples who aren't gay couples.... and Do you ever wonder why the only people in Africa who support the notions are so called scholars who are part of African elite society who also happen to be huge supporters of gay causes and atheism?

There is a level of objectivity with archeologist and historians - the objective ones do not support your pov.

When arguing in the position of gay is normal behavior for humans and homosexuality flourished in Ancient Africa - you will always be putting yourself in the position of a Struggle argument and baseless points.

This is not to say that in 100K years there wasn't one gay couple in Africa before Europeans arrived.. We know that over a millions years went by until white people were present on Earth- about 7k years ago. We know that the morally debatable things that we debate about show up after the European empires start to spread back to Africa . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Empire And even these societies- Roman and Greek, have laws against homosexuality

And FYI, imo... the reason that people create a link between male homosexuality and pedophilia is because:
1/ if you know many gay people... you know that many gay men like youngins. There are even established groups to support this.
2/ In ancient times - we see that even when there were gay men - it usually was mostly scholars or warriors having disciples that were young boys- and not grown men having mutually consensual loving relationships.
3/ gays do things like - fight against the Boy Scouts of america, for not allowing gay men be troop leaders - during an investigation of 2000 lil boys who were b blasted by gay male troop leaders.

 

[Mr. Somebody]

Khnumhotep and Niankhkhnum: A couple made to be gay by homosexual atheist and the new movement to push modern ideas onto ancient customs. These to men appear nose to nose... so we say they are gay even if they weren't gay and had wives and children. And actual scholars (not gay agenda supporters) say that the men were brothers.

Going a little further back, we can't show how prevalent gays were in Ancient Africa. What we do know is that the concept was ignored and not really spoken about. The social construct and ideas about homosexuality come from more modern times. We know that men-men sex isn't considered a part of African culture- ancient or traditional. There is a reason that the scholarly and random debates about homosexuality in Ancient Africa- are all over the place--- People are trying Very hard to prove that homosexuality was common in Ancient Africa. Homosexuality is obvious in greece-rome and other ancient societies. With all the pictures and stories and artifacts and writings on sex in Ancient Africa- Do you ever wonder why the only thing people can point to is gay couples who aren't gay couples.... and Do you ever wonder why the only people in Africa who support the notions are so called scholars who are part of African elite society who also happen to be huge supporters of gay causes and atheism?

There is a level of objectivity with archeologist and historians - the objective ones do not support your pov.

When arguing in the position of gay is normal behavior for humans and homosexuality flourished in Ancient Africa - you will always be putting yourself in the position of a Struggle argument and baseless points.

This is not to say that in 100K years there wasn't one gay couple in Africa before Europeans arrived.. We know that over a millions years went by until white people were present on Earth- about 7k years ago. We know that the morally debatable things that we debate about show up after the European empires start to spread back to Africa . Roman Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia And even these societies- Roman and Greek, have laws against homosexuality

And FYI, imo... the reason that people create a link between male homosexuality and pedophilia is because:
1/ if you know many gay people... you know that many gay men like youngins. There are even established groups to support this.
2/ In ancient times - we see that even when there were gay men - it usually was mostly scholars or warriors having disciples that were young boys- and not grown men having mutually consensual loving relationships.
3/ gays do things like - fight against the Boy Scouts of america, for not allowing gay men be troop leaders - during an investigation of 2000 lil boys who were b blasted by gay male troop leaders.

Heavy weight posting. Dont forget about the cabin boys, friend. And thats somewhat recent. Lets also not forget about the slew of leaders in high places who have been moist. J Edgar, Nixon. People have a lot of good reasons to be cautious as it concerns, the gays.

 

[Mr. Somebody]

//
... Let's go ahead and wrap this one up brehs.. The HL 'know it all'- but really don't know sh1t coalitions' have attempted to 'scholarly' bluff their way through yet another thread with google links and academia indoctrinated talking points.

Man my mind upgraded off this post. They really are bluffing their way through it, googling like crazy just to make a notion they already have in their mind, that they dont even know is true.

 

[thekingsmen]

Khnumhotep and Niankhkhnum: A couple made to be gay by homosexual atheist and the new movement to push modern ideas onto ancient customs. These to men appear nose to nose... so we say they are gay even if they weren't gay and had wives and children. And actual scholars (not gay agenda supporters) say that the men were brothers.

Word...damn near twin brothers too.

 

[the mechanic]

This man knows what he's talking about. Shaka helped the white people take over Zululand and incorporate it into the Union of South Africa too by signing concessions in exchange for alcohol and other new merchandise the Europeans came with. A swazi king called Mbandzeni did the same thing but we were lucky that he didn't last long on this earth. We lost about 40 % to the Union (the transvaal mines including nelspruit) and retained the less valuable land we reside in today. The good thing is that our independence has helped us retain the Nguni Culture and History.

If youre impressed by the wall of gibberish Blackking aka Strugglethoughts has posted there i dont know what to tell you brother...

