Venezuela Crisis: Failed coup attempt by Juan Guaido; Military remains supporting Nicholas Maduro

[Berniewood Hogan]

Venezuela tried locking up journalists who reported on this stuff

False.

 

[2Quik4UHoes]

As it stands there are no sanctions on their oil exports. The Trump Admin is actually considering them and ironically enough American oil refiners are lobbying him to reconsider:

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Gotcha. And it is pretty surprising that they’ve gone down this route. The resource wealth would make me think that stability is the best course of action including for American business. It’s not as if Venezuela refuses to do business with anyone. Not that we should’ve ever expected it from this administration but the approach Obama took towards Cuba might’ve worked better in this situation. The way Venezuelan politics is being characterized right now is extremely simplified nearly on some McCarthian “Soshulists r bad” level shyt. Even with the Bolivarian revolution the opposition was still allowed to live and operate. They weren’t liquidated like they were in China, in spite of the exile they haven’t been all forced out like Cuba. They’ve held 20+ elections and their system was lauded as a good solid system. Yet now this country that don’t got its own elections straight wanna chime in.

Isn’t this what happened in Honduras under Hillary as SoS? The Congress said the President should be removed under the Constitution and all heck broke loose.

I remember the Zelaya shyt well. Hilldog was forever on my shyt list after that. fukkin war hawk.

Funny, now these same right wing fukkboys are complaining about migrants from Central America amassing at the border like the Mongol hoards but can’t even make this correlation.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

False.

2017: Venezuelan journalists and media outlets censored and attacked during regional elections

How Food in Venezuela Went From Subsidized to Scarce

 

[Duppy]

Not to take up for the CIA and their BS, I have no doubt they’re doing their bit, but don’t you think Maduro is an absolutely poor leader? Venezuela has gone to shyt, he’s selfish and low down. Most Venezuelans welcome the change and that’s what matters most.

A coup backed by US interests and various far-right governments sure is going to bring about the kind of change that's beneficial to Venezuela and Venezuelans just like all those other CIA ordeals in Latin America

 

[Betty Draper]

A coup backed by US interests and various far-right governments sure is going to bring about the kind of change that's beneficial to Venezuela and Venezuelans just like all those other CIA ordeals in Latin America

I didn’t say that. I’m saying Maduro isn’t a good option. He’s gonna be ousted either way. The people, the US or the military someone’s gonna kick him out and he’ll deserve it. The fact of that matter is, it would be very hard for Venezuela to transition into good leadership straight away but things need to change. It’s really reached breaking point now.

 

[Secure Da Bag]

I didn’t say that. I’m saying Maduro isn’t a good option. He’s gonna be ousted either way. The people, the US or the military someone’s gonna kick him out and he’ll deserve it. The fact of that matter is, it would be very hard for Venezuela to transition into good leadership straight away but things need to change. It’s really reached breaking point now.

So are we waiting for Russia or the EU to liberate us from Trump too? Let the Venezuelan people or the Latin American Union deal with that problem. Lift the sanctions. We're clearly only worried about the oil, not the people. The people, for the politicians, are a convenient excuse.

 

[thatrapsfan]

Gotcha. And it is pretty surprising that they’ve gone down this route. The resource wealth would make me think that stability is the best course of action including for American business. It’s not as if Venezuela refuses to do business with anyone. Not that we should’ve ever expected it from this administration but the approach Obama took towards Cuba might’ve worked better in this situation. The way Venezuelan politics is being characterized right now is extremely simplified nearly on some McCarthian “Soshulists r bad” level shyt. Even with the Bolivarian revolution the opposition was still allowed to live and operate. They weren’t liquidated like they were in China, in spite of the exile they haven’t been all forced out like Cuba. They’ve held 20+ elections and their system was lauded as a good solid system. Yet now this country that don’t got its own elections straight wanna chime in.

IDK I dont see a huge departure from Trump to Obama on this one, nor do I think its as reckless or unilateral as many of the loudest critics are portraying it ( yet at least).

Sure theres simplification from the Trump Admin/Bolsonaro etc about Venezuela, but I see the exact same tendency from the opposite direction from the left.

 

[Betty Draper]

So are we waiting for Russia or the EU to liberate us from Trump too? Let the Venezuelan people or the Latin American Union deal with that problem. Lift the sanctions. We're clearly only worried about the oil, not the people. The people, for the politicians, are a convenient excuse.

I’m not advocating for America to liberate Venezuela. I’m very much aware of America’s geopolitics. I’m just in support of change, the Venezuelans are fighting for change. Have you not seen what has been happening these past years?

