When did finishing moves become ineffective?

[diggy]

I dont watch wrasslin like I used to but I have noticed that back in the day when you got nailed with a finishing move it was rare a nikka would kick out of it. Now it seems you expect she shoulder to come up at 2 and a half.

Now I see dudes slapping each other with repeated finishers and they shrugging it off like its a sunset flip. Maybe I'm wrong since I'm a casual watcher but it seems this is normal upon watching a match, minus the regular underpowered opponent. It did take the predictability out of the match but now this trend seems to have become predictable in itself

 

[Tide Run This]

In the attitude era it got absurd people stealing each others finishers. It's a played out concept I miss the days when someone hit the finisher it was
game over. I laughed when I saw that over/under prop bet on Cena/Rock at 4.5 we lost coun't on how many finishers were hit last night.

 

[puppetmaster]

Yeah they're OD'ing on the Contra codes nowadays for sure.




-P-

 

[Scottie Drippin]

I don't get this. I really don't. This has been happening in big matches since the late 90's.

Or are we pretending that people are kicking out of finishers on Raw now?

There's absolutely nothing wrong with it as long as it's done well. In the last two matches last night both were dragging borefests until they started doing nearfalls for reaction. They didn't build to the finishers well at all.

 

[StatUS]

It's not just the E the indies picked this up years ago too. ECW used to do it in the 90s also.

I really don't think it'll change either.

 

[Daracell]

Rememeber the MAcho Man vs Ultimate Warrior match where Macho had to do the flying elbow drop like 4 times. And Warrior still end up winning the match

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

It's a combination of Puro from the mid 90's and present day ROH.

It's escalated now because fans don't ever buy the first finisher... now they need at least two finishers to get the near fall response they would have gotten if they had just protected them.

Protected finishers can make a classic match.. Part of the reason why Big Show vs. Sheamus was so great was because the knockout punch and Brogue Kick were both protected and both men kicked out of them.

 

[Scottie Drippin]

It's not just the E the indies picked this up years ago too. ECW used to do it in the 90s also.

I really don't think it'll change either.

Why should it, though? As long as it's not overkill (which it isn't, Punk didn't hit a single GTS at the Rumble), it's a useful tool to make a match between two "equal" big names that much more important.

Guys still win 100% of their TV matches and 90% of their PPV matches with one use of their finisher. It's just that once you put certain guys in the ring, previous matches let you know it's going to take a million.

It has nothing to do with protecting finishers, they're just bad workers.

The people who mastered this style, the AJPW main eventers in the 90's, never had this issue because they knew had to build a match.

Instead of just repeating the same move, those guys established big match finishers. The heavy artillery that they kept especially for those moments. The only guy who has anything like that now is Taker, and surprise surprise his matches are always great.

 

[Kunty McPhuck]

I dont mind the top breh 1 vs top breh 2 kickin out of finishers in the pay off matches i.e @ WM or at the end of their feud. But when you got midcard a vs midcard b doin it, its not so special and

Dusty finish ftw !!!!!!

 

[StatUS]

Why should it, though? As long as it's not overkill (which it isn't, Punk didn't hit a single GTS at the Rumble), it's a useful tool to make a match between two "equal" big names that much more important.

Guys still win 100% of their TV matches and 90% of their PPV matches with one use of their finisher. It's just that once you put certain guys in the ring, previous matches let you know it's going to take a million.

It has nothing to do with protecting finishers, they're just bad workers.

The people who mastered this style, the AJPW main eventers in the 90's, never had this issue because they knew had to build a match.

Instead of just repeating the same move, those guys established big match finishers. The heavy artillery that they kept especially for those moments. The only guy who has anything like that now is Taker, and surprise surprise his matches are always great.

Because it really only works in those athletic-based styles where any move looks like it can put you out like in real life. In the WWE where everything is more slowed down and story-based it kills off any other part of the match because you just wanna see people kick out of super moves. Most fans are conditioned to only get hype during those parts now.

 

[Scottie Drippin]

Because it really only works in those athletic-based styles. In the WWE where everything is more slowed down it kills off any other part of the match because you wanna see people kick out of super move. Most fans are conditioned to only get hype during those parts now.

