US/IAEA reach Nuclear Deal With Iran

NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong

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Iran has NEVER been conquered fam :wow:

They were no where near the threat they are now compared to when Saddam was there. Conquering them is not the point nor shouldve been the aim. Opening up Iraq let rogue groups and Iran's asymmetric influence spread essentially unchecked. Sad to say but Iraq needed an iron fist for any remote stability in Iraq and around Iraq...If Saddam could just fukkin chill with his bomb testing on civilians and other bullshyt so brazenly..AND...Cheney wasnt such a smarmy fukk with little George and the neocons having a grudge for saddam battling with HW then none of this shyt would have happened. The biggest powder kegs during Clinton and before 9/11 were Israel/Palestine (remains) and the battle for Kashmir. Now the powder keg has spread over about 6 fukkin countries with hundreds of billions, if not more, at stake..and China/Russia have decidedly better business situations to capitalize on while we are trending downwards. Bush/Cheney started this fukk-up and did so royally. This is a deal that should have been cracked with Iraq not Iran. Saddam wasnt nearly as extreme in rhetoric or foreign affairs..just a Machiavellian ruler with no conscience. Is living in Iraq even decidedly better now than it was under him on average? Legit question, dont really know. Im assuming so but its not like they are the bastion for democracy which was the ultimate wolf ticket pitched by the administration under the umbrella of WMD ducktales.
 

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They were no where near the threat they are now compared to when Saddam was there. Conquering them is not the point nor shouldve been the aim. Opening up Iraq let rogue groups and Iran's asymmetric influence spread essentially unchecked. Sad to say but Iraq needed an iron fist for any remote stability in Iraq and around Iraq...If Saddam could just fukkin chill with his bomb testing on civilians and other bullshyt so brazenly..AND...Cheney wasnt such a smarmy fukk with little George and the neocons having a grudge for saddam battling with HW then none of this shyt would have happened. The biggest powder kegs during Clinton and before 9/11 were Israel/Palestine (remains) and the battle for Kashmir. Now the powder keg has spread over about 6 fukkin countries with hundreds of billions, if not more, at stake..and China/Russia have decidedly better business situations to capitalize on while we are trending downwards. Bush/Cheney started this fukk-up and did so royally. This is a deal that should have been cracked with Iraq not Iran. Saddam wasnt nearly as extreme in rhetoric or foreign affairs..just a Machiavellian ruler with no conscience. Is living in Iraq even decidedly better now than it was under him on average? Legit question, dont really know. Im assuming so but its not like they are the bastion for democracy which was the ultimate wolf ticket pitched by the administration under the umbrella of WMD ducktales.
thing is..Saddam did have a nuke program in the 80s and 90s :snoop:
 

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I have read here and elsewhere a lot of jubilation re the Iranian nuclear 'deal'. Some are even suggesting this was a 'victory' for Iran! Come again?! I cannot quite agree with that.

Personally, I'd also caution people to wait and see how this whole thing is gonna play out. It ain't over till it's over.
BTW, Pepe Escobar reports that the conventional arms embargo on Iran will continue for another 5 years(i hear even up to 9 re missiles):
"The conventional arms embargo on Iran essentially stays, for five years. That’s absurd, compared to Israel and the House of Saud arming themselves to their teeth.

Last May the US Congress approved a $1.9 billion arms sale to Israel. That includes 50 BLU-113 bunker-buster bombs — to do what? Bomb Natanz? — and 3,000 Hellfire missiles. As for Saudi Arabia, according to SIPRI, the House of Saud spent a whopping $80 billion on weapons last year; more than nuclear powers France or Britain. The House of Saud is waging an — illegal — war on Yemen."

Although I'm really glad the sanctions will be lifted, if they are, here r some reasons expressed by others and why I do not quite view the deal as a win for Iran.

MoA wrote:

"First Thoughts About The Iran Deal

Some deal was agreed upon between Iran and some security council countries. It will take some time to read and understand the full paper and the annexes, some 160 pages, to judge the outcome. What the media will write about it will be mostly spin from either side and the devil is as always in the details.

The deal itself is a major infringement on Iran's SOVEREIGNTY extorted though a manufactured crisis about an Iranian nuclear weapons program that does not and did not ever exist.

The U.S. has a bad record of sticking to international deals it made. North Korea was promised two civil nuclear electricity plants to be build by the United States for stopping its nuclear activities. None was build and North Korea restarted its weapon program. Libya agreed to give up the tiny preliminary nuclear program it had and the U.S. destroyed the state.

Netanyahoo's puppets in the U.S. congress will do their best to blockade the current deal. Should they not be able to do so attempts will be made to press the next U.S. president into breaking the agreement.

