Trump imposing tariffs on solar panels

wickedsm

Auntie Mozelle
Supporter
Joined
Jul 26, 2015
Messages
14,566
Reputation
12,760
Daps
92,572
(Reuters) - Struggling U.S. solar panel makers on Wednesday made a final plea to President Donald Trump's key trade policy advisers to support steep tariffs on foreign-made solar products, ahead of his imminent decision in a closely watched trade case.

Suniva and SolarWorld, which say an influx of cheap solar panel imports from China have made them unable to compete, appealed to the Trade Policy Staff Committee to recommend stiffer measures than proposed by members of the bipartisan International Trade Commission (ITC) in October.

This is from October


It’s the same thing I said about steel. These are NOT outdated careers and the workers are not stupid . This is someone from the opposite side of the world putting OUR people out of work because they’re decision to pay workers pennies .

we should end all trade with China and show them what a bomb look like . :manny:

yeah sure, thats what we should do. that will sure show them!
i for one as an American would love to either a pay more for shyt or b just not be able to buy the shyt
because you and Cheeto think its a great fukking plan
:comeon:

before you waste alot of energy caping for cheeto you should wait till he decides to have his and his daughters cheap knock off shyt made here in America. you know MAGA!

This is just a bullshyt bone thrown at his base and a hookup for his supporters in the coal industry
:pacspit:
 

Akata Man Bromo

Still learning....
Supporter
Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
37,424
Reputation
12,509
Daps
133,765
Reppin
Dade/Broward
ThinkProgress
3 hrs ·
The will be DEVASTATING for Southern states
2b07.png
⬇️


Trump’s solar tariff backfires: It hits red states and U.S. taxpayers harder than China
"Southern states like Texas, Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina among the most impacted."
THINKPROGRESS.ORG
I live in FL and bought my panels in nov :whew: I get the tax credit and all... Sucks man because its big business down here when they have the home owners conferences
 

the cac mamba

Veteran
Bushed
Joined
May 21, 2012
Messages
109,185
Reputation
14,206
Daps
312,327
Reppin
NULL
(Reuters) - Struggling U.S. solar panel makers on Wednesday made a final plea to President Donald Trump's key trade policy advisers to support steep tariffs on foreign-made solar products, ahead of his imminent decision in a closely watched trade case.

Suniva and SolarWorld, which say an influx of cheap solar panel imports from China have made them unable to compete, appealed to the Trade Policy Staff Committee to recommend stiffer measures than proposed by members of the bipartisan International Trade Commission (ITC) in October.

This is from October


It’s the same thing I said about steel. These are NOT outdated careers and the workers are not stupid . This is someone from the opposite side of the world putting OUR people out of work because they’re decision to pay workers pennies .

IMO we should end all trade with China and show them what a bomb look like . :manny:
so i get it now. he saved the jobs of panel makers in america, but he's costing jobs of installers because the rise in price will cause less people to go solar?

i like the direction :yeshrug: this clearly needs a tweak to make it work, but its literally keeping manufacturing jobs in america that were being outsourced to china. he went to bat for american companies who asked him to
 

Colilluminati

TAMRON HALL STAN
Supporter
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
10,773
Reputation
2,438
Daps
24,193
Reppin
MiddleWest
i for one as an American would love to either a pay more for shyt

You do that by making a product in America, by American manufacturers, with American employees making a liveable wage.

People are still making $7 dollars and change in some states :mjlol:


This is acceptable when you do trade with countries who pay workers with air and water.


People are complaining people are going to lose jobs over this . In the steel mill thread everyone was saying o well learn something new.:mjlol:

Now we’re made China can’t keep making AMERICAN solar companies file bankruptcy :mjlol:


Y’all crazy :russ:


I’m supporting Trump because I support shutting China out of America . :mjlol:
 

Colilluminati

TAMRON HALL STAN
Supporter
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
10,773
Reputation
2,438
Daps
24,193
Reppin
MiddleWest
so i get it now. he saved the jobs of panel makers in america, but he's costing jobs of installers because the rise in price will cause less people to go solar?

i like the direction :yeshrug: this clearly needs a tweak to make it work, but its literally keeping manufacturing jobs in america that were being outsourced to china. he went to bat for american companies who asked him to


The tweak is American companies supplying American workers with a higher quality product.:yeshrug:

It sucks a lot of people will lose there jobs , but fukk China :yeshrug:


You can’t regulate every industry to death then let them compete with Chinese industries . It’s not fair at all . There’s no reason we should be buying this much stuff made in other countries . This is what actually keep wages low .
 
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
3,960
Reputation
950
Daps
8,302
Reppin
NYC
The world works with global value chains now, the mercantilist theories underpinning use of tariffs were based on accumulating gold and funding Government expenditure. It was easier in the era of a few industrialized countries and every part of the value chain from start to finish was in one country. These days companies are networked and technological improvements can also lead to switching like how Detroit embraced aluminum in production of cars and reducing steel. The fact that the entire steel industry has 50K employees says it all.
Shame that posts like this get overlooked in the sea of barely literate nonsense on this forum.

Rep
 

Kyle C. Barker

Migos VERZUZ Mahalia Jackson
Joined
Feb 5, 2015
Messages
28,706
Reputation
9,732
Daps
123,475
Interesting. He's taking a page out of Reagan's book, this time around we're levying tariffs on China instead of Japan. Back then Reagan was trying to curtail Japanese car and computer manufacturers.

It sounds good at heart but corporations being corporations ended up using it as a form of corporate welfare and chose not to innovate.

For instance, one of Reagan's tariffs put a cap on the number of cars Japanese manufacturers could import to the U.S.

This enabled the American auto manufacturers to actually produce less cars and lay off tens of thousands of auto workers. By producing less cars they could actually sell them for more. Aaaand since they had a smaller labor force they could get a bigger profit. Brazy.

Anyways history will definitely repeat itself with the tariff fukkshyt because Japan already laid the blueprint for how to deal with this mess. It didn't work in the 80s and it definitely won't work in 2010s.



shythole Countries levy tariffs everyday B, China will be alright. And since we opted out of the TPP we have even less leverage on China's influence.
 

Snoopy Loops

All Star
Joined
Aug 4, 2013
Messages
1,631
Reputation
240
Daps
4,081
Mostly paraphrased from a Reddit post on r/solar which I'm having a hard time embedding.

But basically domestic demand for solar pv far outstrips domestic supply (14GW vs 2GW). Before investment in supply can catch up to demand, the tariff period would have ended, and thats from factoring in the high investment cost ($1 bill/GW) and 18 month plant construction timeline.

The value chain for solar pv is comprised mostly of engineers, installers and technicians rather than manufacturers. He's basically fukking over the 80% for the upper 20%. Typical Republican shyt.
 

FAH1223

Go Wizards, Go Terps, Go Packers!
Staff member
Supporter
Joined
May 16, 2012
Messages
78,849
Reputation
9,734
Daps
234,529
Reppin
WASHINGTON, DC
This is a very detailed article about the solar industry in the past decade...
here's an excerpt cause its long

Did Obama’s Stimulus Hurt The Planet? How Trump Could Revive Homegrown Solar
Instead of increasing domestic manufacturing, America’s rush to solar fueled an import boom — one effectively subsidized by the U.S. government. While Beijing had already begun propping up its solar industry, President Obama’s 2009 stimulus delivered hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars to foreign companies.

“Unfortunately, the Obama administration stimulus funding for solar installations primarily benefited Chinese producers who were also receiving massive grants, loans, and other government subsidies, and then dumping their product in the U.S. market,” Tim Brightbill, a partner with the law firm Wiley Rein who is representing SolarWorld Americas, told International Business Times. “The stimulus had almost no benefit for U.S. producers of solar cells and modules.”

The result is a failing American solar manufacturing sector — and diminished environmental benefits. Recent science suggests that, for as long as nine years, the carbon cost of producing and importing an Asian-made solar panel is greater than the reduction in greenhouse gas emissions that the same panel will provide on the roof of a home.

The U.S. industry’s crisis led Suniva and SolarWorld Americas, the two largest U.S. solar manufacturing companies, to file a case in April with the ITC, asking it to declare that their industry has been seriously damaged by foreign imports.

On Sept. 22, the ITC ruled unanimously that foreign imports have injured American manufacturers. On Tuesday, the commission released its “remedy recommendations” for President Trump, who has the power to accept or reject the recommendation by January. The four ITC commissioners laid out separate, yet similar, plans including tariffs of up to $0.35/watt on panels that would kick in after a yearly import quota had been reached and decrease over four years.

Possibly hinting at how the administration is leaning, the White House said in a Sept. 22 statement, “The U.S. solar manufacturing sector contributes to our energy security and economic prosperity.” Axios reported that Trump is likely to issue tariffs on solar imports.

“There is a strong economic justification and a strong environmental justification for having solar manufacturing in the market where the product will be used,” said Brightbill. “The U.S. is the second-largest solar market in the world, and solar demand is strong and growing...yet imports have taken all of that growth. It doesn’t make sense either economically or environmentally.”

$

Ben Bierman (R) and Chris Gronet (L) lead U.S. President Barack President Barack Obama on a tour of the Solyndra solar panel company on May 26, 2010 in Fremont, California. Obama's federal stimulus plan provided substantial loans to Solyndra, which later went bankrupt. Photo: Paul Chinn-Pool/Getty Images

An Incentive Plan — And A Loophole

Obama’s economic stimulus package was aimed, among other goals, at creating domestic jobs by helping incentivize and grow U.S. companies. Part of the $787 billion American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 — section 48C — was the Advanced Energy Manufacturing Tax Credit, a $2.3 billion program that provided a 30 percent tax credit to 183 companies investing in green energy manufacturing or energy conservation technologies.

To earn the tax credits, projects had to be based in the U.S., and a “ Buy America ” clause was included to boost domestic manufacturing. But the clause had a loophole: It would be waived if “the relevant manufactured goods are not produced in the United States in sufficient and reasonably available quantities.” Because of the relatively small solar manufacturing capacity in the U.S., domestic solar installation companies receiving stimulus money would be allowed to purchase panels from overseas, undercutting U.S. manufacturers.

But that’s not all — while roughly 70 percent of the grant recipients were American companies, there were at least 17 foreign-based companies receiving 48C tax credits that had already arranged for solar or wind manufacturing operations in low-wage nations, according to a 2010 report from a project of the BlueGreen Alliance Foundation, an environmental nonprofit. Six U.S. companies that were awarded tax credits, including First Solar and Sun Power, already had manufacturing operations in low-wage, East Asian countries such as China, Malaysia and the Philippines.

Receiving the biggest chunks of 48C stimulus funding were American manufacturers of polycrystalline-silicon, the key ingredient in most of the world’s solar cells. In January 2010, Hemlock Semiconductor Corp. was awarded $142 million in 48C tax credits to expand its polysilicon manufacturing operations in Hemlock, Tennessee, where it is based. The North American branch of the Germany-based Wacker Chemie got over $128 million in 48C tax credits to help build a polysilicon manufacturing facility in Charleston, Tennessee. The Norwegian REC Silicon, which has two U.S. operations, received $155 million in credits — the highest amount awarded to a 48C recipient — and AE Polysilicon got $45 million.

