He might be the best all around player in the league right now. Curry can score as effortless as anyone who's ever played the game, maybe more effortless than anyone who's ever played the game, but when you factor in everything else I think it's safe to say Westbrook's got him. He's a better defender, passer, rebounder, and can score almost as effectively.
Westbrook has had 23 triple - doubles in the past 2 seasons
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He might be the best all around player in the league right now. Curry can score as effortless as anyone who's ever played the game, maybe more effortless than anyone who's ever played the game, but when you factor in everything else I think it's safe to say Westbrook's got him. He's a better defender, passer, rebounder, and can score almost as effectively.
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The difference in the defensive impact is marginal, especially since Westbrook doesn't tend to make the best decisions on that end and Curry does (despite his lack of ability to contest shots and move players). Passing is one thing they're pretty much neck and neck in - Westbrook is very ball-dominant and naturally he's going to get more assists, but don't confuse more assists with being a better passer. Rebounding, yeah absolutely and although I don't put much stock into PG rebounding (as it doesn't generally have much impact on the game), Westbrook grabs A LOT of contested rebounds. Scoring - Curry is quite comfortably ahead of him - I don't think it's particularly close. Simply because of how efficient he is.
Yea right after I posted I considered clarifying that Westbrook isn't necessarily a better passer, maybe just a more willing passer. Curry's averaging 20 shots a game this season Westbrook is averaging 18, and considering that Westbrook definitely dominates the ball more, the fact that he's averaging 4 more assists per game while putting up less shots, I think it's safe to say he's the more willing passer. I stand by the better defender claim, I think Curry's defense is overrated and I'd feel much better about Westbrook matching up with 2 guards and even some SFs who are much bigger than him where as Steph I believe would get backed down and bullied in the post by bigger SGs and SFs, he gets his steals which makes up for some of his shortcomings as a perimeter/man defender, but really I think it's the presence of Iggy and Draymond and just great defense all around that makes him look like a much better defender than he really is. And a rebound is a rebound and Westbrooks averaging 7.7 this season which is absolutely incredible for a 6'3" PG (Curry's getting 5.4 which is great for a PG too).
I'm not mad at all at anyone who says Curry is the better player, but personally I think Westbrook is the better all around player.
Would GS be as good with Westbrook? I don't know, but I definitely don't think OKC would be any better with Curry. And building a team from scratch I think would be easier to do with Westbrook than Curry. Just my opinion on that obviously, but honestly right now Westbrook would probably be my 2nd overall pick to start a franchise behind only Anthony Davis because of his age.
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Originalgangsta317
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How exactly are you measuring their willingness to pass? And what exactly does that mean in the grand scheme of things?
Curry gives the ball up and moves the ball more than Westbrook does (partly because he has more able playmakers on his squad), but mostly because he's more capable of playing off the ball and playing within the flow of the offense - rather than having his teammates sacrifice their touches/rhythm/involvement. I wouldn't simply go off their shots attempts, as not only does it not give a clear indication of their tendency to shoot/pass, and not only do their respective teams have polar opposite offensive schemes (it's harder for Curry to put up a high # of assists due to how often the Warriors move the ball), but because it doesn't take into account FTAs which would be shot attempts - particularly in Westbrook's case.
Since Curry makes 56.7 passes per game on only 5.4 minutes of time of possession and Westbrook makes 58.8 passes per game on 8.1 minutes of time of possession, it leads to Curry being the more willing passer as he makes more passes on a time of possession per minute basis.
Westbrook is the better defender, but again he has a tendency to NOT make the best decisions, whereas Curry typically does. The defensive impact that Westbrook has over Curry is marginal, despite having more defensive ability.
A rebound is simply not just a rebound - it's important to value them in terms of not only uncontested/contested but what context they have in the game and how they're being grabbed. Westbrook is one of the very few PGs that's ever played the game that has genuine impact on the boards, in saying that he does have a tendency to leave his defensive assignment to go looking for them (which ties in to the above on how he doesn't make the best decisions on defense).
I've never really understood how folk talk about a player being better all around, as if it means anything. A player's impact isn't based on how well he is in every generic area of the game, especially if we're talking about PGs.
Of course they wouldn't be - their entire offense would be drastically different and less effective - taking away from all the basic functions of their system: moving the ball, 3-pt shooting, Curry's gravity, off ball movement and the differences in late-game execution.
It depends, I mean if there's any PG that could make up for Westbrook's ability to creates chaos and collapse defenses while providing the same level of scoring aggressiveness - it would be Curry.
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who_better_than_me
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One plays in an actual system with other facilitators and the other one plays in no system. Somethjn to keep in mind.