 

[Secure Da Bag]

I’m not advocating for America to liberate Venezuela. I’m very much aware of America’s geopolitics. I’m just in support of change, the Venezuelans are fighting for change. Have you not seen what has been happening these past years?

As I said, Let the Venezuelan people or the Latin American Union deal with it. If we're that concerned, for the people, then lift sanctions. Help them do better maintenance on their oil infrastructure. Send them food. Send them basic needs (ex: toilet paper).

 

[thatrapsfan]

It sometimes takes the leverage and influence of powerful states to mark major shifts in intractable situations. Sometimes the influence of powerful states(including the United States) can align with the less harmful alternative/outcome.

I thought the entire leftist aversion to intervention was about armed force, but in this instance that is not even a serious option. The opposition is peaceful and non-violent, as is the recognition theyve received thus far, and many are still fervently against this outcome. Why?

In the same breath,the same folks who oppose "intervention" in all forms, will tacitly support the intervention of powerful states in other conflicts, on account of their opposition to the United States. See full-scale Russian military intervention in Syria, that many of the people yelling Hands off Venezuela fully celebrated.

 

[Secure Da Bag]

It sometimes takes the leverage and influence of powerful states to mark major shifts in intractable situations. Sometimes the influence of powerful states(including the United States) can align with the less harmful alternative/outcome.

If this was about removing an evil dictator and supporting a decent, if not good, democratic socialist, then I'd agree with you. But the US just wants a capitalist at the helm and less antagonistic access to VN's oil. So just because of that, I'm not rolling.

 

[thatrapsfan]

If this was about removing an evil dictator and supporting a decent, if not good, democratic socialist, then I'd agree with you. But the US just wants a capitalist at the helm and less antagonistic access to VN's oil. So just because of that, I'm not rolling.

Yes they want someone less antagonistic, but no its not about oil. The US is Venezuela's top trading partner and the number 1 destination for its oil. There is no blockade or sanctions on Venezuelan oil and the US is not starved for oil imports as it stands.

But besides that, the US's strategic rationale can align with less harmful outcomes. Its not a given that because the US has a policy preference here, that the alternative is automatically better for Venezuela. In this case, it almost certainly is not, especially if there is a change for a transition that does not destroy its remaining institutions and has the broad support of the region.

 

[Secure Da Bag]

Yes they want someone less antagonistic, but no its not about oil. The US is Venezuela's top trading partner and the number 1 destination for its oil. There is no blockade or sanctions on Venezuelan oil and the US is not starved for oil imports as it stands.

What do you think would if the US puts a full stop on VN oil? Trust me. The Prez is not gonna do anything to disrupt the economy. So yeah, they're gonna let that oil flow while fukking them over on things like imports and foods.

But besides that, the US's strategic rationale can align with less harmful outcomes.

True.

Its not a given that because the US has a policy preference here, that the alternative is automatically better for Venezuela.

True.

In this case, it almost certainly is not, especially if there is a change for a transition that does not destroy its remaining institutions and has the broad support of the region.

I already named 3 countries in that list that's in the US' pocket. Again, I don't think this is just LA's "we're tired of Maduro" response. You can provide a carrot instead of a stick to encourage change as well. The carrot in this case is lifting sanctions, sending supplies.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

It sometimes takes the leverage and influence of powerful states to mark major shifts in intractable situations. Sometimes the influence of powerful states(including the United States) can align with the less harmful alternative/outcome.

I thought the entire leftist aversion to intervention was about armed force, but in this instance that is not even a serious option. The opposition is peaceful and non-violent, as is the recognition theyve received thus far, and many are still fervently against this outcome. Why?

In the same breath,the same folks who oppose "intervention" in all forms, will tacitly support the intervention of powerful states in other conflicts, on account of their opposition to the United States. See full-scale Russian military intervention in Syria, that many of the people yelling Hands off Venezuela fully celebrated.

I'm even seeing guys like Michael Brooks (paging @Cole Cash ) point out that this is a test for the left.

He's right.

The USA can change its reputation with this.

But Maduro has to play along.

The people have spoken.

Its time to go.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Yes they want someone less antagonistic, but no its not about oil. The US is Venezuela's top trading partner and the number 1 destination for its oil. There is no blockade or sanctions on Venezuelan oil and the US is not starved for oil imports as it stands.

But besides that, the US's strategic rationale can align with less harmful outcomes. Its not a given that because the US has a policy preference here, that the alternative is automatically better for Venezuela. In this case, it almost certainly is not, especially if there is a change for a transition that does not destroy its remaining institutions and has the broad support of the region.

The USA still has a lot of diplomatic cards on the table.

They haven't even really hit the oil sector like they could...