When people didn't report their rapists... (NSFL)

[Professor Emeritus]

People always talking like if someone didn't report their rapist in the 1960s-1970s-1980s-1990s, it means it probably didn't happen. I've always said that back then damn near no one reported their rapist, but I just ran into the worst example possible.

I'd heard of the rapist/murderer John Wayne Gacy before but never actually looked up what he did...turns out MULTIPLE people had escaped from him and either never reported it or weren't believed when they did report it.

By the way, don't read this unless you're ready to read some sick sadistic shyt. It's all copied straight from Wikipedia but ain't the kind of stuff you really want in your brain for very long.



First one, when Gacy was already on parole after serving 18 months for the attempted rape of a minor. Didn't show up to court and the case was dropped.

On February 12, 1971, Gacy was charged with sexually assaulting a teenage boy. The youth claimed that Gacy had lured him into his car at Chicago's Greyhound bus terminal and driven him to his home, where he had attempted to force the youth into sex. This complaint was subsequently dismissed when the youth failed to appear in court. The Iowa Board of Parole did not learn of this incident (which violated the conditions of his parole) and eight months later, in October 1971, Gacy's parole ended.

Second one, a year later. Was caught trying to get money out of Gacy and the case was dropped.

One week before Gacy's wedding, on June 22, he was arrested and charged with aggravated battery and reckless conduct. The arrest was in response to a complaint filed by a youth named Jackie Dee, who informed police that Gacy, impersonating a police officer, had flashed a sheriff's badge, lured him into his car, and forced him to perform oral sex. These charges were later dropped after the complainant attempted to blackmail Gacy into paying money in exchange for dropping the charges.

Third one, year after that. Never reported it to the cops.

In 1973, Gacy and a teenage employee of PDM Contractors traveled to Florida to view property Gacy had purchased. On the first night in Florida, Gacy raped the youth in their hotel room. As a result, this youth refused to stay in the same hotel room as Gacy and instead slept on the beach. Upon returning to Chicago, this employee drove to Gacy's house as he was in his yard and beat him. Gacy's mother-in-law stopped the youth from further attacking Gacy and he drove away. Gacy explained to his wife that the attack happened because he had refused to pay the youth for poor quality work.

Fourth one, two years after that. Never reported it to the cops.

Much of the labor workforce of PDM Contractors consisted of high school students and young men. One of these youths was a 15-year-old named Anthony Antonucci, whom Gacy had hired in May 1975. In July 1975, Gacy arrived at the youth's home while the youth was alone, having injured his foot at work the day prior. Gacy plied the youth with alcohol, wrestled him to the floor and cuffed Antonucci's hands behind his back. The cuff upon Antonucci's right wrist was loose: Antonucci freed his arm from the handcuff after Gacy left the room. When Gacy returned, Antonucci—a member of his high school wrestling team—pounced upon him. The youth wrestled Gacy to the floor, obtained possession of the handcuff key and cuffed Gacy's hands behind his back. Gacy screamed threats, then calmed down and promised to leave if Antonucci removed the handcuffs. The youth agreed and Gacy left the house. Antonucci later recalled that Gacy had told him as he lay on the floor: "Not only are you the only one who got out of the cuffs; you got them on me."

Fifth one just a week later. This boy sadly didn't escape but his parents KNEW who did it and the cops did nothing.

One week after the attempted assault on Antonucci, on July 31, 1975, another of Gacy's employees, 18-year-old John Butkovich, disappeared. The day before his disappearance, Butkovich had threatened Gacy over two weeks' outstanding back pay. Gacy later admitted to luring Butkovich to his home while his wife and stepchildren were visiting his sister in Arkansas, ostensibly to settle the issue of Butkovich's overdue wages. Gacy conned the youth into allowing his wrists to be cuffed behind his back, at which point Gacy strangled him to death and buried his body under the concrete floor of his garage. Gacy later admitted to having "sat on the kid's chest for a while" before killing him. Butkovich's Dodge sedan was found abandoned in a parking lot with the youth's wallet inside and the keys still in the ignition. Butkovich's father called Gacy, who claimed he was happy to help search for the youth but was sorry Butkovich had "run away". Gacy was questioned about Butkovich's disappearance and admitted that the youth and two friends had arrived at his apartment demanding Butkovich's overdue pay, but claimed all three youths had left after a compromise had been reached. Over the following three years, Butkovich's parents called police more than 100 times, urging them to investigate Gacy further.

Sixth one, the next year. Never reported it to the cops.