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The Warriors' "system" only works because Curry can play off the ball just as well as he plays on it - there's no motion offense if you replaced him with a ball-dominant PG. There wouldn't be much of a system if he dominated the ball like Westbrook does, and although not to take anything away from Westbrook (as OKC do need him to control the offense - due to a lack of ballhandlers), the margin in scoring impact doesn't really have anything to do with their respective systems.
I don't think folk really understand the true value of Curry's ability to play off the ball/scoring his points within the flow of the offense.
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Best all around PG in the NBA.
Best all around PG in the NBA.
This might be mean and unfair, but....
30.1ppg on 63.3% eFG shooting
23.7ppg on 49.0% eFG shooting
16.9ppg on 41.4% eFG shooting
In other words, 2016 Russell Westbrook is so far from 2016 Stephen Curry on scoring effectiveness....
that the gap between Curry and Westbrook is bigger than the gap between Westbrook and 2016 Kobe.
I don't buy "better defender". Westbrook might have better defensive capabilities, but like GSH said, he makes awful decisions. Durant has become an above-average defender and Ibaka cleans some stuff up....Westbrook is a big part of the reason that the Thunder are still so mediocre on defense. I put him and Curry about equal there, and I think Curry fits into a defensive scheme better than Westbrook can.
And yeah, Westbrook changed his game this year to get more assists, while Curry changed his game to get fewer. Until then they averaged the same # of assists/game. But Westbrook didn't suddenly become a "better passer", it's just that Curry is such an incredible scorer that he's realizing the more he shoots, the better off the team is, while Westbrook realized the exact opposite.
And with that increased passing has come dramatically increased turnovers - Westbrook is 2nd in the league with 4.3 turnovers/game, while Curry is at only 3.2 despite higher usage numbers than Westbrook.
Which is why "can score almost as effectively" is just a ridiculous claim. Westbrook is averaging 23.7ppg this year on 55% true shooting. Meanwhile, Curry is averaging 30.1ppg on 67% true shooting. Westbrook is a career 44/30/82 guy....this season, his most efficient scoring year, is still less efficient than Curry's rookie season, his least efficient year. And it's not even close.
So when you're comparing them, you're comparing Curry's far better scoring (6.5 more ppg, 51/45/91 to 46/30/81) to Westbrook's 2 extra boards and recent higher willingness to pass (but turnovers).
I'm taking Curry, and everyone else is too.
Absolutely no chance that GS would be as good with Westbrook. What would happen on OKC is harder to figure out....but they're stuck at "a good offense, poor defense, always blows leads and has no chance of getting out of the conference", so I don't think that's much to brag about.
Westbrook gets to play with arguably the best player in the league (and Durant might be the GOAT insert-able star - there's literally no one his game wouldn't work with), and another really strong piece in Ibaka, and OKC still only threatened when they had Harden and Thabo too. I'm not saying that you can't build a great team around Westbrook, but there isn't exactly a lot of strong evidence that it's easy.
Now that Curry has figured out that his shooting is a real-life cheat code, it's hard to see how he wouldn't be the prime piece anywhere. But there isn't all that much data on him either, of course, with Golden State setting up so well together.
I'd still build around Curry or Durant first, maybe Lebron if we're talking a 1-year shot....Westbrook might not even make top-5 with Kawhi and AD waiting.
30.1ppg on 63.3% eFG shooting
23.7ppg on 49.0% eFG shooting
16.9ppg on 41.4% eFG shooting
In other words, 2016 Russell Westbrook is so far from 2016 Stephen Curry on scoring effectiveness....
that the gap between Curry and Westbrook is bigger than the gap between Westbrook and 2016 Kobe.
I don't buy "better defender". Westbrook might have better defensive capabilities, but like GSH said, he makes awful decisions. Durant has become an above-average defender and Ibaka cleans some stuff up....Westbrook is a big part of the reason that the Thunder are still so mediocre on defense. I put him and Curry about equal there, and I think Curry fits into a defensive scheme better than Westbrook can.
And yeah, Westbrook changed his game this year to get more assists, while Curry changed his game to get fewer. Until then they averaged the same # of assists/game. But Westbrook didn't suddenly become a "better passer", it's just that Curry is such an incredible scorer that he's realizing the more he shoots, the better off the team is, while Westbrook realized the exact opposite.
And with that increased passing has come dramatically increased turnovers - Westbrook is 2nd in the league with 4.3 turnovers/game, while Curry is at only 3.2 despite higher usage numbers than Westbrook.
