Video: J. Cole - Heaven’s EP

[Harry B]

We don’t count Travis with the rappers



I rank homie with the Ye’s and Post Malones. I will never put Travis next to Kendrick and Drake. That’s nuts


He in that creative “artist” pocket that probably doesn’t write a single word he says, and has a thousand hands on his music but the finished product sounds great

Isn’t that his whole thing, that he comes up with new ways to rap. Which is why artists fukk with him?

 

[Larry]

Isn’t that his whole thing, that he comes up with new ways to rap. Which is why artists fukk with him?

I mean, I guess so. I like Travis, its not a shot at him...



I just personally can't rank him with the spitters. Same way Kanye is one of my favorite artists of all time, but I'd never in my life rank him next to Jay and Nas, despite me liking his music more than theirs at times.


He occupies a different space than they do. he checks different boxes.. and that's okay

 

[GoldenGlove]

This nikka need to calm down. Lol

Didn't Gibbs say that Cole curved him years ago on a song he wanted him on?

 

[spliz]

Didn't Gibbs say that Cole curved him years ago on a song he wanted him on?

Ionno. If he did I’m pretty sure Gibbs still sensitive about it.

 

[Piff Perkins]

Thoughts?

I like the track but this is an interesting take. A problem that Cole has always had to me is that he's the most normal rapper. There is no mystique to him. He's like a fan who can rap really well, and is now hyper aware of his surroundings and himself. It's like if you knew you were a character in a horror movie...you're probably not gonna go into the attic in the haunted house because you know bad shyt is probably gonna happen right. So when I hear stuff like Let Nas Down, where he's talking about the struggles of making a single and then is like "you made You Owe Me, I thought you'd understand" - or when he was promoting the Off Season and said this is the age where rappers tend to fall off...he's thinking so hard about the music industry instead of music as his art.

Even with the whole basketball aesthetic of the album, where you're practicing your skills so you don't fall off. I hate that analogy because art and athletics aren't the same thing. Your art is your expression of yourself and how you see the world. If your focus is on "I need to rap really well" you can easily miss your mark if the music isn't interesting or honest. I liked Off Season, it's my fave Cole album since FHD. But even at his best (studio album wise) he's not reaching the heights of the guys he's most focused on (Nas/Hov/Kendrick). If you throw Drake in there...Take Care is a great, honest, venerable album and I haven't heard Cole get there lyrically.

I also feel like the more you focus on rapping as a sport, the more you open yourself up to that (wack) Gibbs tweet about mid bars. I hate the idea of "bars" as something that needs to be measured, so every word is dope or whatever. fukk the gymnastics. Do you have something to say or not. And Gibbs, more often than not, has jack shyt to say....

 

[gluvnast]

Thoughts?

I like the track but this is an interesting take. A problem that Cole has always had to me is that he's the most normal rapper. There is no mystique to him. He's like a fan who can rap really well, and is now hyper aware of his surroundings and himself. It's like if you knew you were a character in a horror movie...you're probably not gonna go into the attic in the haunted house because you know bad shyt is probably gonna happen right. So when I hear stuff like Let Nas Down, where he's talking about the struggles of making a single and then is like "you made You Owe Me, I thought you'd understand" - or when he was promoting the Off Season and said this is the age where rappers tend to fall off...he's thinking so hard about the music industry instead of music as his art.

Even with the whole basketball aesthetic of the album, where you're practicing your skills so you don't fall off. I hate that analogy because art and athletics aren't the same thing. Your art is your expression of yourself and how you see the world. If your focus is on "I need to rap really well" you can easily miss your mark if the music isn't interesting or honest. I liked Off Season, it's my fave Cole album since FHD. But even at his best (studio album wise) he's not reaching the heights of the guys he's most focused on (Nas/Hov/Kendrick). If you throw Drake in there...Take Care is a great, honest, venerable album and I haven't heard Cole get there lyrically.

I also feel like the more you focus on rapping as a sport, the more you open yourself up to that (wack) Gibbs tweet about mid bars. I hate the idea of "bars" as something that needs to be measured, so every word is dope or whatever. fukk the gymnastics. Do you have something to say or not. And Gibbs, more often than not, has jack shyt to say....

First and foremost, Shawn Cee is and been a long time J. Cole hater. So whatever drivel that he's spewing it's with absolute bias and a slant of hypocrisy had this been anyone else.

2nd, I dunno what "heights" you claim he's not reaching. J. Cole has LEGENDS. rap icons cosigning him. Just weeks ago Big Daddy Kane proclaimed outright that was his favorite rapper active today. J. Cole entire career he went number one on the Billboard 200, something neither Drake or Kendrick accomplished. He runs a successful label. He has a successful shoe deal. He even briefly played for an international pro team. He has NOTHING left to prove, which is the point of this song. He's self-driven despite it all.