On July 26, 1976, Gacy employed an 18-year-old named David Cram. On August 21, Cram moved into his house. The following day, Gacy conned Cram into donning handcuffs while the youth was inebriated. Gacy swung Cram around while holding the chain linking the cuffs, then informed him that he intended to rape him. Cram, who had spent a year in the Army, kicked Gacy in the face, then freed himself from the handcuffs as Gacy lay prone. One month later, Gacy appeared at Cram's bedroom door with the intention to rape him and said: "Dave, you really don't know who I am. Maybe it would be good if you give me what I want." Cram resisted Gacy's attempts to assault him and Gacy left his bedroom. After this incident, Cram moved out of Gacy's home and subsequently left PDM Contractors, although he did periodically work for Gacy over the following two years.

Seventh one, the next year. Reported it to the cops but wasn't believed.

On December 30, 1977, Gacy abducted a 19-year-old student named Robert Donnelly from a Chicago bus stop at gunpoint. Gacy drove Donnelly home with him, raped him, tortured him with various devices, and repeatedly dunked his head into a bathtub filled with water until he passed out, then revived him. Donnelly later testified at Gacy's trial that he was in such pain that he asked Gacy to kill him to "get it over with", to which Gacy replied: "I'm getting round to it." After several hours of assaulting and torturing the youth, Gacy drove Donnelly to his place of work, removed the handcuffs from the youth's wrists, and released him. Donnelly reported the assault and Gacy was questioned about it on January 6, 1978. Gacy admitted to having had "slave-sex" with Donnelly, but insisted everything was consensual. The police believed him and no charges were filed.

Finally the eighth one in 1978. Reported it to the cops but cops did little to investigate, arrest finally happened after he tracked down Gacy on his own. Probably still would have gotten off if it wasn't for him getting charged with one of his murders at the exact same time.

In March 1978, Gacy lured a 26-year-old named Jeffrey Rignall into his car. Upon entering the car, the young man was chloroformed and driven to the house on Summerdale, where he was raped, tortured with various instruments including lit candles and whips, and repeatedly chloroformed into unconsciousness. Rignall was then driven to Lincoln Park, where he was dumped, unconscious but alive. Eventually, he managed to stagger to his girlfriend's apartment. Rignall was later informed the chloroform had permanently damaged his liver. Police were again informed of the assault but did not investigate Gacy. Rignall was able to recall, through the chloroform haze of that night, Gacy's distinctive black Oldsmobile, the Kennedy Expressway and particular side streets. He staked out the exit on the Expressway where he knew he had been driven until—in April—he saw Gacy's distinctive black Oldsmobile, which Rignall and his friends followed to 8213 West Summerdale. Police issued an arrest warrant, and Gacy was arrested on July 15. He was facing an impending trial for a battery charge for the Rignall incident when he was arrested in December for the murders.

If this was any politician/singer/actor/cop, then certain people would be lining up in defense. "Of course they're all lying. Look, that "victim" was out for money, clearly lying. Look, that one went back to work for him, clearly lying. Look, that one didn't show up for the hearing, clearly lying. Look, that story is too crazy, clearly lying." SEVEN people who escaped and either didn't report the crime or weren't believed enough to get the conviction.

And then they find 28 bodies under the psycho's house and another 5 bodies in the river.

I was just thinking about that....if rape victims in the 1970s didn't even report sadistic violent rapist murderers even when those murderers were random contractors with no power....if police didn't even believe rape victims when they immediately reporting violent rapists with a criminal record after those rapists had brutally beaten them....then how surprising is it that plenty of famous people get away with date rape and other shyt and never got reported?

 

[DEAD7]

 

[re'up]

It's pure sexism and intellectual failing that pushes that narrative, sadly, many people aren't very smart to begin with, or informed, and are conditioned to systemic hatred/contempt for women (very similar to racism) which applies to both sexes. So, people tend to believe it, despite the entirely logical and well documented reasons why many victims don't, which is too much to get into, but gets deep into self hatred, self loathing, fear, regret, and cultural norms, and how they change.

Many women I know have been sexually assaulted and raped, some reported it, some didn't, some excuse it as "boys will be boys", or blame themselves.

 

[BoBurnz]

Never let anybody tell you rape culture doesn't exist.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

It's pure sexism and intellectual failing that pushes that narrative, sadly, many people aren't very smart to begin with, or informed, and are conditioned to systemic hatred/contempt for women (very similar to racism) which applies to both sexes. So, people tend to believe it, despite the entirely logical and well documented reasons why many victims don't, which is too much to get into, but gets deep into self hatred, self loathing, fear, regret, and cultural norms, and how they change.

Many women I know have been sexually assaulted and raped, some reported it, some didn't, some excuse it as "boys will be boys", or blame themselves.

Yes to everything you said.

Not to mention that a lot of people just don't realize how much of an L people can take by reporting. Imagine if someone tortured and raped you, and you were willing to go public with it and go to the cops, and all your accuser had to say was "Oh, no, we were just having slave sex and it got a bit out of hand", and the cops believed HIM.

So now you're not just tortured and raped but you've been publicly humiliated and the entire police department and anyone else they talk to thinks you're a perverted sexual deviant.