Which is why "can score almost as effectively" is just a ridiculous claim. Westbrook is averaging 23.7ppg this year on 55% true shooting. Meanwhile, Curry is averaging 30.1ppg on 67% true shooting. Westbrook is a career 44/30/82 guy....this season, his most efficient scoring year, is still less efficient than Curry's rookie season, his least efficient year. And it's not even close.
So when you're comparing them, you're comparing Curry's far better scoring (6.5 more ppg, 51/45/91 to 46/30/81) to Westbrook's 2 extra boards and recent higher willingness to pass (but turnovers).
I'm taking Curry, and everyone else is too.
Absolutely no chance that GS would be as good with Westbrook. What would happen on OKC is harder to figure out....but they're stuck at "a good offense, poor defense, always blows leads and has no chance of getting out of the conference", so I don't think that's much to brag about.
Westbrook gets to play with arguably the best player in the league (and Durant might be the GOAT insert-able star - there's literally no one his game wouldn't work with), and another really strong piece in Ibaka, and OKC still only threatened when they had Harden and Thabo too. I'm not saying that you can't build a great team around Westbrook, but there isn't exactly a lot of strong evidence that it's easy.
Now that Curry has figured out that his shooting is a real-life cheat code, it's hard to see how he wouldn't be the prime piece anywhere. But there isn't all that much data on him either, of course, with Golden State setting up so well together.
I'd still build around Curry or Durant first, maybe Lebron if we're talking a 1-year shot....Westbrook might not even make top-5 with Kawhi and AD waiting.
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DIMES
Retired troll
Westbrook is better than curry in EVERY single in the game Except shot selection, jumpshot and iq which isn't saying much lolThis might be mean and unfair, but....
30.1ppg on 63.3% eFG shooting
23.7ppg on 49.0% eFG shooting
16.9ppg on 41.4% eFG shooting
In other words, 2016 Russell Westbrook is so far from 2016 Stephen Curry on scoring effectiveness....
that the gap between Curry and Westbrook is bigger than the gap between Westbrook and 2016 Kobe.
I don't buy "better defender". Westbrook might have better defensive capabilities, but like GSH said, he makes awful decisions. Durant has become an above-average defender and Ibaka cleans some stuff up....Westbrook is a big part of the reason that the Thunder are still so mediocre on defense. I put him and Curry about equal there, and I think Curry fits into a defensive scheme better than Westbrook can.
And yeah, Westbrook changed his game this year to get more assists, while Curry changed his game to get fewer. Until then they averaged the same # of assists/game. But Westbrook didn't suddenly become a "better passer", it's just that Curry is such an incredible scorer that he's realizing the more he shoots, the better off the team is, while Westbrook realized the exact opposite.
And with that increased passing has come dramatically increased turnovers - Westbrook is 2nd in the league with 4.3 turnovers/game, while Curry is at only 3.2 despite higher usage numbers than Westbrook.
Which is why "can score almost as effectively" is just a ridiculous claim. Westbrook is averaging 23.7ppg this year on 55% true shooting. Meanwhile, Curry is averaging 30.1ppg on 67% true shooting. Westbrook is a career 44/30/82 guy....this season, his most efficient scoring year, is still less efficient than Curry's rookie season, his least efficient year. And it's not even close.
So when you're comparing them, you're comparing Curry's far better scoring (6.5 more ppg, 51/45/91 to 46/30/81) to Westbrook's 2 extra boards and recent higher willingness to pass (but turnovers).
I'm taking Curry, and everyone else is too.
Absolutely no chance that GS would be as good with Westbrook. What would happen on OKC is harder to figure out....but they're stuck at "a good offense, poor defense, always blows leads and has no chance of getting out of the conference", so I don't think that's much to brag about.
Westbrook gets to play with arguably the best player in the league (and Durant might be the GOAT insert-able star - there's literally no one his game wouldn't work with), and another really strong piece in Ibaka, and OKC still only threatened when they had Harden and Thabo too. I'm not saying that you can't build a great team around Westbrook, but there isn't exactly a lot of strong evidence that it's easy.
Now that Curry has figured out that his shooting is a real-life cheat code, it's hard to see how he wouldn't be the prime piece anywhere. But there isn't all that much data on him either, of course, with Golden State setting up so well together.
I'd still build around Curry or Durant first, maybe Lebron if we're talking a 1-year shot....Westbrook might not even make top-5 with Kawhi and AD waiting.
Go up to any basketball coach. Say to him, "I've got a point guard for you who is better than yours in everything except shot selection, jump shot, and IQ. And his passing is about the same. You want to trade?"
You're not going to get that trade.
Name 3 of the 4 most important skills for a point guard.
You're not going to get that trade.
Name 3 of the 4 most important skills for a point guard.
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Have a triple double against da 76ers brehs