Washington State Carbon Tax - Measure 732.

[88m3]

Raising the price of gas doesnt hurt the poor?

I think the poor hawked their cars in the cash for clunkers debacle.



Anyways this seems to be the trickle down

• A one percentage point reduction in the state sales tax — saving hundreds of dollars per year for an average household in Washington.
• Funding the Working Families Tax Rebate to provide up to $1,500 a year for 460,000 low-income households.
• Keeping living-wage jobs in our state by lowering the Business & Occupation tax on manufacturing from as much as 0.484 percent to 0.001 percent of gross receipts, effectively eliminating the tax.

Which at face value sounds good...

 

[Ed MOTHERFUCKING G]

I think the poor hawked their cars in the cash for clunkers debacle.



Anyways this seems to be the trickle down

• A one percentage point reduction in the state sales tax — saving hundreds of dollars per year for an average household in Washington.
• Funding the Working Families Tax Rebate to provide up to $1,500 a year for 460,000 low-income households.
• Keeping living-wage jobs in our state by lowering the Business & Occupation tax on manufacturing from as much as 0.484 percent to 0.001 percent of gross receipts, effectively eliminating the tax.

Which at face value sounds good...

This ignores every business passing the cost of .25 gas increase to their customers.

 

[88m3]

This ignores every business passing the cost of .25 gas increase to their customers.

Which in the grand scheme of things is what? I don't believe it's a good enough justification on your part. Gas is already extremely cheap and should continue to be.

What is your current sales tax?

 

[Ed MOTHERFUCKING G]

Which in the grand scheme of things is what? I don't believe it's a good enough justification on your part. Gas is already extremely cheap and should continue to be.

What is your current sales tax?

9.6%

 

[StatUS]

That's not trickle down economics. They're not saying that by cutting certain taxes, it will encourage businesses to invest. It is behavioral economics, they are making it more costly to not be green. A logical person would then switch to other sources of power, and coal and gas would probably be as costly as the alternative sources of energy so there would be no point to keep using them.

FYI, it is impossible to be a social liberal and a fiscal conservative. That's only if you think being a social liberal is stuff like LGBT rights only. But if you have empathy for the poor, and think about things like poor schooling and lack of opportunity, that requires spending. Moreover, you have no state income tax.

When people say that about themselves they're talking about being conservative with their wallets and comparing that to government budgets which is always silly to me.

Sidenote: fukk Gary Johnson.

 

[Berniewood Hogan]

If people werent idiots they would embrace nuclear. And this is coming from someone who was born near TMI.

CRACK THE SECRETS OF THE UNIVERSE ITSELF AND THEN BURN OLD BURIED TREES AND DINOSAURS TO MAKE YOUR WHEELS SPIN, BREHS!

 

[Scoop]

I drive less than 500 miles a month, bus daily, walk reguarly. Thats not the point. this isn't just about the cost at the pump

The price for the bus will go up
The price for uber will go up
The price for postmates
The price for shipping and other logistics will go up
The price for trucking will go up

The gas tax +.25/gallon isnt just at the shell station

"Do stuff to avoid the tax" isn't a legit answer when voting NO is what will avoid the tax in the first place.

But isn't that the point of a carbon tax?

 

[88m3]

9.6%

so cutting that by 1% would largely benefit the poor...

 

[Ed MOTHERFUCKING G]

so cutting that by 1% would largely benefit the poor...

Not when the cost of goods and services goes up because of fuel costs rising by .25/gal

 

[Tate]

I think the poor hawked their cars in the cash for clunkers debacle.



Anyways this seems to be the trickle down

• A one percentage point reduction in the state sales tax — saving hundreds of dollars per year for an average household in Washington.
• Funding the Working Families Tax Rebate to provide up to $1,500 a year for 460,000 low-income households.
• Keeping living-wage jobs in our state by lowering the Business & Occupation tax on manufacturing from as much as 0.484 percent to 0.001 percent of gross receipts, effectively eliminating the tax.

Which at face value sounds good...

Yeah I'm not a fiscal policy head but this doesn't that regressive. I'm sure there's a better way to do it but what's that word you libs love? Compromise?

But isn't that the point of a carbon tax?

Exactly. Carbon tax is pretty basic neoliberal(which I don't use necessarily as an insult here) stuff. Redirecting incentives so as to encourage market activity to a desired end.



(yeah boys I passed my Econ policy class what of it?)

 

[Ed MOTHERFUCKING G]

But isn't that the point of a carbon tax?

That's the point of those who want the carbon tax, yes, but my point was that those who want it say to those who don't to just change their behavior to avoid the cost....that's my POINT...I don't want the increase to begin with, so telling me to change is moot. Changing my an action to avoid a tax is a no sell when the initial action to avoid it is to vote no.

 

[88m3]

Not when the cost of goods and services goes up because of fuel costs rising by .25/gal

I really don't see it offsetting the benefits proposed. Will things increase to cover that cost? Of course but lets not frame it like every item/service will increasing by .25 cents/gal. We're talking pennies or fractions of pennies.


Also I realize clean energy initiatives can seem "intangible" but if the state and populace have a safer environment with a better standard of living, that is less prone to natural disasters that can cost taxpayers like you billions....

 

[Ed MOTHERFUCKING G]

I really don't see it offsetting the benefits proposed. Will things increase to cover that cost? Of course but lets not frame it like every item/service will increasing by .25 cents/gal. We're talking pennies or fractions of pennies.


Also I realize clean energy initiatives can seem "intangible" but if the state and populace have a safer environment with a better standard of living, that is less prone to natural disasters that can cost taxpayers like you billions....

Good retort, but the bolded is where we will have to differ. I think that .25 cents /gal is heavier than people realize and will be an excuse to raise prices on transportation and shipping especially, and it will outweigh the 1% tax reduction....

 

[Scoop]

That's the point of those who want the carbon tax, yes, but my point was that those who want it say to those who don't to just change their behavior to avoid the cost....that's my POINT...I don't want the increase to begin with, so telling me to change is moot. Changing my an action to avoid a tax is a no sell when the initial action to avoid it is to vote no.

Well I mean, the idea is is that you do it to protect the environment, even if you end up paying a bit more.

If you only look at the downside of the tax, then yes, of course you're going to vote against it.

 

[Regular_P]

I think this should be getting done on a federal level to finally get us away from fossil fuels, but this is a start and hopefully it catches on with other states. I'll be voting for it.