Religion/Spirituality What Are the Benefits of Atheism?

[Julius Skrrvin]

It was, but this thread is already fukked by being full of your suppositions, ie that morality comes exclusively from religion (empathic conduct between humans has biological basis, so that's already screwed), and morality has and also can come from several different philosophical systems. I agree that at the beginning of things, religion was a powerful tool for binding cultures and providing the kind of absolutism needed to rule an early civilization. I also believe that it is good for the purpose of redeeming people who are at the bottom of the barrel: criminals, drug addicts, etc etc. But for the average person? It's better to throw organized religion by the wayside and focus on family, community, and the tangible physical world. You may not believe that religion is a waste of time, but it is from a rational standpoint; prayer has no observed and documented benefit, apart from a psychological one that could be obtained through say, meditation. You could argue that religion contributes to the economy, but it is so tax exempt that we end up subsidizing a great deal of it as well.

 

[Brown_Pride]

IDK, a lot of people seem to be confused about religion because you and I are thinking of 2 totally different things. How does religion "impede progress"? Why do you think religion prevents us from bettering mankind? Furthermore, what has atheism done to better mankind? I have already given the example of how religion improved the life of Malcolm X. Is there a similar example within atheism? Can you give an example of atheism making someone a better person? In particular, in terms of helping humanity?

The power-hungry manipulators part, I can agree with that in some cases, but I would call that "power hungry manipulation" and differentiate it from actual religion. A lot of things can be used as tools in manipulation.

on point.
This is what most people don't realize. When an atheist person speakson religion it's not the same religion a religious person speaks on. Same name whole different beast essentially.

A rapist is not a religious person, though he may use religion to commit crimes.

An atheist can't see that.

@daze23
so picking a belief because it benefits you is bad? And you "pick" atheism because you can't explain certain things about religion?

As a very crude comparison religion is like playing a free lottery. Athiesm is saying no to play that same lottery because you don't know if it's real. It's free, why not? Quite literally wth do you have to lose.

 

[daze23]

Yeah but religion is faith based anyway so you can't really determine "truth" as easily as you can type it. Theism/atheism can never be about "truth" because neither side can adequately prove their case. Instead, it's based on beliefs. What one person believes to be true, another may not believe to be true. So who's right? The correct answer is it doesn't really matter.

In this particular case, I think both sides have some validity to their argument. So now what?

My question isn't to determine what the truth is. It's more me trying to figure out if this ideology is worth my time.

you should go with whatever you feel is more valid. if you find being in the 'middle' more valid, then so be it

 

[The_Sheff]

on point.
This is what most people don't realize. When an atheist person speakson religion it's not the same religion a religious person speaks on. Same name whole different beast essentially.

A rapist is not a religious person, though he may use religion to commit crimes.

An atheist can't see that.

@daze23
so picking a belief because it benefits you is bad? And you "pick" atheism because you can't explain certain things about religion?

As a very crude comparison religion is like playing a free lottery. Athiesm is saying no to play that same lottery because you don't know if it's real. It's free, why not? Quite literally wth do you have to lose.

That makes no sense at all.

If God is real he would be able to see through that sham of a belief. How can you believe your higher power will look at you favorably if the only reason you are following his word is because you are simply hedging your bets on there being an afterlife.

 

[Brown_Pride]

It's better to throw organized religion by the wayside and focus on family, community, and the tangible physical world.

Aside from throwing religion to the bushes, this is more or less what my church does I could join the Shriners i suppose to achieve the same affect ?

You may not believe that religion is a waste of time, but it is from a rational standpoint; prayer has no observed and documented benefit, apart from a psychological one that could be obtained through say, meditation.

Does it have a observed and documented negative affect? Prayer, from my experience has never been "bad". As you've stated, "no affect except a good psychological on..."
[/QUOTE]

It sounds like the beef with religion is actually with the various institutions, and not "god" persay? In that respect one could liken religion to government.

There is no "harm" done by believing in god. There can be harm created by those who believe in God, but that's not exclusive to religion.

When you take out all the commonalities between belief and disbelief you have one thing remaining and that's the afterlife. If you're ok with believing that doesn't exist then that's you. If you're right you die into nothingness, if you're wrong .

The choice really is that simple.

 

[Johnny Kilroy]

It was, but this thread is already fukked by being full of your suppositions, ie that morality comes exclusively from religion (empathic conduct between humans has biological basis, so that's already screwed), and morality has and also can come from several different philosophical systems. I agree that at the beginning of things, religion was a powerful tool for binding cultures and providing the kind of absolutism needed to rule an early civilization. I also believe that it is good for the purpose of redeeming people who are at the bottom of the barrel: criminals, drug addicts, etc etc. But for the average person? It's better to throw organized religion by the wayside and focus on family, community, and the tangible physical world. You may not believe that religion is a waste of time, but it is from a rational standpoint; prayer has no observed and documented benefit, apart from a psychological one that could be obtained through say, meditation. You could argue that religion contributes to the economy, but it is so tax exempt that we end up subsidizing a great deal of it as well.

When did anyone say "morality comes exclusively from religion"?

I said religion teaches morals, atheism, itself, does not. Now how does that equate to "morality comes exclusively from religion"?

Furthermore, doesn't religion also teach about family and community? So why does one need to throw religion in the bushes to do that? And you can't be religious and study the tangible physical world?

Then you go on to say "prayer has no observed and documented benefit, apart from a psychological one". Ok, so there's a benefit. You can get it from meditation? Ok, so there's a benefit there too. Both of those activities would have some benefit according to you, and I would have to agree.

But I'm asking for one benefit of atheism and you're tossing around benefits of religion and then immediately blowing them off. Like "this drug will save your life BUT, it will only save your life once."