Now you are entitled for your opinion, but it's not by accident that J. Cole's success is where it's at.

 

[Mike the Executioner]

Hes not saying that, hes saying a portion of people do.
with the following bar being a wordplay bar pointing out how he doesnt step into his stardom(lumonisity) like those 2 do. To be seen in the light by that same portion ofpeople like those 2 are.

hes not saying they are better than him as rap artist.

Plus with Cole doing what he did on Off Season, and his statement on competeting with them. I think its obvious hes not trying to contest in the star lane.

But hes not giving up as far as rapping/ rap artist tho, i doubt he is.

It's an interesting line because Kendrick is the most low-key out of all of them. You don't hear from him unless he has music. Other than that, he's communicating through emails and barely using his phone.

But whenever he does come out, it's a huge deal and he's the biggest star in the world. I don't think Cole has ever had that same attention, but he doesn't seek it out which is what makes him #3.

 

[Mike the Executioner]

Thoughts?

I like the track but this is an interesting take. A problem that Cole has always had to me is that he's the most normal rapper. There is no mystique to him. He's like a fan who can rap really well, and is now hyper aware of his surroundings and himself. It's like if you knew you were a character in a horror movie...you're probably not gonna go into the attic in the haunted house because you know bad shyt is probably gonna happen right. So when I hear stuff like Let Nas Down, where he's talking about the struggles of making a single and then is like "you made You Owe Me, I thought you'd understand" - or when he was promoting the Off Season and said this is the age where rappers tend to fall off...he's thinking so hard about the music industry instead of music as his art.

Even with the whole basketball aesthetic of the album, where you're practicing your skills so you don't fall off. I hate that analogy because art and athletics aren't the same thing. Your art is your expression of yourself and how you see the world. If your focus is on "I need to rap really well" you can easily miss your mark if the music isn't interesting or honest. I liked Off Season, it's my fave Cole album since FHD. But even at his best (studio album wise) he's not reaching the heights of the guys he's most focused on (Nas/Hov/Kendrick). If you throw Drake in there...Take Care is a great, honest, venerable album and I haven't heard Cole get there lyrically.

I also feel like the more you focus on rapping as a sport, the more you open yourself up to that (wack) Gibbs tweet about mid bars. I hate the idea of "bars" as something that needs to be measured, so every word is dope or whatever. fukk the gymnastics. Do you have something to say or not. And Gibbs, more often than not, has jack shyt to say....

I think that's part of what makes Cole endearing and relatable. He's aware of his spot and his position in his career, so he wants to challenge the idea that rappers his age are too comfortable and lazy to make classic music anymore. He still has a strong desire to be the best he can possibly be, even though his career has been a huge success. You can tell he's influenced by Eminem because he has a similar mindset when it comes to rap. He's one of those "rhyming is serious" people, but Eminem focuses way too much on technicality and not enough on musicality, which is why he'll never get back the soul and feeling he used to have. Cole avoids this by.......focusing on musicality too, which helps keep him away from the mistakes Eminem makes. Is he hyper-aware of the industry and where he's at in his career? Yes? Does he see rap as a sport? Yes. But that's his thing. Cole isn't trying to be like other rappers. He has his own way of looking at things and making music, which is what makes him who he is.

To go with the whole "rap is a sport" thing, Cole reminds me of CM Punk. Punk was more of an a$$hole than Cole, but Punk took wrestling very seriously. He wanted to be an all-time great, he wanted to be like a modern-day Harley Race, he wanted to be in the main event of WrestleMania. You could say Punk bought into himself too much, but his attitude towards wrestling is what made him successful. He was hyper-aware of how the industry worked, he was a hardcore fan who became a respected wrestler. And all of that helped him get to where he is now, just like Cole with the rap game.

 

[Izanami]

Thoughts?

I like the track but this is an interesting take. A problem that Cole has always had to me is that he's the most normal rapper. There is no mystique to him. He's like a fan who can rap really well, and is now hyper aware of his surroundings and himself. It's like if you knew you were a character in a horror movie...you're probably not gonna go into the attic in the haunted house because you know bad shyt is probably gonna happen right. So when I hear stuff like Let Nas Down, where he's talking about the struggles of making a single and then is like "you made You Owe Me, I thought you'd understand" - or when he was promoting the Off Season and said this is the age where rappers tend to fall off...he's thinking so hard about the music industry instead of music as his art.