Anyway the British started their hostilities like 50 years after Shakas death..which had more to do with the discovery of diamonds than Shakas trading concessions .

Once the diamonds were discovered the British East India company was coming for the land by any means necessary so that point is moot

 

[the mechanic]

Im suprised anyone dapped this fetid wall of text..

There was a reason that Shaka was the most famous one of all...

and it pains me to say this sh1t. But he was a sell out CAKRAKER loving muthafukka who allowed then to come in and rape his people and set up shop on their land.

What a silly thing to say..he was famous because he conquered the most territory ,rapidly and the man was a military genius..you pretend to know and love black history but fail at such simple concepts as academic integrity and bias..shaka allowed a small trading settlement but to call that selling out is the dumbest thing ive read in this thread

So of course white people ALLOW him to get hyped up , made movies of, and the real leaders of the Zulu tribe to get lost in History. He let the people build forts, take over trade routes and ports, he let them come in an culturally influence his people (basically the reason for the sh1t we are currently discussing), etc etc.

All unsourced gibberish mixed with your emotions..these forts were built long after he was dead

Plus he acted like a historical white leader after his moms died -' According to Donald Morris in this mourning period Shaka ordered that no crops should be planted during the following year, no milk (the basis of the Zulu diet at the time) was to be used, and any woman who became pregnant was to be killed along with her husband. At least 7,000 people who were deemed to be insufficiently grief-stricken were executed, though it wasn't restricted to humans, cows were slaughtered so that their calves would know what losing a mother felt like.'

Lets have some examples of these white leaders since there should be plenty who have done the same

That's some white boy sh1t... and the black leader who was once a fierce warrior, proud African, turned into some crazy person who thought it was a good idea to allow crakker traders to influence their culture and ways.

He was ALWAYS unstable..he would impale and terrorize his enemies to make a point..he woud execute his own troops..this wasnt "cracker" influence in fact shaka only met the white explorers for a brief period before his assassination

BTW, this is just my take on it.

And thats why the name strugglethoughts suits you well

But I think of it like this, and I thought this since HS. He started off w a rough childhood because he was a b*stard, not born out of marriage between a man and a woman (which is anti zulu). That made him tough. he invented weapons and military strategy and bodied larger tribes. Then white people come along and fck it alllll up. He acts crazy and let them influence him, just because they promised to help him keep winning wars. There's a wax life size scene of this at the Museum here- and it disgust me every time i c it- because he signed over maddd land to these manipulative people. There's a reason the other leaders put him in a pot and left him for the vultures to eat .

Maybe he was assasinated because he was extremely brutal ,paranoid and suffered from some mental illness and not because he let the british have a tiny strip of land at the coast..which seems more logical...just pretend to be a rational poster

The point is Shaka was a great strategist,brilliant general but as a human being he left alot to be desired and was probably mentally ill from his tough childhood..

Clowns like you want to credit his achievements to "Black excellence" and put his shortcomings on the Britsh..thats stupid and points to a deep seated sense of inferiority

Show some integrity

 

[Blackking]

http://urbanalumni.net/realcontent/uploads/2013/01/funny-photo-ybu0qk2bau-nikka-PLEASE.jpg

Im suprised anyone dapped this fetid wall of text..

What a silly thing to say..he was famous because he conquered the most territory ,rapidly and the man was a military genius..you pretend to know and love black history but fail at such simple concepts as academic integrity and bias..shaka allowed a small trading settlement but to call that selling out is the dumbest thing ive read in this thread
All unsourced gibberish mixed with your emotions..these forts were built long after he was dead

Lets have some examples of these white leaders since there should be plenty who have done the same


He was ALWAYS unstable..he would impale and terrorize his enemies to make a point..he woud execute his own troops..this wasnt "cracker" influence in fact shaka only met the white explorers for a brief period before his assassination


And thats why the name strugglethoughts suits you well



Maybe he was assasinated because he was extremely brutal ,paranoid and suffered from some mental illness and not because he let the british have a tiny strip of land at the coast..which seems more logical...just pretend to be a rational poster

The point is Shaka was a great strategist,brilliant general but as a human being he left alot to be desired and was probably mentally ill from his tough childhood..

Clowns like you want to credit his achievements to "Black excellence" and put his shortcomings on the Britsh..thats stupid and points to a deep seated sense of inferiority

Show some integrity

you need to calm your fake ass down. I don't even get how this upset you.


but what I said was true though. Either way I said, it was imo regardless.

It's not bias because military strategy isn't unique to the Africa; so I wouldn't 'with bias' place Zulu war accomplishments on their being black with black excellence. Obviously white people are awesome when it comes to death and destruction - and history supports this. I simply pointed out his flaws and how his flaws led to some horrible things is all.

You sir are the one with no integrity; As you .. lol, you of all people, come into a thread about homosexuality and pretend to want to speak to the historical accounts of Shaka Zulu and defend his legacy. but if I said "fck outta here with that see through sh1t fakkit" - I would be a bigot, even though I would use the same phrase with a str8 man who was also being a fake fckboi.


