What really soured US - Iraq relationship?

[Brown_Pride]

Iraq was the lesser of two evils at one point. The US used to be in good relations with Iran until the Ayatollah took over the Shah and Iran kidnapped Americans back in the 1970s. So, later Iraq and Iran go into a war. Who do we dislike more? Iran. So we were pseudo - allies with Iraq.
When Iraq attacked Kuwait, based on Saddam's belief that Kuwait deserved to be attacked, then the US stepped in. Iraq's attack of Kuwait had nothing to do with al Queda, or strife between Sunnis and Shiite sects, or dislike of America. Since Kuwait was also friendly with the US, the situation was now, Iraq was the enemy. We still dislike Iran, so we didn't make good with Iran while Iraq was being bad boy.
If Iran made some whacked out offer that they take out the top ten al Queda leaders in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran and Iraq in trade to further their own nuclear energy and weapons efforts, the US would be pondering that offer.

At first, the US would see that as a win. But it would bite is in the butt, when they threaten US allies with nuclear attack.

basically this.
Kuwait was a friend and while Iraq was also a friend they were more a frenemy. So when Iraq invaded we backed up Kuwait and hulk smashed Saddam and Iraq.

 

[A Real Human Bean]

That's a possibility, but the bolded makes me think there was some fukkery afoot.

That was before the U.S. knew Saddam was going to invade Kuwait. The same ambassador was interviewed later and stated they "didn't think they would go that far".

If the U.S. was interested in getting Iraq to pay back its debts to Kuwait there would have been ways to go about it. None of them include war.

It's spelled out pretty clearly in the scholarship. Washington wasn't worried about Kuwait's national sovereignty as much as it was worried about maintaining its interests in the region with an iron fist.

 

[88m3]

"Freedom wants to be heard and the B52s can give her that voice".

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

That's a possibility, but the bolded makes me think there was some fukkery afoot.



The more I read the more I think it was to make Iraq honor it's war time debts. I'm willing to bet western banks were involved somehow in these Kuwait loans to Iraq. But I'm just speculating.

ALSO...the Iraqi's killed a bunch of sailors "on accident" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Stark_incident

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Saddam got mad that the US stopped helping/caring about him after the Iraq-Iran war ended in a stalemate (we supported Iraq, but both countries lost).
So he decided to go into that Kuwait adventure and the rest is history.
Maybe he got bored... Dictators aren't always the most rational people out there

Its because Kuwait wanted that money back they fronted Iraq for the Iran-Iraq war and Iraq said "fukk that" and went to push the Kuwaiti's back into the gulf

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

basically this.
Kuwait was a friend and while Iraq was also a friend they were more a frenemy. So when Iraq invaded we backed up Kuwait and hulk smashed Saddam and Iraq.

Lets not forget how easy the Iraq war was.

That shyt was probably the most successful military action of the century.

 

[Robbie3000]

That was before the U.S. knew Saddam was going to invade Kuwait. The same ambassador was interviewed later and stated they "didn't think they would go that far".

If the U.S. was interested in getting Iraq to pay back its debts to Kuwait there would have been ways to go about it. None of them include war.

It's spelled out pretty clearly in the scholarship. Washington wasn't worried about Kuwait's national sovereignty as much as it was worried about maintaining its interests in the region with an iron fist.

I don't know. After the war, the UN took complete control of Iraq's oil (formally anyway because there was a lot of corruption) and doled out 30% of total revenues as war reparations in the food for oil program. Iraq went from owing 80 billion to having 200+ billion in claims against it for war repartations.

But I also found this article. I forgot it wasn't until Saddam started popping off about the Saudis that the US really ratcheted up the call for war.

After Iraq took control of Kuwait, Saddam began to engage in threatening rhetoric in regards to Saudi Arabia, including the grievance concerning the kingdom's refusal to forgive the $26 billion loan to Iraq. Iraq was now in striking distance of Saudi Arabia's most productive oil fields, which would have given Iraq possession of the majority of the world's oil reserves if conquered, an uncomfortable scenario for the US and other western nations. To ensure this did not happen, the US mobilized about 543,000 troops into the region.

