What makes Jon Gruden so much better than Jack Del Rio?

mitter

All Star
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
3,951
Reputation
162
Daps
11,121
Reppin
NULL
Jon Gruden is very overrated by Raiders fans, and I think it is crazy how he has been elevated by them to some sort of mythical, God-like figure.



But before I get to that: I am surprised to see how quickly Del Rio's demise came.

He became head coach of a team that has stunk for a decade-plus, improved from 3-13 to 7-9 in the first year with a young, inexperienced team, then took them to a 12-4 season the next year and their first playoff birth since 2002. Considering how long the Raiders have been in the gutter and suffered from instability, I thought Del Rio was here to stay for a while. Yes, a 6-10 season is not how you want to follow up a 12-4 campaign. But it happens, even to some of the best coaches in the league. After what he achieved, the disappointing record alone should not have warranted his firing.

Having said that, I know there was more that went into Del Rio's exit than this season's disappointing win-loss record. It does seem like Del Rio "lost" his players at some point this season, and it became increasingly difficult to see how he would lead this same group back of players back to contention.


Anyway, regardless of whether Del Rio should have been fired and whether or not he was a first-rate coach, here's what I don't get:

Why is everyone acting like Jon Gruden is some sort of huge upgrade?

Del Rio's 3 seasons:

7-9
12-4
6-10


Gruden's 4 seasons in Oakland:

8-8
8-8
12-4
10-6


Yes, Gruden's Raiders didn't take a huge step back at any point. And yes, the two 8-8 seasons were welcome ascents to respectability after he took over a 4-12 team (though you can say similar things about Del Rio's record). But why did two good years in Oakland make Gruden some sort of untouchable God?

Okay, yes. He won the Super Bowl against the Raiders the year after he left. That made the Super Bowl loss especially bitter for Raiders fans and left them thinking about what may have been had Gruden never left.

So let's look at his full record in Tampa Bay:

12-4 (Super Bowl win)
7-9
5-11
11-5
4-12
9-7
9-7

Take away the Super Bowl victory (with the team that Tony Dungy built into contenders), and you are left with two playoff appearances (and zero playoff games won) in six years.


Gruden won 51% of his games at Tampa Bay

Del Rio won 52% of his games in his three years in Oakland
 

mitter

All Star
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
3,951
Reputation
162
Daps
11,121
Reppin
NULL
Bigger then that bruh, bringing Gruden back gives the city of Oakland a reason to still support the Raiders. If he doesn't come, we about to be the lamest of lame ducks teams next year

Yeah, I get that, and I don't dispute that factor.

I understand why he was hired, but that doesn't change the fact that he is wildly overrated.

An ownership stake?! :dwillhuh: :dahell:
 

JLova

Veteran
Supporter
Joined
May 6, 2012
Messages
60,022
Reputation
4,652
Daps
182,374
Personality. People fall in love with personalities. Gruden is likeable and has personality. He's also won a SB and gotten to Championship games with two different teams.

Del Rio hasn't done much winning in the playoffs.
 

Trojan 24

Veteran
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
44,045
Reputation
6,385
Daps
166,593
Reppin
Just Win Baby
Yeah, I get that, and I don't dispute that factor.

I understand why he was hired, but that doesn't change the fact that he is wildly overrated.

An ownership stake?! :dwillhuh: :dahell:

To most Raider fans he isn't overated, that's really all that matters. Plus you can't take away that Super Bowl by saying it was Dungy's players. When he beat the team that he built, running his offense.
 

Dame Dash's Motor Oil

Not From Harlem
Joined
Jan 31, 2017
Messages
2,794
Reputation
2,643
Daps
29,550
They really giving ownership stakes out there to a guy with a 50-something winning percentage?
full

With one of the wackest Superbowl wins of all time?
full

What should Mike Tomlin's contract be then?
full
 

Mantis Toboggan M.D.

I’m here for the scraps
Joined
Mar 18, 2014
Messages
33,752
Reputation
10,059
Daps
111,554
Reppin
Brooklyn
To most Raider fans he isn't overated, that's really all that matters. Plus you can't take away that Super Bowl by saying it was Dungy's players. When he beat the team that he built, running his offense.
Not just that, but Tampa bay gave up two first and two second round picks to get him and let warren Sapp and John Lynch leave shortly after in free agency too. That kneecapped them pretty serious to lose both of them and that many high picks right away. Didn’t he make the playoffs with Chris Simms as his quarterback once?
 

Trojan 24

Veteran
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
44,045
Reputation
6,385
Daps
166,593
Reppin
Just Win Baby
Not just that, but Tampa bay gave up two first and two second round picks to get him and let warren Sapp and John Lynch leave shortly after in free agency too. That kneecapped them pretty serious to lose both of them and that many high picks right away. Didn’t he make the playoffs with Chris Simms as his quarterback once?

Yeah that Tampa team was on it's last legs and they were able to cash in. It wasn't a team built to contend for another 4/5 years. Kinda similiar to the recent Broncos team
 

FaTaL

Veteran
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
106,999
Reputation
5,539
Daps
212,844
Reppin
NULL
They really giving ownership stakes out there to a guy with a 50-something winning percentage?
full

With one of the wackest Superbowl wins of all time?
full

What should Mike Tomlin's contract be then?
full
The owners won't allow that to happen, that would open a Pandora's box
 

Dame Dash's Motor Oil

Not From Harlem
Joined
Jan 31, 2017
Messages
2,794
Reputation
2,643
Daps
29,550
:wtf: his team dominated
Controversy surrounding Super Bowl XXXVII
In January 2013, Callahan was publicly accused of sabotaging Super Bowl XXXVII by several former players. According to comments by Tim Brown and others, the Raiders struggled on offense during the Super bowl because of Callahan changing the game plan from a heavy run attack to a heavy passing one on the Friday before the game. Although some claim this was due to the Barrett Robbins incident, Brown offered no proof for the sabotage claim, but said: "this is the problem we have, because of Callahan's relationship with Gruden, because of his disdain for the Raider organization; that's what makes people get to that conclusion." Rich Gannon defended Callahan, but did suggest that Oakland may have been disadvantaged by Callahan's failure to change the terminology for play calls at the line of scrimmage. According to Gannon, the same play names had been used during Gruden's tenure as Raiders coach, and Gruden had taught his Buccaneers defensive players these play names.

Jerry Rice, an NFL Hall of Famer who was a wide receiver for the Raiders at that time, was quoted as saying, "I was very surprised that he waited till the last second and I think a lot of the players they were surprised also so in a way maybe because he didn't like the Raiders he decided 'Hey look maybe we should sabotage just a little bit and let Jon Gruden go out and win this one.''
 

mitter

All Star
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
3,951
Reputation
162
Daps
11,121
Reppin
NULL
Controversy surrounding Super Bowl XXXVII
In January 2013, Callahan was publicly accused of sabotaging Super Bowl XXXVII by several former players. According to comments by Tim Brown and others, the Raiders struggled on offense during the Super bowl because of Callahan changing the game plan from a heavy run attack to a heavy passing one on the Friday before the game. Although some claim this was due to the Barrett Robbins incident, Brown offered no proof for the sabotage claim, but said: "this is the problem we have, because of Callahan's relationship with Gruden, because of his disdain for the Raider organization; that's what makes people get to that conclusion." Rich Gannon defended Callahan, but did suggest that Oakland may have been disadvantaged by Callahan's failure to change the terminology for play calls at the line of scrimmage. According to Gannon, the same play names had been used during Gruden's tenure as Raiders coach, and Gruden had taught his Buccaneers defensive players these play names.

Jerry Rice, an NFL Hall of Famer who was a wide receiver for the Raiders at that time, was quoted as saying, "I was very surprised that he waited till the last second and I think a lot of the players they were surprised also so in a way maybe because he didn't like the Raiders he decided 'Hey look maybe we should sabotage just a little bit and let Jon Gruden go out and win this one.''


Glad someone brought this up
 
Top