Iran must now be very careful to not get trapped into more concessions or even a war."

Exactly.

Dr.Roberts, a former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy for the Reagan Administration and former associate editor of the Wall Street Journal, wrote recently:

"[...]The nuclear weapons fabrication has always been a cloak for Washington’s real intention, which is to bring regime change to Iran, whether from outside or inside, and return Iran to its previous status of a vassal state of the West. The Western imperialists never forgive those who escape or throw off their clutches.
[...]
Whether Obama is sincere, entrapped by Russian diplomacy, or relying on a false flag event to discredit Iran and thus nix the deal, I do not know. Israel, of course, wants Washington to remove all obstacles to its expansion in the Middle East. Having stolen Palestine, Israel wants southern Lebanon as its next acquisition.

What I do know is that as the nuclear deal with Iran is not the real issue, whether it succeeds or fails will have no impact, because Washington’s objection to Iran is Iran’s independence. Iran is in Washington’s way. The nuclear threat hoax that Washington created was just a propagandistic way to bring insouciant Americans and Europeans around to an attack on Iran.

Iran remains in danger regardless of the success or failure of the agreement.

I am amazed that governments threatened by Washington always fail to see the real issue and instead accept Washington’s definition of the problem. The contrived nuclear issue serves as a cloak for Washington’s intention to overthrow the independence of Iran; yet the Iranian government and Iranian media have followed the lead of Washington and its presstitutes in accepting this contrived issue as the real issue. If Iran survives, it will be a miracle."

Also, it's important do understand what exactly the Rouhani administration stands for. From some of the things I have read, it seems that he represents the iranian olygarchs/neoliberals.

Here is an example from Iranian economist and US university( Drake University) professor Ismael Hossein-zadeh, re the economic policies of the Rouhani administration:

"Iran could minimize the baleful effects of sanctions by trying to disengage its economic policies from nuclear negotiations and the threat of further sanctions. This would be possible if the Rouhani administration's economic outlook somehow tilted away from outward-looking to inward-looking strategies of economic development; that is, the development of a "resistance economy", as Iran's Supreme leader, Ayatollah Khamenei has put it.

This requires an economic strategy that would view the sanctions as an opportunity to mobilize national resources and chart an industrialization course toward import-substitution and economic self-reliance - something akin to a war economy, since Iran has effectively been subjected to a brutal economic war by the United States and its allies.

Such a path of development would be similar to the eight years (1980-88) of war with Iraq when, at the instigation and support of regional and global powers, Saddam Hussein launched a surprise military attack against Iran. Not only did the Western powers and their regional allies support the Iraqi dictator militarily but they also subjected Iran to severe economic sanctions.

With its back against the wall, so to speak, Iran embarked on a revolutionary path of a war economy that successfully provided both for war mobilization to defend its territorial integrity and for the development of respectable living conditions for its people.

By taking control of the commanding heights of the national economy, and effectively utilizing the revolutionary energy and dedication of their people, Iranian policy makers further succeeded in bringing about significant economic developments. These included: extensive electrification of the countryside, expansion of transportation networks, construction of tens of thousands of schools and medical clinics all across the country, provision of foodstuffs and other basic needs for the indigent at affordable prices, and more.

Alas, despite its record of success, this option seems to be altogether alien to Rouhani and his economic advisers who follow the neoliberal/neoclassical school of economic thought and maintain that the solution to Iran's economic problems lies in an unrestrained integration into world capitalism, in a wholesale (and often fraudulent) privatization of the economy, and in the kind of economic austerity preached by the International Monetary Fund."
 

ill

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Iran leader withholds verdict on nuclear deal, vows anti-U.S. policies

"Whether the deal is approved or disapproved, we will never stop supporting our friends in the region and the people of Palestine, Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Bahrain and Lebanon. Even after this deal our policy towards the arrogant U.S. will not change," he said.

"The Americans say they stopped Iran from acquiring a nuclear weapon," Khamenei said.

"They know it's not true. We had a fatwa (religious ruling), declaring nuclear weapons to be religiously forbidden under Islamic law. It had nothing to do with the nuclear talks."

"During the nuclear talks, we saw the Americans' dishonesty over and over, but fortunately our officials fought back and in some cases showed revolutionary reactions," Khamenei said during meetings with senior Iranian officials and ambassadors from several Muslim states, according to his official website

All of you that said the US won in any way shape or form; :mjlol:.
 