 

[A Real Human Bean]

I don't know. After the war, the UN took complete control of Iraq's oil (formally anyway because there was a lot of corruption) and doled out 30% of total revenues as war reparations in the food for oil program. Iraq went from owing 80 billion to having 200+ billion in claims against it for war repartations.

That doesn't say anything about the U.S. aims in the war. If simply getting Saddam to pay back his debt was the aim, they could've worked towards that without a fight. Saddam was already offering to withdraw once he saw the reaction in the U.S. But the fear was that when he did withdraw he'd leave a puppet regime that was favorable to Arab interests, thus undermining U.S. domination of the Gulf.

I haven't seen anything that supports the idea that the U.S. started the Gulf War "to make Iraq honor it's war time debts", but the scholarship that I have seen lends support to the view that the U.S. was simply interested in maintaining its interests in the region and saw Saddam as a possible threat to that when he invaded Kuwait.

The strategic value of the Gulf to the U.S. is no secret.

 

[Robbie3000]

That doesn't say anything about the U.S. aims in the war. If simply getting Saddam to pay back his debt was the aim, they could've worked towards that without a fight. Saddam was already offering to withdraw once he saw the reaction in the U.S. But the fear was that when he did withdraw he'd leave a puppet regime that was favorable to Arab interests, thus undermining U.S. domination of the Gulf.

I haven't seen anything that supports the idea that the U.S. started the Gulf War "to make Iraq honor it's war time debts", but the scholarship that I have seen lends support to the view that the U.S. was simply interested in maintaining its interests in the region and saw Saddam as a possible threat to that when he invaded Kuwait.

The strategic value of the Gulf to the U.S. is no secret.

Fair enough. Maybe it was a case where both countries misread each other and there was nothing conspiratorial about the war.

 

[merklman]

Its because Kuwait wanted that money back they fronted Iraq for the Iran-Iraq war and Iraq said "fukk that" and went to push the Kuwaiti's back into the gulf

Also with kuwait horizontal drilling into iraqi fields iirc

 

[Type Username Here]

Why are people bringing up DUBYA and the Iraq War?

OP is obviously talking about the period between the Iran-Iraq War and the Gulf War. It's a valid question.

 

[MVike28]

Why are people bringing up DUBYA and the Iraq War?

OP is obviously talking about the period between the Iran-Iraq War and the Gulf War. It's a valid question.

I remember this like it was yesterday

Here's an article that speaks to the tensions in the months before the invasion



Iraq Threatens Emirates And Kuwait on Oil Glut
By YOUSSEF M. IBRAHIM, Special to The New York Times
Published: July 18, 1990

President Saddam Hussein of Iraq today openly threatened to use force against Arab oil-exporting nations if they did not curb their excess production, which he said had weakened oil prices and hurt the Iraqi economy.

The Iraqi leader did not mention particular countries by name in his nationally broadcast address today, but his warning was clearly aimed at Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates.

In the last few weeks, the Iraqi oil minister, Issam Abdul-Rahim al-Chalaby, has frequently singled out the two Arab nations, which have been producing oil at rates far above the quotas mandated by the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, as the main culprits in the steep fall of oil prices in recent months.


President Hussein charged that the oil production policies of Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates had been the result of American influence, seeking to obtain cheap oil and harm Iraq, among other nations.

''The policies of some Arab rulers are American,'' the Iraqi leader was quoted as having said by news agencies from Baghdad. ''They are inspired by America to undermine Arab interests and security.''

President Hussein said, ''Iraqis will not forget the saying that cutting necks is better than cutting means of living.''

''O God almighty, be witness that we have warned them,'' he added. ''If words fail to protect Iraqis, something effective must be done to return things to their natural course and to return usurped rights to their owners.''

Mr. Hussein's threat is not being taken lightly in the Arab world. In response to the Iraqi leader's comments, two Arab officials said Baghdad might follow up on its threat with acts of terrorism or other forms of ''intimidation'' unless Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates abided by their production quotas.

The Iraqi leader's statements today mark the first time since the end of the Persian Gulf war that he has publicly threatened another Arab nation, although he was said to have issued a similar ultimatum in late June in a personal message to the Emir of Kuwait.

Both Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates provided financial backing for Iraq's eight-year war against Iran, which ended in an armistice in 1988. Two weeks ago, Iran and Iraq began to negotiate a final peace treaty with direct talks in Geneva.