So I thank you for pointing out some benefits of religion, but I was asking abut some benefits of atheism.

 

[Brown_Pride]

That makes no sense at all.

If God is real he would be able to see through that sham of a belief. How can you believe your higher power will look at you favorably if the only reason you are following his word is because you are simply hedging your bets on there being an afterlife.

Proverbs: 9:10
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

I try not to presume what God see's through nor how or by what means he views the world and the people in it. I believe if you were to start believing in God because of the "benefit" then you would ultimately end up believing because of the love. I believe this because i've seen it time and time again.

Even still worst case is you end up where you were going anyway.

 

[MidniteJay]

What you just posted is the equivalent pf me saying "Be a Christian because you will not go to hell."

Not really an equivalent. You can't just "be a Christian" to escape hell. You have to try every day and MEAN it on top of loving an entity you can't see not just on Sundays (or Saturdays if you're an SVA). Trying to be Christ-like is what it's required to be a Christian.

"Yeah I believe in God" alone isn't gonna guarantee you to walk through the gates of Paradise.

An Atheist doesn't have to try or worry about staying out of hell because he doesn't believe in it and it doesn't exist for him.

To Christians, hell is a possibility if they screw up in the eyes of God when it's time.

 

[Johnny Kilroy]

you should go with whatever you feel is more valid. if you find being in the 'middle' more valid, then so be it

I feel you. And please, don't think I'm here looking for someone to make up my mind. But if I want to learn about something, I generally ask those who know. I wouldn't ask a Muslim to teach me about atheism the same as I wouldn't ask a mathematician to teach me about literature.

But when making my decision I want as much information as possible. That's why I ask questions.

 

[The_Sheff]

Proverbs: 9:10
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

I try not to presume what God see's through nor how or by what means he views the world and the people in it. I believe if you were to start believing in God because of the "benefit" then you would ultimately end up believing because of the love. I believe this because i've seen it time and time again.

Even still worst case is you end up where you were going anyway.

I have also seen it go the other way where people went into church trying to force themselves to believe and got nothing out of it.

So again, at the end of the day you either are going to have the love of God in your heart or you wont. Forcing yourself to sit in a room is not going to help you one way or the other.

And you say there is no downside. Wasting 2 hours of your day doing something you dont believe every Sunday isnt a downside?

 

[Johnny Kilroy]

Not really an equivalent. You can't just "be a Christian" to escape hell. You have to try every day and MEAN it on top of loving an entity you can't see not just on Sundays (or Saturdays if you're an SVA). Trying to be Christ-like is what it's required to be a Christian.

"Yeah I believe in God" alone isn't gonna guarantee you to walk through the gates of Paradise.

An Atheist doesn't have to try or worry about staying out of hell because he doesn't believe in it and it doesn't exist for him.

To Christians, hell is a possibility if they screw up in the eyes of God when it's time.

And I don't believe atheists are better in bed, so like "hell" to an atheist, that list was BS to me.

They are equivalent in that none of it means anything to the other person. You just proved my point without realizing it.

 

[Johnny Kilroy]

I have also seen it go the other way where people went into church trying to force themselves to believe and got nothing out of it.

So again, at the end of the day you either are going to have the love of God in your heart or you wont. Forcing yourself to sit in a room is not going to help you one way or the other.

And you say there is no downside. Wasting 2 hours of your day doing something you dont believe every Sunday isnt a downside?

But what if at the end of those 2 hours you decided you didn't believe? Then was that time truly wasted? I would say "no" because the person learned something.

Never heard of anyone going to church to force themselves to believe though. Not saying it doesn't happen , that just sounds strange to me.

 

[Brown_Pride]

I have also seen it go the other way where people went into church trying to force themselves to believe and got nothing out of it.

So again, at the end of the day you either are going to have the love of God in your heart or you wont. Forcing yourself to sit in a room is not going to help you one way or the other.

... a person tries, it doesn't catch. Nothing lost but what? Time? A TV show? Watching some guys throw a football around?

And you say there is no downside. Wasting 2 hours of your day doing something you dont believe every Sunday isnt a downside?

If you want the benefit you gotta put in the work.Belief is the work. If you don't believe you don't benefit. If you try to believe you don't benefit. You will never believe if you don't try. Not trying has a 100% failure rate. Trying does not.

ultimately IMHO trying > saying fuk it. Especially when weighed against "2 hours" i know dudes spending more time playing madden daily.

 

[daze23]

@daze23
so picking a belief because it benefits you is bad?

uh, yeah. at best it's selfish. what does personal benefit have to do with what's "true"?

And you "pick" atheism because you can't explain certain things about religion?

I don't follow...

As a very crude comparison religion is like playing a free lottery. Athiesm is saying no to play that same lottery because you don't know if it's real. It's free, why not? Quite literally wth do you have to lose.

I don't think it is a "free" lottery, since it requires me to accept something I don't accept

 

[Ian1362]

You dont spend your life preparing for some end goal, it makes the everyday experience more enjoyable IMO


It doesn't really have anything to do with not having a moral compass. I'm still keen on natural law, treat others as you would like to be treated, etc, and it still feels good to help people out. I volunteer from time to time and am surrounded by religious people who are amazed that I don't follow religion. People like to think atheism is an excuse to do whatever you want.

My parents are both Christians but I just never thought the whole story it painted was very convincing once I started really thinking about it.

There are a lot of athiests who really hate religion/followers but I have no beef there, a lot of religious people are the nicest I've ever met. Just isn't the path for me.

Morality is solely based on religion, so with no religion I guess all you're doing is obeying the law, but even then if you're an atheist technically you don't need to follow the law since law is based on religion.

You can believe in natural law and not believe in religion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discourse_ethics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-ownership
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggression_principle