Even with the whole basketball aesthetic of the album, where you're practicing your skills so you don't fall off. I hate that analogy because art and athletics aren't the same thing. Your art is your expression of yourself and how you see the world. If your focus is on "I need to rap really well" you can easily miss your mark if the music isn't interesting or honest. I liked Off Season, it's my fave Cole album since FHD. But even at his best (studio album wise) he's not reaching the heights of the guys he's most focused on (Nas/Hov/Kendrick). If you throw Drake in there...Take Care is a great, honest, venerable album and I haven't heard Cole get there lyrically.

I also feel like the more you focus on rapping as a sport, the more you open yourself up to that (wack) Gibbs tweet about mid bars. I hate the idea of "bars" as something that needs to be measured, so every word is dope or whatever. fukk the gymnastics. Do you have something to say or not. And Gibbs, more often than not, has jack shyt to say....

The dude Shawn Cee is corny. There something to be said about an individual who pretends to like an artist but constantly shyts on said artist. “I like J.Cole but…” Nah dude said Cole isn’t as deep as Kendrick but is Kendrick that deep? Does Kendrick have a Mr. nikka or Mathematics in his discography? Is Kendrick outspoken about the system? He said Kendrick gives every crevice of his brain but does he really? I don’t even think Kendrick speaks against the system at the level of Cole. It’s more commentary on his life and his hood and his inner conflict with religion and self. Kendrick is not that deep.

Dude said Cole doesn’t take risk and is too safe. The off season sounds like a mixtape to me and should’ve been hosted by a DJ unlike that Tyler record where Drama had no business on. There’s nothing safe about applying pressure, close, let go my hand, and punchIn the clock. There’s nothing safe about 4 Your Eyez only or KOD. This obsessive need to take the bar about Drake and Dot and make it into agenda is tired. Especially coming from heads we know don’t fukk with Cole.


@Piff Perkins the off season isn’t JUST about Cole flexing his rap skill like he’s been practicing shooting 1000 free throws. There’s introspection and reflection in his rhymes. On my life he says “my family tree got a history of users that struggle with demons, not really the hustlers instincts/therefore my pockets was empty”. I feel like Cole raps real while sprinkling his introspective. I mean “let go my hand” is another great example of honest testimonial something you don’t get from most mainstream acts.

 

[gluvnast]

It's an interesting line because Kendrick is the most low-key out of all of them. You don't hear from him unless he has music. Other than that, he's communicating through emails and barely using his phone.

But whenever he does come out, it's a huge deal and he's the biggest star in the world. I don't think Cole has ever had that same attention, but he doesn't seek it out which is what makes him #3.

I also think J. Cole sees what everyone else is seeing which is this covert beef between his two homies Kendrick and Drake. And Kendrick taking subliminal shots at Drake and talking about smoking people's top 5, and to Cole, he feels he's above all of that. You can say he's in 3rd all you like, yet he believes he can smoke a fellow rapper if he wanted to.

 

[gluvnast]

The dude Shawn Cee is corny. There something to be said about an individual who pretends to like an artist but constantly shyts on said artist. “I like J.Cole but…” Nah dude said Cole isn’t as deep as Kendrick but is Kendrick that deep? Does Kendrick have a Mr. nikka or Mathematics in his discography? Is Kendrick outspoken about the system? He said Kendrick gives every crevice of his brain but does he really? I don’t even think Kendrick speaks against the system at the level of Cole. It’s more commentary on his life and his hood and his inner conflict with religion and self. Kendrick is not that deep.

Dude said Cole doesn’t take risk and is too safe. The off season sounds like a mixtape to me and should’ve been hosted by a DJ unlike that Tyler record where Drama had no business on. There’s nothing safe about applying pressure, close, let go my hand, and punchIn the clock. There’s nothing safe about 4 Your Eyez only or KOD. This obsessive need to take the bar about Drake and Dot and make it into agenda is tired. Especially coming from heads we know don’t fukk with Cole.


@Piff Perkins the off season isn’t JUST about Cole flexing his rap skill like he’s been practicing shooting 1000 free throws. There’s introspection and reflection in his rhymes. On my life he says “my family tree got a history of users that struggle with demons, not really the hustlers instincts/therefore my pockets was empty”. I feel like Cole raps real while sprinkling his introspective. I mean “let go my hand” is another great example of honest testimonial something you don’t get from most mainstream acts.

