What is with the right's obsession with abortion?

[George's Dilemma]

Yeah....this is one of the few things I agree with the conservative right on.....
I cannot explain the conservative position but when the right they right.
I am against abortion (especially Planned Parenthood the greatest purveyor of abortions) but make exceptions for life threatening pregnancies..

Whats to get.....Human Life is sacrosanct.

Is it though?

 

[superunknown23]

They're not pro-life, they're pro-fetus.
Once that baby is born, he's just another moocher who doesn't deserve health care (republicans oppose CHIP), early childhood education or any kind of welfare (especially minorities).

 

[frankster]

Is it though?

Yes it is.....its just at an early stage of development.
Though a fetus a one point may not look like you ( a mature human) does not mean it is not human......
Racist whites has used the argument that because Africans did not look or behave like Europeans they were not humans or were lesser humans.....but we now know that both those arguments are false.

Is Human life sacrosanct ......if it were not then there would be no need for laws protecting human life.
It is because parents care for their children and vice versa and siblings care for each other....and we human value our feelings.

 

[NoMayo15]

My position is simple all human life is sacrosanct

But that's a complete redirection of the argument. If you believe this, then why take measures to stop any potential pregnancy? Why use any birth control? Why not just have as many children as possible? I'd wager this is not what you actually think. I'd bet that you are just uncomfortable with the ideas the right propaganda machine has been pumping out. That fully developed, live babies are being murdered by doctors so they can make a profit. There are already laws against this, and that's not what we're talking about 99% of the time.

Maybe you and I agree -- that ending a pregnancy is tragic, and should only happen in the most dire of circumstances. But who are we to decide that for some stranger? These are conversations for us to have individually with our wives/girlfriends/etc., and personally decide for ourselves, with advice from our doctors, how to move forward. It certainly shouldn't be from the dictates of the government or some religious minority I may not belong to.

 

[frankster]

But that's a complete redirection of the argument. If you believe this, then why take measures to stop any potential pregnancy? Why use any birth control? Why not just have as many children as possible? I'd wager this is not what you actually think. I'd bet that you are just uncomfortable with the ideas the right propaganda machine has been pumping out. That fully developed, live babies are being murdered by doctors so they can make a profit. There are already laws against this, and that's not what we're talking about 99% of the time.

If the pregnancy is a danger to the life of the mother then I make an exception, Giving the couple or mother the right to decide what to do?
In the case above, it is the mothers right to defend her life.

A potential pregnancy is not a human life as opposed to an actual pregnancy which is a human life.
Birth Control stops conception from occurring....No Human life
I see no problem with having as much children as possible, if that is what the parties involve wants

Maybe you and I agree -- that ending a pregnancy is tragic, and should only happen in the most dire of circumstances. But who are we to decide that for some stranger? These are conversations for us to have individually with our wives/girlfriends/etc., and personally decide for ourselves, with advice from our doctors, how to move forward. It certainly shouldn't be from the dictates of the government or some religious minority I may not belong to.

What if that stranger decides to end your life, should we allow the stranger and his partner who may or may not be a doctor to discuss it and decide for themselves whether or not to carry out this tragic act. Without the threat of penalty should they carry it out.
I believe that all human beings have an inalienable Right to life......That should be protected by government if and when necessary.

 

[NoMayo15]

If the pregnancy is a danger to the life of the mother then I make an exception, Giving the couple or mother the right to decide what to do?
In the case above, it is the mothers right to defend her life.

A potential pregnancy is not a human life as opposed to an actual pregnancy which is a human life.
Birth Control stops conception from occurring....No Human life
I see no problem with having as much children as possible, if that is what the parties involve wants

What if that stranger decides to end your life, should we allow the stranger and his partner who may or may not be a doctor to discuss it and decide for themselves whether or not to carry out this tragic act. Without the threat of penalty should they carry it out.
I believe that all human beings have an inalienable Right to life......That should be protected by government if and when necessary.

Ah, so you're of the mind that life begins the moment sperm fertilizes the egg. Fair, I just disagree. That so-called "human life" is still dependant on another's body to maintain life. So what obligates the latter to continue this relationship? Is there demonstrable harm being done by stopping it, and if so is it greater than any harm done by continuing it?