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won? if the goal was no nuclear weapons what in that statement changes that? if iran wants to say they have no plans on building a nuclear weapon the next 10 years at least because of a fatwa and not nuclear talks who gives a shyt.
 

ill

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won? if the goal was no nuclear weapons what in that statement changes that? if iran wants to say they have no plans on building a nuclear weapon the next 10 years at least because of a fatwa and not nuclear talks who gives a shyt.

All they've done is delay the inevitable war. The only "victory" for the US is that they don't have to go to war with Iran for another 10 years. Thats literally all thats been accomplished based on what Iran is saying. Whats your stance gonna be when Iran announces they have nukes in a decade? They are spitting in the faces of the US delegation and telling them that this changes literally nothing. All you championing that Iran is now civil and will work with the world are out of your minds. We just handed them the keys to the castle and they have free reign to do whatever the fukk they want. But yeah, focus on that bullshyt fatwa and not him saying he's still going to support all of the same enemies of the US that they previously supported. :francis: The situation in Iraq and most of the ME is a direct result of aggressive resistance by Iran and its special forces but y'all just chalk it up to our inept foreign policy.
 

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i don't have a problem with that, those countries aren't my enemies, well the only one on that list that bothers me is syria. but the rest? no. iraq is only troubling because of this rah rah war is awesome bullshyt that you and your party love so much, but before 2002 i had the same ambivalence towards iraq that i do those other countries on that list except syria. but now the only reason your neocon adventure in iraq failed is because of iran putting roadblocks in the way. ohhhkay.

in fact the two countries whose behavior i can't stand the most in the middle east are iran's mortal enemies: saudi arabia and israel. funny that.

and if in 10 years iran announces they have nukes then this deal would have been a complete failure. but if in 10 years iran says: terms of the deal have expired we believe we have the right to a weapon then the deal bought us 10 years of not starting another war in the middle east but this time against a real country.
 

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All they've done is delay the inevitable war. The only "victory" for the US is that they don't have to go to war with Iran for another 10 years. Thats literally all thats been accomplished based on what Iran is saying. Whats your stance gonna be when Iran announces they have nukes in a decade? They are spitting in the faces of the US delegation and telling them that this changes literally nothing. All you championing that Iran is now civil and will work with the world are out of your minds. We just handed them the keys to the castle and they have free reign to do whatever the fukk they want. But yeah, focus on that bullshyt fatwa and not him saying he's still going to support all of the same enemies of the US that they previously supported. :francis: The situation in Iraq and most of the ME is a direct result of aggressive resistance by Iran and its special forces but y'all just chalk it up to our inept foreign policy.

It's not just Iran.

Russia, China and even India are huge winners because of this deal.

Israel containing Iran never made any sense for the US's geopolitical needs.
In fact if they made peace with the Iranians they could have used them to undercut Russia in the Great Game of Pipelines and Oil and Gas.
Iranian and Qatari gas could have replaced Russian Gas in Europe and screwed over Russia.
Weakening Putin and maybe allowing the Russian 5th column of Pro-western prostitutes the chance to make a coup and take over Russia,
arrange fake elections and then continue the job of selling the country to the West that was curtailed in 1999 when Yeltsin left.

Netanyahu being an annoying jerk made Obama want to sign this deal so that he could get his revenge on him.
He may have even secured the energy needs of India as well by accident and pushed it away from the west, albeit incrementally.

And if Iran gets nukes in 10 years, they will become just like India and Pakistan today. They won't have fear of international sanctions because of China/Russia beefing them up in the interim and shielding them away from any further economic blackmail.
 
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FAH1223

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They were no where near the threat they are now compared to when Saddam was there. Conquering them is not the point nor shouldve been the aim. Opening up Iraq let rogue groups and Iran's asymmetric influence spread essentially unchecked. Sad to say but Iraq needed an iron fist for any remote stability in Iraq and around Iraq...If Saddam could just fukkin chill with his bomb testing on civilians and other bullshyt so brazenly..AND...Cheney wasnt such a smarmy fukk with little George and the neocons having a grudge for saddam battling with HW then none of this shyt would have happened. The biggest powder kegs during Clinton and before 9/11 were Israel/Palestine (remains) and the battle for Kashmir. Now the powder keg has spread over about 6 fukkin countries with hundreds of billions, if not more, at stake..and China/Russia have decidedly better business situations to capitalize on while we are trending downwards. Bush/Cheney started this fukk-up and did so royally. This is a deal that should have been cracked with Iraq not Iran. Saddam wasnt nearly as extreme in rhetoric or foreign affairs..just a Machiavellian ruler with no conscience. Is living in Iraq even decidedly better now than it was under him on average? Legit question, dont really know. Im assuming so but its not like they are the bastion for democracy which was the ultimate wolf ticket pitched by the administration under the umbrella of WMD ducktales.

What is happening is that there is an evolution of trading blocks that are starting to use currency swaps and gold for trade already bypassing the dollar.
This was started by Iran to avoid sanctions, but was found to be useful by its trading partners and they have continued to expand its use beyond
sanctions busting.

China and Russia are bypassing the dollar for Mutual trade, India has done this with Iran despite US pressure and exploring this with South Korea.

The same with Turkey.
Turkey is exploring this with Russian trade now as well.
Malaysia is doing this with Chinese mutual trade and will soon expand to full denomination of trade in other than the dollar.
South Korea and Japan are doing this with China, Egypt has recently been brought into this as well as Saudi Arabia.

Turkey and India are the 2 main countries that officially accept sanctions against Iran but unofficially are its biggest trade partners. They are Iran's best sanction busters. The sanctions against Iran are hurting the Dollar and Euro long term stability because they have encouraged countries like Iran, Turkey, India, Pakistan, China and Russia to trade with each other using currency swaps in their mutual currencies and gold.
This is one of China's many small moves towards the end of dollar hegemony over the world economy, they have been quietly yet furiously encouraging this behind the scenes.

Obama wanted to derail China's long term plans to destroy dollar hegemony and give it a couple more decades to survive, he needed to make a deal and let the international sanctions against Iran go. This'll be done in the Security Council this coming week.

Despite all this I expect a minimum of 25 years for the end of Dollar hegemony due to the resilience of the Dollar, inertia and the caution of the Chinese planners.


Iran's business community (bazaaris) are powerful and influential over the government and they are susceptible to seduction by the world financial elite.
 

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"When critics focus incessantly on the gap between the present deal and a perfect one, what they’re really doing is blaming Obama for the fact that the United States is not omnipotent. This isn’t surprising given that American omnipotence is the guiding assumption behind contemporary Republican foreign policy."

"Obama has certainly made mistakes in the Middle East. But behind his drive for an Iranian nuclear deal is the effort to make American foreign policy “solvent” again by bringing America’s ends into alignment with its means. That means recognizing that the United States cannot bludgeon Iran into total submission, either economically or militarily. The U.S. tried that in Iraq.

It is precisely this recognition that makes the Iran deal so infuriating to Obama’s critics. It codifies the limits of American power. And recognizing the limits of American power also means recognizing the limits of American exceptionalism. It means recognizing that no matter how deeply Americans believe in their country’s unique virtue, the United States is subject to the same restraints that have governed great powers in the past. For the Republican right, that’s a deeply unwelcome realization. For many other Americans, it’s a relief. It’s a sign that, finally, the Bush era in American foreign policy is over."

Why the Iran Deal Makes Obama's Critics So Angry

:wow: So spot on....
So you're going to pretend that I didn't post this exact same article in this thread on the last page :childplease:
 

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All they've done is delay the inevitable war. The only "victory" for the US is that they don't have to go to war with Iran for another 10 years. Thats literally all thats been accomplished based on what Iran is saying. Whats your stance gonna be when Iran announces they have nukes in a decade? They are spitting in the faces of the US delegation and telling them that this changes literally nothing. All you championing that Iran is now civil and will work with the world are out of your minds. We just handed them the keys to the castle and they have free reign to do whatever the fukk they want. But yeah, focus on that bullshyt fatwa and not him saying he's still going to support all of the same enemies of the US that they previously supported. :francis: The situation in Iraq and most of the ME is a direct result of aggressive resistance by Iran and its special forces but y'all just chalk it up to our inept foreign policy.
This is why George Bush is the worst president possibly ever.
 

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It's not just Iran.

Russia, China and even India are huge winners because of this deal.

Israel containing Iran never made any sense for the US's geopolitical needs.
In fact if they made peace with the Iranians they could have used them to undercut Russia in the Great Game of Pipelines and Oil and Gas.
Iranian and Qatari gas could have replaced Russian Gas in Europe and screwed over Russia.
Weakening Putin and maybe allowing the Russian 5th column of Pro-western prostitutes the chance to make a coup and take over Russia,
arrange fake elections and then continue the job of selling the country to the West that was curtailed in 1999 when Yeltsin left.

Netanyahu being an annoying jerk made Obama want to sign this deal so that he could get his revenge on him.
He may have even secured the energy needs of India as well by accident and pushed it away from the west, albeit incrementally.

And if Iran gets nukes in 10 years, they will become just like India and Pakistan today. They won't have fear of international sanctions because of China/Russia beefing them up in the interim and shielding them away from any further economic blackmail.
If Iran gets nukes imagine living in afghanistan :mindblown:

You're surrounded by nukes and are run by insane a$$holes :wtf:
 
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