Don't want to undermine Kendrick, but Kendrick is CREATIVE, but he isn't that deep. A deep rapper would be someone like Lupe Fiasco to where there's layers and multiple meanings to the songs crafted. Kendrick is someone who can take something basic and creatively expand on such basic topic and his creativity plus his marketability make him one of the top elite commercial rappers of the past decade. But what separates him and J. Cole is, in my opinion, is emceeing. And what I mean by that is Kendrick is a superior studio recording artist. He crafts masterworks in his albums. But strictly emceeing and moving the crowd and actually touch the people emotionally, he's NOT J. Cole. The power of J. Cole is his knack of touching the people, provide introspective thought, give them emotional content. That's the pure definition of emceeing. For instance, I do not believe Kendrick could ever pull off a BE FREE like J. Cole did live years ago at the Letterman show. Or recently with the joint Close off his last album. The fact we are deep diving over lyrics and their meaning behind them off a loosey J. Cole track points to Cole's power to even say the simplest shyt and it'll be profound enough to have full discussions about it.

And yes, Shawn Cee is a cornball for real. I mean just about EVERYTHING J. Cole done been against the grain. Talking about he doesn't take risks when he doesn't rely on radio to dictate how he should sell. Someone who, while Kanye was still significantly popular went head to head with him with Born Sinner, a risk sales-wise to even attempt. Releasing 2014 FHD without any features and barely announced one week prior going head to head against Nicki's album was a risk. Like you said, doing a conceptual album, like 4YEO dedicating to his deceased friend while it paralleled him becoming a father was a creative risk. Doing another concept album with KOD which spoke on insecurities, depression, drugs, addiction, and escapism within a young society. I mean, Shawn Cee is mainly a hater and a hypocrite because let that be Kendrick who decides his next upcoming album he's just going to spit bars over dope beats like Cole did for Off-Season, and Shawn would be all over Kendrick's dikk for giving the fans what they want.

 

[Piff Perkins]

The dude Shawn Cee is corny. There something to be said about an individual who pretends to like an artist but constantly shyts on said artist. “I like J.Cole but…” Nah dude said Cole isn’t as deep as Kendrick but is Kendrick that deep? Does Kendrick have a Mr. nikka or Mathematics in his discography? Is Kendrick outspoken about the system? He said Kendrick gives every crevice of his brain but does he really? I don’t even think Kendrick speaks against the system at the level of Cole. It’s more commentary on his life and his hood and his inner conflict with religion and self. Kendrick is not that deep.

Dude said Cole doesn’t take risk and is too safe. The off season sounds like a mixtape to me and should’ve been hosted by a DJ unlike that Tyler record where Drama had no business on. There’s nothing safe about applying pressure, close, let go my hand, and punchIn the clock. There’s nothing safe about 4 Your Eyez only or KOD. This obsessive need to take the bar about Drake and Dot and make it into agenda is tired. Especially coming from heads we know don’t fukk with Cole.


@Piff Perkins the off season isn’t JUST about Cole flexing his rap skill like he’s been practicing shooting 1000 free throws. There’s introspection and reflection in his rhymes. On my life he says “my family tree got a history of users that struggle with demons, not really the hustlers instincts/therefore my pockets was empty”. I feel like Cole raps real while sprinkling his introspective. I mean “let go my hand” is another great example of honest testimonial something you don’t get from most mainstream acts.

I’d agree Off Season has introspective songs, especially Close and Let Go My Hand. But overall the album to me feels like a lyrical exercise where much of it doesn't reach beyond the typical Cole tropes or interests.

I'd def say 4YEO wasn't safe and also displayed Cole fixing one of his biggest problems in my eyes: the inability to create multi faceted characters. That last track is still his best storytelling track to me. Most of Cole's early storytelling (especially Lost Ones, arguably the track that put him on the map for many ppl) was simplistic and one note to me. Cookie cutter characters he could argue with and bat down, with little emotion. Whereas rappers like Common, Andre, Nas, and Kendrick are far better at presenting a character that feels real and is multi faceted and emotional.

I don't think Kendrick is "deep" in the way many people say he's deep. I think he's an evocative lyricist who has mastered the ability to paint realistic pictures and bring them to life while expressing emotion through his music. He's not trying to fix the world or give you answers. And I'd simply ask people, what answers did Marvin Gaye give you? None. That's not the artist's job. Kendrick is at his best when he examines himself - and people take whatever they're going to take from that. TPAB is a deeply personal album that people decided to paint as the blackedy blackest black album of all time. Yes it touches on a lot of the black experience but it's far more personal and micro than macro. But the fact that so many people had deep emotional reactions to it kinda proves my point...Kendrick resonates on a level that Cole doesn't, for many people.

 

[Paper Boi]

great beat, sad to see it go to waste twice

 

[HDiron]

He’s too humble. Not sure why he said he’s 3rd. He’s absolutely 2nd and Drake is 1st. Kendrick should not even be mentioned. Kendrick is trash and his voice is unlistenable to.

 

[brianwuzhere]

Math Hoffa just posted this on his channel, Drake giving Cole his flowers: