What can Hillary GET DONE that Bernie Can't, that will help the middle to poor classes?

[rapbeats]

'No one is saying, strawman fallacy.

The argument using your own analogy is

"if you had to run 10 miles to find a supermarket every day and then and because you did that you developed into a good runner. You were an awesome runner, you'd pass all these people walking to the supermarket every day...but then all of a sudden they passed a law that said anyone who runs to the supermarket must now carry someone who is walking. so now you have run with someone on your back "
that's the analogy...why because you developed yourself and put yourself in a good position to win, should you be burden for policy and entitlements that enable people on your dime??

awful analogy again.

if you ran to the supermarket everyday. who do you think help pay for the sidewalk you were running on? US.
Who do you think paid to keep it from cracking where you could've easily broke your ankle by tripping over a huge crack or uneven piece of sidewalk(happens all the time in real life)? US

Who do you think pays for the police to keep someone from busting you upside your head every single day? WE DO

We all pitch in already. NO ONE. I MEAN NO ONE> does ISH on their own. NOT YOU, not ME. not anyone. Anyone believing "I did it on my own" is lying to themselves. Ya mother had to have you first. she did that. she could've chose not to. with all your super powers to do everything on your own you would not have ever actually BEEN.

The problem is people really dont THINK. they Want to believe things. a person lke you wants to believe you do things all on your own. because that makes you feel better about yourself. but thats actually not the case.

This is why its better for all of us to share in a few situations. There were people that have come before you(essssspecially if you're black or a minority). that have died to give you a shot. You didnt do ish for them. But they did it for you. If they thought like you think today. they would've never done those things. they would''ve been on some 'Every man for himself'

and you today would not even have that slight chance to be where you are today. but keep thinking you did something ALL BY YOURSELF

 

[CHL]

Capitalists who talk about "human nature" are really just talking about their own nature.

 

[Jello Biafra]

You're just arguing for the sake of arguing here. Nobody knew who the tea party candidates were either. They emerged around election time. You're trying to prove that a lot of Sanders supporters are uninformed, but I don't really see the point in it. Most people are uninformed, and they only become aware when things are placed right in front of them. If Sanders-like candidates emerge, and the spotlight is put on them, then Sanders supporters will vote for them. They don't have to be identified right now. Who the fukk was Joni Erst before she won? These people show up out of nowhere. The idea that somehow the Tea Party had a two or 4 or 8 year plan of getting their people in is ridiculous. The Republican Party embraced the racist angst of white people that formed the Tea Party and then found candidates they can control and some that they cannot control. Moreover, there is already a progressive caucus in congress with goals. It will not be that complicated for them, moveon.org, and other progressive organizations to raise awareness for these candidates when the time comes. The problem with your posts is that you come off talking down to these Sanders supporters in a way that emboldens Hillary stans to think they have some logical edge when they're different sides of the same coin. You never point out a path forward or what should be done. You just try to poke holes for the sake of it, and it's why you get the "contrarian" label. Like, how many times do you post something and I follow up and go..."but then there's this" and you go "yeah or i agree." You know that shyt from the jump but never lay it out until you're forced to or pressed to. I don't really know why.

I think I have posted "I agree" to you once. If there are more times you can point them out to me but I honestly don't see what that really has to do with anything. I agree with a lot of people on all sorts of points in this forum all the time. But I am never forced into anything...nobody on this site has that much power. Just out of spite I could argue a point that I really don't agree with from now till the end of days.

And my point by bringing up that there is no downticket coalition for the Bernie Sanders campaign is that the man keeps talking about how he is leading a "political revolution" and his supporters are constantly bringing up that Pres. Bernie will be able to accomplish all of his plans because he gives speeches about how the people have to get involved without actually giving all of these people any suggestions or directives on just how they could best do anything.
You can't be the self-proclaimed outsider who wants to fundamentally change the way Washington DC operates without being about more than just one guy running for President. How hard would it be for Bernie to have a page on his website featuring downticket races that feature people who share his ideology so that his rabid supporters could then maybe possibly show some support for those people and actually show that there is more to his campaign than just talk?
What I see when I look at the Bernie wave is that it is all about Bernie Sanders to the people that support him and outside of Bernie they have no real passion for anything else. So once Bernie is done and he concedes the race to Clinton his supporters will basically go away until the next presidential election.

 

[BaggerofTea]

he didnt just say free college. you do know if you drop out of HS, you can go get a ged and go straight to a JUCO. imagine if said JUCO was free too. there's a lot of young dudes that were silly and in the hood back in their mid teens. but once they hit 20 are thinking "mannnnn...i should just take that GED and go to a JC or something." then they never do it. because for one it cost money and if you already dont have a steady freddy job, you dont even have the JUCO funds. so now bernie is saying JUCO is free. so you can go to JUCO, mess around, mess around, mess around which most people do. end up not graduating in 2 years. its 4 years later. you're not 24 or so. now you're serious cause you're older now and you've seen the light of being a dusty nucca(or dusty cac).. and you decide mannnn i need to go back and finish up..But i aint got no money.... Dont worry its FREE remember.. OH YEAH thats right.. let me walk right into my local JUCO for FREE, and re-enroll and finish up. ""man i always wanted to go to a 4 year but i dont have that kind of cash even though i make enough money to live on my own. i'm right at the limit where i wont get a lot of Financial aid/pell grants. i will end up with mostly Loans.
i dont have parents that will help me. So its all on me. Guess i aint going to school until i make enough to pay for it ouright... wait that will never happen because odd of me moving up or getting a better job is slim without that piece of paper nowadays. so i'm stuck in a dead end job.

lets talk to those already in a dead end job making an ok living with kids. they aint getting a lot of pell grants and free doe either. but if it was free, they would apply like clock work. But you are only thinking about one scenario, one type of people. you have no idea how much something like this would help. lets not look a gift horse in the mouth. Every time someone talks Black reparations what do they say? WE need FREE TUITION. so here ya go. FREE TUITION. thats a piece of reparations.(now personally i want a check too. but thats another discussion for a different time.)

Sorry bruh. there's a lot of people that would take advantage of free college. a lot of them are black, hispanic, etc.

there are a lot of smart people that literally cant afford it, but would go if it were free. giving those smart people a chance brings in more innovative minds into the fold. the smarter you become, the more exposed to information you are the more innovative you become as well.

i work with a dude right now. minority. smart as HELL. computer geek. but he aint making much. got a wife and kid. parents aging out, means he's taking care of them too. this guy dropped out of highschool. if school were FREE. he would go to school. do you know what that would do for him, his family? do you understand if he graduated and actually got paid his worth(since he already has a lot of skill/intelligence) ... he could bring his entire family up. his Kid would see the father making those moves. so when the kid grows up its 2nd nature to do the same vs just stopping at high school or dropping out or just a smidget of college or a smidget of tech school.

that could change the future generations of people with his last name. you have no idea how much this would help people.

in addition. he also mentioned two other things, raising the minimum wage. we're talking about this for arguments sake as if all these things happened and who /how it could/would affect people.

well you go from making 7.50 to 15. you can actually live on your own for that. or if you live with your folks or roommates in middle of america or some southern spots. you could actually stack your chips. enroll into free college while you're at it. so you can move up from that $15. since its free its a bit more attractive then when college actually cost money. when you start growing up and having to take care of yourself, you start working with others, some who are like "man i really need to go back to school, or i should go to school for X" this encourages others. but the encouragement dies when the money issue pops up.

another thing, if he were to pass a bill to go all in on infrastructure (which is something obeezy wanted to do). there would be a lot of jobs out there for a whole lot of folks. and those jobs would be there for a long time. we have that much we need to fix in the US and upgrade. This will increase spending since more people have money to blow. this will have more youngins getting free certs from a JUCO to get in on this hiring spree. with so many firms doing so much construction. you need project managers, analyst, architects, etc. clean up guys, etc. you need everyone from all walks of life to help out. thats a lot of different people finally making money.

this will get more blacks and browns off the corner and more of them in the work force. you got $15 minimums, and a crap load of jobs due to infrastructure and free school. thats a lot of reasons to get up off the block. you actually have something to do other than be a block boy. $15 per hour getting paid every 2 weeks is approx 31k per year. that aint no money. but i'll tell you this. its more money than most block boys(dont believe their lies). and its consistent money and you might have other benees. now that these companies dont have to pay for health benefits(very expensive) they now have more cash for R&D(innovation you say), or more cash for hiring people, or more cash for advertising/marketing budget to push your products. this could increase sells.increase employment.