And to your question, no, because I have sovereignty over my life, and do not rely on another individual's physical body to maintain my life. It all comes back to individual choices. You aren't talking about a "right to life". You're advocating whether another party should be forced to help you survive. It's similar to whether a family should be forced to keep someone on life support even if they are in a vegetable state. It's a hard decision, yes, but if someone isn't capable of surviving of their own volition, then I don't think they should be required to keep them "alive".

And clearly, you don't think life is inalienable. If you think there are exceptions in which the mother can be justified in ending a pregnancy, then clearly you acknowledge that life can be taken away. Also, are you a complete pacifist in every situation? Do you advocate for the elimination of the death penalty?

 

[frankster]

Ah, so you're of the mind that life begins the moment sperm fertilizes the egg. Fair, I just disagree. That so-called "human life" is still dependant on another's body to maintain life. So what obligates the latter to continue this relationship? Is there demonstrable harm being done by stopping it, and if so is it greater than any harm done by continuing it?

We are all dependent on others to varying degree its the nature of life.
The same things that obligates anyone to respect your Rights....
By ending the relationship prematurely you will end the life of the offspring....that is harmful and tragic

And to your question, no, because I have sovereignty over my life, and do not rely on another individual's physical body to maintain my life. It all comes back to individual choices. You aren't talking about a "right to life". You're advocating whether another party should be forced to help you survive. It's similar to whether a family should be forced to keep someone on life support even if they are in a vegetable state. It's a hard decision, yes, but if someone isn't capable of surviving of their own volition, then I don't think they should be required to keep them "alive".

No Man is an Island......you need others in a society - Human beings are social creatures
No you do not have sovereignty over your own body.....try threatening suicide and see what happens or strip naked and walk down maintain street.
The life support analogy is not totally accurate. Often In the case of the patient one is not sure if he or she will ever regain their independence they enjoyed before but with the unborn child it is known that within months its independence will be ever increasing.
Then should crash victims who are temporary no longer able to survive on their own volition...... left to die?

And clearly, you don't think life is inalienable. If you think there are exceptions in which the mother can be justified in ending a pregnancy, then clearly you acknowledge that life can be taken away. Also, are you a complete pacifist in every situation? Do you advocate for the elimination of the death penalty?

That's the exception in protecting her life it ends in the death of the child.....if you threaten the life of another then you have effectively forfeited your own Right to life....maybe inalienable was not the best word.
Yes I am against the death penalty in most cases not all.

 

[kevm3]

Has Democrats somehow become synonymous with blackness? Regardless of political affiliation, abortion has done a very effective job of cutting down the black population.

 

[NoMayo15]

We are all dependent on others to varying degree its the nature of life.
No Man is an Island......you need others in a society - Human beings are social creatures

That's not the point though.

The same things that obligates anyone to respect your Rights....

The law and fear of reciprocation are the only things that obligate me. But in this case the law supports a person's individual right to end a pregnancy within a certain amount of weeks after conception. And I'm in my mid/late 20's so...no one's going to abort me. I respect the rights of others because I don't want my own infringed upon. So I wish you would reconsider your position of impeding the rights of American families.

By ending the relationship prematurely you will end the life of the offspring....that is harmful

How so? I mean, can one demonstrate that actual suffering is taking place?

No you do not have sovereignty over your own body.....try threatening suicide and see what happens or strip naked and walk down maintain street.

Yes, I do. The fact that someone might try to stop me from enacting my free will doesn't mean I don't have free will. I don't have the right to walk down the street naked because laws and social norms are such that nakedness is seen as lewd. However, as I pointed out before, we do have the right to have abortions.

The life support analogy is not totally accurate. Often In the case of the patient one is not sure if he or she will ever regain their independence they enjoyed before but with the unborn child it is known that within months its independence will be ever increasing.

And even this isn't a given. How many children are born disabled or deformed? Would you make another exception if it's known that the child will never be able to walk/talk/think?

The point is the choice shouldn't be removed from the family & doctors, regardless of which situation we're talking about.

Then should crash victims who are temporary no longer able to survive on their own volition...... left to die?