You post a pic of a white man saying nikka please --- How fitting for someone like you.

 

[the mechanic]

you need to calm your fake ass down. I don't even get how this upset you.


but what I said was true though. Either way I said, it was imo regardless.

So in summary you cant prove a single thing you said...Gotcha

It's not bias because military strategy isn't unique to the Africa; so I wouldn't 'with bias' place Zulu war accomplishments on their being black with black excellence. Obviously white people are awesome when it comes to death and destruction - and history supports this. I simply pointed out his flaws and how his flaws led to some horrible things is all.

You said he acted like a historical white leader after his moms died

well post those examples of historical white leaders...oh wait

there arent any are there

and you really dont know that much history

You sir are the one with no integrity;

STFU..i can prove everything ive said so far..you cant

As you .. lol, you of all people, come into a thread about homosexuality and pretend to want to speak to the historical accounts of Shaka Zulu and defend his legacy. but if I said "fck outta here with that see through sh1t fakkit" - I would be a bigot, even though I would use the same phrase with a str8 man who was also being a fake fckboi.


You post a pic of a white man saying nikka please --- How fitting for someone like you.

Thank you for playing Strugglethoughts

 

[newworldafro]

You might have a tiny idea about Zulu traditions and culture because you're probably a scholar BUT, I am a Swazi, living in Swaziland. Swazis and Zulus are the same (they speak the same languages with only small differences in some letters e.g, Swazis use t instead of the usual Z used in Zulu but the languages are similar at about 99%). We both practice Polygamy, We are a society dominated by patriarchy, pay dowry in the form of cattle as a brideprice, measure our wealth using the number of cattle we own we both have an annual reed dance ceremony called Umhlanga

Zululand - The Royal Reed Dance | KwaZulu-Natal Tourism http://kaliwise.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/umhlanga31.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ohQzq0ZPX.../s640/Umhlanga+-+pasha+Zwane+n%27+friends.jpg (swazi umhlanga)

we both have a first fruits ceremony called Incwala. The only difference is that unlike the Zulus, about 80 % of our population has preserved the culture due to the fact that Swaziland has an independent state for Swazis to live in while Modern day Zulus are just like you, they live in a secular multicultural society in South Africa where their King has very little power to have "real subjects".

Back to your false point "HLOBONGA does not mean homosexuality. It means sleeping with a girl when you're both not married. The Zulus who supposedly gave you this wrong information live in modernized South Africa and can barely speak their own language.

With that said, there is no word defining homosexuality in Zulu or Swazi, except that today there is a vernacular slang language that came about through cultural difussion between native South African tribes with the Boers, English, Italians, Spanish etc called "Tsotsi Taal". This language is spoken by young people (<40 years old) in the street and they refer to homosexuality as being a "SITABANI"


Homosexuality has never existed in Zulu Culture and I'm an Atheist.

Atheism without homosexuality................................

......................................................... ........
























thats kinda awesome.... ...... :dude:/breh ......












sounds like one of Al Bundy's daytime fantasies when he's in the shoe store ........

 

[Blackking]

So in summary you cant prove a single thing you said...Gotcha
You said he acted like a historical white leader after his moms died
well post those examples of historical white leaders...oh wait
there arent any are there
and you really dont know that much history
STFU..i can prove everything ive said so far..you cant
Thank you for playing Strugglethoughts

lol, even if you don't agree with my point- I wouldn't expect you do say there aren't any historical white leaders who acted that way.

so you're trying to bait me. trollin me because I called you gay? Why pretend to be something you're not?

What's funny is... when you're telling the truth on something, no one really debates you... they just ask you to post links to common knowledge - yet they post no links to refute you.

links have been posted in this thread, plus there's google for you. I'm not wasting time with you, because I don't think I said anything controversial.

1. you say people credit his accomplishments to "black excellence" - no one has done this - but it's very telling that you would even go there.
2. You claim his dealings with Europeans was insignificant in life and in the reason for his death - He thought these conniving white men were awesome, because they treated him after he was stabbed, shortly after he signed over key land to them. Not just some "Tiny Strip" as you claim. He hung with them, went hunting with them, and they even help him slaughter Africans with more efficiency than he previously was able to do.
3. The other things you said, simply are just ridiculous. It's sad that you are pretending that you give two sh1t about history, let alone African history.
4. The real reason you're here is because people have made comments you do not agree with about homosexuality. I've quoted and responded to gay posters on here and didn't have a problem... but I do have a problem with insecure muthafukkas who don't own up to their orientation such as yourself.

I guess, I can safely assume you're gonna respond with some more fake bs, it's alright because I see you for what u are.

 

[Mowgli]

Atheism without homosexuality........................................................................... ........
























thats kinda awesome.... ...... :dude: ......












sounds one of Al Bundy's daytime fantasies when he's in the shoe store ........