^^You asked, I answered.

This needs to be stickied

 

[Wild self]

Hillary grunts too. Ya'll actually lie for your fairy godmother. Midnight's coming for the Democratic party. Progressives ain't going to be like Democrats and let you in just because you whine and shyt and are Black. I'm going to make sure I expose every motherfukker who is too lazy to know the issues, because you slow us down with all the bullying and whining.

This will become a real meritocracy, not let's use the people of faith then ignore them, even when they're getting killed. I'm not going to be anyone's pet again. And if the progressives start slipping, I'm biting the hand real quick.

Politics are going great to be very different. The progressives will break into their own party...after the Republicans fight Trump and get their establishment ripped apart.

 

[MartyMcFly]

When are the middle and poor class gonna help themselves?

Unless congress and local governments are for helping it doesn't matter who the president is.

This is the fukkin bottom line. No matter who's in the oval office, if the poor and middle class don't vote in odd years or in major statewide elections, it's irrelevant. The most important election we had was 2010 and cats lamed the fukk out

 

[MartyMcFly]

Also, even though I won't call her Hilldawg I am voting for her in my primary and if/when she gets the nomination, I'm voting for her in November. What's important is for all of the bernie supporters to not get in their feelings and still vote for her because no matter how bad you think she is, she's better than that shyt show that was on tv last night masquerading as a debate

 

[Wild self]

awful analogy again.

if you ran to the supermarket everyday. who do you think help pay for the sidewalk you were running on? US.
Who do you think paid to keep it from cracking where you could've easily broke your ankle by tripping over a huge crack or uneven piece of sidewalk(happens all the time in real life)? US

Who do you think pays for the police to keep someone from busting you upside your head every single day? WE DO

We all pitch in already. NO ONE. I MEAN NO ONE> does ISH on their own. NOT YOU, not ME. not anyone. Anyone believing "I did it on my own" is lying to themselves. Ya mother had to have you first. she did that. she could've chose not to. with all your super powers to do everything on your own you would not have ever actually BEEN.

The problem is people really dont THINK. they Want to believe things. a person lke you wants to believe you do things all on your own. because that makes you feel better about yourself. but thats actually not the case.

This is why its better for all of us to share in a few situations. There were people that have come before you(essssspecially if you're black or a minority). that have died to give you a shot. You didnt do ish for them. But they did it for you. If they thought like you think today. they would've never done those things. they would''ve been on some 'Every man for himself'

and you today would not even have that slight chance to be where you are today. but keep thinking you did someone ALL BY YOURSELF

THAT ETHER THAT MAKES YOUR SOUL BURN SLOW

 

[MrSinnister]

Is that why white women have benefited from affirmative action more so than black men? Is that why there are more white women in middle management and even exec positions than black men?

The issue with a lot of black people is their failure to confront the racism and privilege of white women.

THIS. We'll try to fukk some that are willing (making less than 40K/year), but even Black women are scared as fukk to want to compete with them. We just settle with trying to make as many of them our friends as possible. They're open, but like
on thinking they're going to help you get to the next level unless you're both more educated, have a real plan for yourself, and good looking.

And ya'll then fall back to c00ning and/or being subservient, not matter what these passive aggressive Hillary grunts want to say about their "independence" in here. They crap all over real empowerment, in the same way their girls do that are ALREADY THERE. They don't need Bernie, but most of you do, whether you want to admit it or not.

 

[rapbeats]

I'm against companies doing it to...and you know who else is? Trump.

You're kinda proving my point.

dont bring up trumps name. he's not real. we dont know what he believes in. he could turn around and become far left bernie, he could be hitler, he could be obama. he could be hillary on the econom/military with right leaning social issue. we literally dont know who this guy is. aside from a reality TV star and guy who is obsessed with poll numbers like 50 was obsessed with sells during his run. So dont bring up trump. i would rather you bring up some of the other red dudes.

 

[rapbeats]

I think I have posted "I agree" to you once. If there are more times you can point them out to me but I honestly don't see what that really has to do with anything. I agree with a lot of people on all sorts of points in this forum all the time. But I am never forced into anything...nobody on this site has that much power. Just out of spite I could argue a point that I really don't agree with from now till the end of days.

And my point by bringing up that there is no downticket coalition for the Bernie Sanders campaign is that the man keeps talking about how he is leading a "political revolution" and his supporters are constantly bringing up that Pres. Bernie will be able to accomplish all of his plans because he gives speeches about how the people have to get involved without actually giving all of these people any suggestions or directives on just how they could best do anything.
You can't be the self-proclaimed outsider who wants to fundamentally change the way Washington DC operates without being about more than just one guy running for President. How hard would it be for Bernie to have a page on his website featuring downticket races that feature people who share his ideology so that his rabid supporters could then maybe possibly show some support for those people and actually show that there is more to his campaign than just talk?
What I see when I look at the Bernie wave is that it is all about Bernie Sanders to the people that support him and outside of Bernie they have no real passion for anything else. So once Bernie is done and he concedes the race to Clinton his supporters will basically go away until the next presidential election.

those are valid points about bernie pushing for other tickets. But he can't do that while he's running. He's already getting the boogie man press as is on his own. how bad do you think it would be if he were pushing a bunch of elizabeth warren types all across the US?

he needs to get in first to show the people ITS POSSIBLE. once that happens then you will start to see the bernie esk dems emerge, maybe even some of the sane green party tickets around the US that get some serious run. but it needs to be precedent set first. and he cant put it all out there like that because the entire establishment is anti change for the people including the run of the mill dems.

if you want to know how the tea party pulled that off. they didnt pull that off during bush jr's 8 years. they waited until the dems had a lock on the presidency, and a lock in DC to some degree. then anyone oppose to them would come out and say hey, you need a voice? we got you. those are under the radar moves. because they are not a REAL threat since it wasnt many of them...at first. if it were reverse and repubs were rolling along running the white house and DC. then you would have dems doing the same thing. there's a reason that black man won in 08 and blew them out in 12. But because there are so many dems in reality, they rely on other dems to do all the work. if everyone is relying on the next man to do it. someone will drop the ball. which is exactly what we do during these OTHER elections. that needs to stop. a bernie pres could turn the tides on that idea.

 

[MrSinnister]

The thing is, White women are already there and are the most powerful group in America period. They are, collectively, in more positions and make up the pure bulk of the economy by mutiples of any other group, aided by affirmative action. They don't need affirmative action anynore, and can call their own shots, we can't. You can't argue with this.

So here comes the rule of scarcity. White conservative males have the most money. White women are pretty split between sharing their resources (and beds/children) with them and the new neoliberal corporatist White male class. They're not thinking about your Black asses, male or female, until it is pragmatic to do so. It rarely is, which is why Hill only collectively talked about the Black dudes who were murdered right before she was about to be in primaries in their states, and then went silent again.

The problem is you think they're gonna reach back down and help you, on their come up, when they haven't even proven they were moral agents. They're not, as they want MORE power, and we pull them down. You can ignore this and make excuses, but we don't seek to compete, just try to guilt people, or entertain them, into acknowledging us. But fukk, until they need us, they don't even see us, so keep waiting.

We have a chance to be a part of a progressive revolution that will bring us to parity with the new White male neoliberal class, and most of you are scared because you don't really understand politics or economics, but have big mouths and ZERO FACTS. We're at a crossroads.

I don't seek to exclusively entertain them, just keep it light and challenge them on their morality and hypocrisy, that they initially piggybacked on their come up, with our help in the Civil Right's movement, to get the power they were too weak to ask for themselves and needed us then. You Hillary stans are content getting their leftovers and be at their parties, entertaining and grinning, to hopefully get one of their drunk or high chicks on last call. fukk that. I want parity to the new neoliberal White Male, or dominance. We can't do that with ya'll...period. You don't want to compete for shyt, ask for very little, and make way too many excuses for a people who continuously get randomly murdered, settle on people giving you sympathies, instead of using their power and morality to change the laws for more accountability to racism.

Many of you are slaves to power. Some of us want to challenge it, because again, many rank and file White and Black people are being left completely behind because of job and opportunity scarcity. When that happens and they get bored or distraught, crime and misanthrope will be their go to. I've seen that world before, and not in any way interested in going back there.