Shifts in Area Underscored

President Hussein's threat, according to analysts and senior members of other Arab governments, underscores the shifts that have occurred in the region in the aftermath of the Iran-Iraq war and the importance the Iraqi leader places on the recent push for higher prices by three of OPEC's leading producers - Saudi Arabia, Iran and Iraq.

The speech by the Iraqi leader came a week after a group of OPEC oil ministers, including those from Saudi Arabia and Iraq, met to press Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates to restrict their production.

Indeed, the price of oil jumped more than $1.50 a barrel after that meeting, partly reversing a price slide of about $6 a barrel during the previous three months. Oil prices moved little today in response to President Hussein's comments.

To be sure, OPEC has failed many times before to force Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates, two small and independent-minded countries, to rein in their oil output. But this is the first time in a decade the three largest military and political powers in the gulf, Saudi Arabia, Iran and Iraq, have joined hands to bring about a greater sense of discipline to OPEC.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/07/18/business/iraq-threatens-emirates-and-kuwait-on-oil-glut.html

 

[Robbie3000]

I remember this like it was yesterday

Here's an article that speaks to the tensions in the months before the invasion



Iraq Threatens Emirates And Kuwait on Oil Glut
By YOUSSEF M. IBRAHIM, Special to The New York Times
Published: July 18, 1990

President Saddam Hussein of Iraq today openly threatened to use force against Arab oil-exporting nations if they did not curb their excess production, which he said had weakened oil prices and hurt the Iraqi economy.

The Iraqi leader did not mention particular countries by name in his nationally broadcast address today, but his warning was clearly aimed at Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates.

In the last few weeks, the Iraqi oil minister, Issam Abdul-Rahim al-Chalaby, has frequently singled out the two Arab nations, which have been producing oil at rates far above the quotas mandated by the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, as the main culprits in the steep fall of oil prices in recent months.


President Hussein charged that the oil production policies of Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates had been the result of American influence, seeking to obtain cheap oil and harm Iraq, among other nations.

''The policies of some Arab rulers are American,'' the Iraqi leader was quoted as having said by news agencies from Baghdad. ''They are inspired by America to undermine Arab interests and security.''

President Hussein said, ''Iraqis will not forget the saying that cutting necks is better than cutting means of living.''

''O God almighty, be witness that we have warned them,'' he added. ''If words fail to protect Iraqis, something effective must be done to return things to their natural course and to return usurped rights to their owners.''

Mr. Hussein's threat is not being taken lightly in the Arab world. In response to the Iraqi leader's comments, two Arab officials said Baghdad might follow up on its threat with acts of terrorism or other forms of ''intimidation'' unless Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates abided by their production quotas.

The Iraqi leader's statements today mark the first time since the end of the Persian Gulf war that he has publicly threatened another Arab nation, although he was said to have issued a similar ultimatum in late June in a personal message to the Emir of Kuwait.

Both Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates provided financial backing for Iraq's eight-year war against Iran, which ended in an armistice in 1988. Two weeks ago, Iran and Iraq began to negotiate a final peace treaty with direct talks in Geneva.

Shifts in Area Underscored

President Hussein's threat, according to analysts and senior members of other Arab governments, underscores the shifts that have occurred in the region in the aftermath of the Iran-Iraq war and the importance the Iraqi leader places on the recent push for higher prices by three of OPEC's leading producers - Saudi Arabia, Iran and Iraq.

The speech by the Iraqi leader came a week after a group of OPEC oil ministers, including those from Saudi Arabia and Iraq, met to press Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates to restrict their production.

Indeed, the price of oil jumped more than $1.50 a barrel after that meeting, partly reversing a price slide of about $6 a barrel during the previous three months. Oil prices moved little today in response to President Hussein's comments.

To be sure, OPEC has failed many times before to force Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates, two small and independent-minded countries, to rein in their oil output. But this is the first time in a decade the three largest military and political powers in the gulf, Saudi Arabia, Iran and Iraq, have joined hands to bring about a greater sense of discipline to OPEC.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/07/18/business/iraq-threatens-emirates-and-kuwait-on-oil-glut.html

Should have known America's fukkery in trying to undermine OPEC was a part of this. We have a lot of blood on our hands.