Apples and oranges. Obviously a person who can be nursed back to health should be helped. As it stands now, there is exactly one way for a fertilized egg to develop. When it changes that a person can be born independant from a mother, then great.

 

[Strapped]

i hope there mommas are proud

 

[Prince.Skeletor]

Wtfff
I'm not religious and I'm not for abortion.
But if you are for it is that all trimesters?

 

[brick james]

Has Democrats somehow become synonymous with blackness? Regardless of political affiliation, abortion has done a very effective job of cutting down the black population.

You mean cutting down growth? The black population in the US grew 3 times faster than the white population in the 90s, not sure of the data for the 2000's but abortion and birthrate are pretty much directly correlated to education and income. the more poorly educated and the lower your income the more likely you are to have an abortion and have more children

 

[Jhoon]

You mean cutting down growth? The black population in the US grew 3 times faster than the white population in the 90s, not sure of the data for the 2000's but abortion and birthrate are pretty much directly correlated to education and income. the more poorly educated and the lower your income the more likely you are to have an abortion and have more children

This is why they feel its important to cut education and also limit access to healthcare services. So, to wrap this up: if you like your woman dumb and pregnant, vote for those guys. If you want to keep your money, and have those ladies in charge of their life, vote for us.

 

[Jean Jacket]

All of your answers are on st0rmfr0nt.... Something dealing with the northwest front or the like.....cress welsing/hitler mashup reasoning. The right is just another name for white nationalist. Just research and your eyes will open.

 

[frankster]

That's not the point though.



The law and fear of reciprocation are the only things that obligate me. But in this case the law supports a person's individual right to end a pregnancy within a certain amount of weeks after conception. And I'm in my mid/late 20's so...no one's going to abort me. I respect the rights of others because I don't want my own infringed upon. So I wish you would reconsider your position of impeding the rights of American families.

If as you say the Law etc is the only thing that obligates you to respect another Rights.......then you thing it is fair for the strong to abuse the weak, in the absence of laws restricting the strong - if so then the Laws needs amending.
Europeans were and are strong and the made Laws that suited their purpose with regards to the Enslavement of Africans....Even had religion and science supporting those cruel and unjust laws......Africans and Europeans changed those laws
Then I am speaking for the voiceless fetus who is unable to reciprocate and threaten your Rights.....allowing them some human dignity.
No...I will impeding the Socalled Rights of those who are intent upon persecuting or destroying the weak and powerless on the grounds that they are less then or not human..

How so? I mean, can one demonstrate that actual suffering is taking place?

WOW.....You know when Racist Slave Holding whites had blacks as chattel that was the same argument they used......"Black Africans do not feel pain like we do" as the experimented on them medically without anesthesia..
There is much medical literature on both sides of the argument as to whether or not a fetus feels pain....I side with those who says they do

Yes, I do. The fact that someone might try to stop me from enacting my free will doesn't mean I don't have free will. I don't have the right to walk down the street naked because laws and social norms are such that nakedness is seen as lewd. However, as I pointed out before, we do have the right to have abortions.

Point is you do not have sovereignty over your body now in the sight of the law and we all accept and live with that loss.
Yes....Abortion is legal before a specific age of the fetus, (so was the enslavement of Africans before the mid 1800's) - I disagree with this idea and that is why we are here having this discourse. On this Issue I support the right wing Republicans

And even this isn't a given. How many children are born disabled or deformed? Would you make another exception if it's known that the child will never be able to walk/talk/think?

The point is the choice shouldn't be removed from the family & doctors, regardless of which situation we're talking about.

Their many people today who cannot walk or talk....what should they now be killed off.
The inability to think is at this time hard to prove.....Some may have thought the great Helen Keller could not think because of her lack of restraints.

Apples and oranges. Obviously a person who can be nursed back to health should be helped. As it stands now, there is exactly one way for a fertilized egg to develop. When it changes that a person can be born independant from a mother, then great.

No its not apples and oranges often time crash victims end up unable to walk talk or worse in a vegetative state.
Precisely because as it stands now human beings can only come into this world through a woman's womb.....Then it is up to us to protect this fragile human life.