 

[rapbeats]

Also, even though I won't call her Hilldawg I am voting for her in my primary and if/when she gets the nomination, I'm voting for her in November. What's important is for all of the bernie supporters to not get in their feelings and still vote for her because no matter how bad you think she is, she's better than that shyt show that was on tv last night masquerading as a debate

what makes you think she's better than these repubs when her economic values are that of a corporatist which is exactly what most of these repubs are? she's a warhawk, so are these repubs. so aside from a few social issues that wont change my wallet, or debt to income ratio, wont create jobs here in the states. i'm trying to figure out how much different is Hill in reality? not in theory.

 

[MartyMcFly]

what makes you think she's better than these repubs when her economic values are that of a corporatist which is exactly what most of these repubs are? she's a warhawk, so are these repubs. so aside from a few social issues that wont change my wallet, or debt to income ratio, wont create jobs here in the states. i'm trying to figure out how much different is Hill in reality? not in theory.

That's exhibit A:http://thehill.com/policy/finance/271631-analysis-clintons-tax-proposals-would-raise-11-trillion

If her plan raises 1.1 trillion with a very progressive tax plan that truly does take the most from the top 1% earners, while applying cuts to the middle class, that's remarkably different from what republicans are shouting, which is more supply side economics and trying to make a flat tax which would ultimately just mean there's less money coming in meaning middle class and poor families would feel it more as entitlements would no doubt be cut and certain tax credits would have to go as well. Yes, her coziness with wall street is an issue but her husband had that same coziness and his tax plan, which is almost the same one she's following but hers is a bit more progressive, produced for the country as a whole.

On the issue of job creation, the industries and people being hurt the most are those who are blue collar workers or those who aren't highly educated. Not everyone is going to be able to afford a college degree and her plan for free tuition, much like bernie's is DOA with this congress anyway. And even IF the dems retake the senate, it's still a tough thing to get through. But on the issue of the people who've lost their jobs in the energy industry or construction, or factories, etc. A lot of that has to do with the world changing, point blank. So rather than lament the jobs that were loss, it's time to train people for jobs of the future. And there's a plan for that and it's been sitting in the capitol for 4 years collecting dust in someone's desk because republicans refuse to vote on it or even take a look at it. Which is why I echoed what @Ethnic Vagina Finder and @Jello Biafra said earlier: NONE of this shyt matters if you don't have the right congress to move your deals forward. And if you want democrat ideals to pass, work on getting a democratic congress to help those ideals pass. Job creation isn't just about the president. The president sets the agenda but its up to congress to pass it and get it done and then its up to each individual state and their state houses to do what they feel is best. A state like Kentucky has a higher unemployment rate than the national average now because of their state legislature but also because many cats who work in the oil industry are losing jobs left and right because oil is so damn cheap now and they're not turning a profit. Some things won't come back, so we need to look forward and figure out what's next and how to be ahead of the curve and invest money back into the people.

 

[MrSinnister]

dont bring up trumps name. he's not real. we dont know what he believes in. he could turn around and become far left bernie, he could be hitler, he could be obama. he could be hillary on the econom/military with right leaning social issue. we literally dont know who this guy is. aside from a reality TV star and guy who is obsessed with poll numbers like 50 was obsessed with sells during his run. So dont bring up trump. i would rather you bring up some of the other red dudes.

Yeah, Trump is definitely racist, but he's also a populist, apparently. He's a total wild card and we have no history of someone like that winning to know what to think. We can't risk it, but I don't think it's Armageddon. I don't know about his supporters though. That's my main concern. Trump's presidency could empower them, like Barack's looked to Blacks, but we were in it for the acknowledgement game again , and not really doing shyt to get him to pass policies that we actually needed, or keeping our eye on him. So he was able triangulate us, as a worshipping base, and vacillate between catering to the GOP or his new neoliberal corporatist family. These are inconvenient truths.

We still have some voice left. How are we going to use it will be the main question. I expect at least 30% of Hillary stans to be dapping Trump in the way too the White House, because he's gonna be so slick on Hillary, it'll make your head spin, and I know you're frontrunners without independent thought. You're also suckers for entertainment.

You talk about Trump and his supporter's racism, and completely ignore Hillary and her supporter's racism in 2008. There's really no talking to you. The states Hillary won on Super Tuesday, outside of 2, won't mean shyt in the general.