Domestic polysilicon manufacturers posed another problem for the country’s solar panel producers: Both before and after receiving stimulus funds, they entered into long-term “take-or-pay” contracts with foreign, often Chinese, solar manufacturing companies. REC Silicon, for example, entered into several contracts guaranteeing sales of polysilicon andsolar wafers — electrical components of solar cells that are made from polysilicon — at fixed prices to companies headquartered in East Asia. Hemlock entered into numeroustake-or-pay contracts with foreign solar producers in China, Japan and Germany.

Using cheap, subsidized polysilicon and polysilicon products from the U.S., along with huge subsidies and tax credits from their own government, Chinese manufacturers were able to produce solar panels at extremely low cost, allowing them to “dump” huge numbers of cheap panels into the U.S. market.

At the same time, China was expanding its polysilicon manufacturing, further reducing global prices. Oversupply of polysilicon pushed prices way down in 2011, with global pricing falling over 60 percent. In 2012, the price continued to decline.

After the U.S. imposed tariffs on Chinese solar imports in 2012, China responded in mid-2013 with its own steep tariffs of up to 57 percent on polysilicon imports from the U.S. This move hurt the U.S. polysilicon industry. REC Silicon’s Washington facility, for example, exported 80 percent of its polysilicon to China before the tariffs. Until September 2015, companies were able to exploit a loophole that waived the tariffs if Chinese companies were importing the material for use in products that would then be exported. Still, U.S. companies have taken a hit.

The stimulus money wasn’t nearly enough for American solar manufacturers to weather this perfect storm. From 2011 to 2014, at least 16 domestic facilities manufacturing solar modules, cells and other components closed. In 2014, the U.S. produced a mere 2 percent of the world’s solar panels, while Asia, particularly China, made 87 percent. From 2010 to 2016, as the overall U.S. solar industry more than doubled, solar manufacturing jobs went from 27 percent of total domestic solar industry jobs down to 15 percent. In 2016, the industry continued to increase its workers, and manufacturing employees remained at roughly 15 percent of the workforce.
 

wickedsm

Auntie Mozelle
Supporter
Joined
Jul 26, 2015
Messages
14,566
Reputation
12,760
Daps
92,572
You do that by making a product in America, by American manufacturers, with American employees making a liveable wage.

People are still making $7 dollars and change in some states :mjlol:


This is acceptable when you do trade with countries who pay workers with air and water.


People are complaining people are going to lose jobs over this . In the steel mill thread everyone was saying o well learn something new.:mjlol:

Now we’re made China can’t keep making AMERICAN solar companies file bankruptcy :mjlol:


Y’all crazy :russ:


I’m supporting Trump because I support shutting China out of America . :mjlol:

thats all i needed to know about you.
no need for me to address you any further.
 

DonFrancisco

Your Favorite Tio!
Joined
May 3, 2013
Messages
1,383
Reputation
420
Daps
3,098
Reppin
Sabado Gigante
(Reuters) - Struggling U.S. solar panel makers on Wednesday made a final plea to President Donald Trump's key trade policy advisers to support steep tariffs on foreign-made solar products, ahead of his imminent decision in a closely watched trade case.

Suniva and SolarWorld, which say an influx of cheap solar panel imports from China have made them unable to compete, appealed to the Trade Policy Staff Committee to recommend stiffer measures than proposed by members of the bipartisan International Trade Commission (ITC) in October.

This is from October


It’s the same thing I said about steel. These are NOT outdated careers and the workers are not stupid . This is someone from the opposite side of the world putting OUR people out of work because they’re decision to pay workers pennies .

IMO we should end all trade with China and show them what a bomb look like . :manny:

Lost my first job because Obama imposed crazy tarriffs on tires and rubber from non-US companies. I worked for a tire distributor that entered the market with cheap tires. Honestly this won't increase production, it will just push the price up.
 

Json

Superstar
Joined
Nov 21, 2017
Messages
13,926
Reputation
1,770
Daps
43,012
Reppin
Central VA
Yeah what exactly is the guarantee solar panels will be bought at the same amount without cheaper ones on the market?
 
Top