Bruh, the WWE is that athletic based style, now.

And even then, not true. Current workers have thrown logic out of the windows. They move through their signature moves (which have no collective purpose) and then advance to the finishers.

Look at how Trips and Brock got the crowd legit believing that Brock was about to tap. Not just because it was his own move, but because Trips inflicted an inhuman amount of damage on Brock's arm, and then did the move. If Brock would've tapped after all of that, it would've made sense.

Rock and Cena, neither of whom ever mistaken for great workers, just don't know any way to build up to the climax of their matches. Cena uses a fukking submission for fukks sake but never does any leg or arm work work Three minutes of that match dedicated to Rocky's knee or shoulder and that STF attempt becomes a much more believable ending to the match.

It's not the fans, it's not the moves, these guys just can't fukking work.

When you go through your same TV match motions and hit your finisher, why the hell should we believe you can beat the Rock the same way you can beat Kofi Kingston?

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

Rock and Cena can work they just can't lead... Cena is awesome when he's out there with a Punk or Ziggler type. Not only do they make all of his moves look like death but they will call spots that are logical and build to a finish.

Rock used to have great matches with Jericho. Same thing. Jericho knows how to pace and structure a match. When you put two followers in the ring it's not going to be nearly as good..

 

[StatUS]

Bruh, the WWE is that athletic based style, now.

And even then, not true. Current workers have thrown logic out of the windows. They move through their signature moves (which have no collective purpose) and then advance to the finishers.

Look at how Trips and Brock got the crowd legit believing that Brock was about to tap. Not just because it was his own move, but because Trips inflicted an inhuman amount of damage on Brock's arm, and then did the move. If Brock would've tapped after all of that, it would've made sense.

Rock and Cena, neither of whom ever mistaken for great workers, just don't know any way to build up to the climax of their matches. Cena uses a fukking submission for fukks sake but never does any leg or arm work work Three minutes of that match dedicated to Rocky's knee or shoulder and that STF attempt becomes a much more believable ending to the match.

It's not the fans, it's not the moves, these guys just can't fukking work.

When you go through your same TV match motions and hit your finisher, why the hell should we believe you can beat the Rock the same way you can beat Kofi Kingston?

Just because they got some of the best workers in their history doesn't mean they went Puro or anything. Everyone in the company seems to wanna be more like Shawn Michaels than anything stiff or believable

But all of what you're saying is just storytelling which the E is good at. Brock broke Trips arm twice so the story there was HHH getting revenge for it, WWE style match through & through. Rock/Cena's story was learning from the mistakes of last years match. Plus they book both like Super heroes so they tend to throw psychology out the window just for some Clash of the Titans shyt.

 

[R=G]

Nah..Rock led that Cripple H Iron Man match perfectly..led him again at Summerslam 98..you seen him work so many face matches that you think he's being led but the Rock always worked his kind of match. They just did a face/face match where it was back and forth..for Rock/Austin, Austin always dominates matches with his offense so you're used to seeing him control because that's how he's been structured. The Rock in peril is why his matches were the loudest of the era..he knew exactly what he was doing. It was ingenius. He went heel again and took more offensive leads on Austin, Hogan, and Goldberg.

Last night was just screwing with those who thought they knew when the finish was coming. That's all. Same shyt happened in Michaels/Angle WM 21, Austin/Angle Summerslam 2001, and every big match after WM 17's Rock/Austin classic.

 

[Scottie Drippin]

Nah..Rock led that Cripple H Iron Man match perfectly..led him again at Summerslam 98..you seen him work so many face matches that you think he's being led but the Rock always worked his kind of match. They just did a face/face match where it was back and forth..for Rock/Austin, Austin always dominates matches with his offense so you're used to seeing him control because that's how he's been structured. The Rock in peril is why his matches were the loudest of the era..he knew exactly what he was doing. It was ingenius. He went heel again and took more offensive leads on Austin, Hogan, and Goldberg.

Last night was just screwing with those who thought they knew when the finish was coming. That's all. Same shyt happened in Michaels/Angle WM 21, Austin/Angle Summerslam 2001, and every big match after WM 17's Rock/Austin classic.

Except all those matches were fantastic and this one was fukking atrocious.