That was in an extreme case, but if THAT happened, it has to be that much easier when it happens to women and it's just a date rape. Just look at all the horrific stuff that gets said about any female rape victim that goes public - she's a liar, she's just a slut who regretted it, she's a gold-digger, literally everything anyone can ever find in her past to harm her is brought up, and in 90% of cases the accuser gets away anyway...and people are somehow surprised that women didn't report, especially in the 1960s and 1970s when date rape wasn't even considered to really be a crime?

 

[re'up]

The Lesson Here Is Listen to the Victim

@Rhakim

Read that last year.

 

[BoBurnz]

Yes to everything you said.

Not to mention that a lot of people just don't realize how much of an L people can take by reporting. Imagine if someone tortured and raped you, and you were willing to go public with it and go to the cops, and all your accuser had to say was "Oh, no, we were just having slave sex and it got a bit out of hand", and the cops believed HIM.

So now you're not just tortured and raped but you've been publicly humiliated and the entire police department and anyone else they talk to thinks you're a perverted sexual deviant.

That was in an extreme case, but if THAT happened, it has to be that much easier when it happens to women and it's just a date rape. Just look at all the horrific stuff that gets said about any female rape victim that goes public - she's a liar, she's just a slut who regretted it, she's a gold-digger, literally everything anyone can ever find in her past to harm her is brought up, and in 90% of cases the accuser gets away anyway...and people are somehow surprised that women didn't report, especially in the 1960s and 1970s when date rape wasn't even considered to really be a crime?

Look at how this very forum treats anything like this.

Hell we had threads with overwhelming proof that R. Kelly was keeping literal sex slaves and the response was basically "aight well, I like that nikkas music so those hoes are lying".

Reporting a rape is a guaranteed public humiliation, if it even gets to trial, and the overwhelming majority of all alleged crimes not just rape do not. The defense of a rape trial is to literally shame the victim into being a "whore", into "wanting" it, in front of her friends, family, and on public record for the rest of time. Most people don't have the strength to go through a trial, and I sure as shyt wouldn't if it were about debasing my humanity and revealing my deepest and most painful moments to label the worst thing that ever happened to me in my life a "lie".

We have a deeply sick culture.

 

[re'up]

Also, how people think that the victim (esp if they are an IG model, or a celeb hanger on) have this brilliant idea, like I'll false report a rape claim, and go up against the bankroll of a multi millionaire with deep connections, and an intensive criminal investigation, and civil trial, like that sounds like easy money, or even a logical conclusion, that it will result in a financial upturn.

 

[Ciggavelli]

I've been thinking about this recently. I got some personal stake in it, from both sides. I've been with women who were sexually assaulted and not believed, and have an in-law on trial for molesting a pre-teen ().

So, I've learned both sides of this issue. I believed the women I was with that were assaulted; it only seemed like the right thing to do. I trusted them as people. It broke my heart to hear these terrible stories and how the experience has negatively affected all aspects of their lives

Then I got this in-law, says he didn't do it, says he's being set up, etc. He hasn't been convicted yet, but looking at the local news where he lives, you would think that he was already found guilty. I don't know what to believe. He doesn't seem like the pedo type, but then what is the "pedo type?" He got kicked out of school and his church and lost his job. All of this because somebody accused him of a terrible act. So, was that the right thing to do...to remove him from everything? Maybe, because it would limit his exposure. But, what if he is found innocent? His name is already tainted. Whenever you google him, his name is going to be associated with molesting a child.

So, I'm torn. we should believe the victims, but I also think somebody is innocent until proven guilty. I dunno, my in-law's life, and the life of his kids, has been changed forever. If he's guilty, then let him rot in jail. If he's innocent, what can be done to clear his name? It's like you can't escape the stigma of being accused of this terrible act, whether you're guilty or innocent

 

[re'up]

Innocent til proven guilty is a legal standard for the Judge and the jury to apply to themselves, not private citizens.

Here's an easy way to do it, I know there are, and have been vast injustices done at the arm of the Department of Justice, and local District Attorney's Offices, but for the most part, if charges are brought against someone for molestation, in a criminal court, there is a burden of proof that must be met, and can probably be believed for the most part. The DA's office probably assigned an expert sex crimes prosecutor, who evaluated the case, and reviewed all the evidence brought by detectives, and decided to take the case. These people don't take these matters lightly.

As for reputation, we are talking about the prosecuting of crimes, and you don't get your reputation back, that's the way the games goes. No way around that.

 

[Kenny West]

People give the police too much credit when investigating these incidents. Thats what it comes down to. I say this as someone who operated under the same fallacious premise that police were actually doing their jobs instead of wearing badges to throw their weight around. It wasnt until I came across this story that I realized police dont seriously investiagate/prosecute rape unless a black person is the suspect.

With that said, people dont get a pass for not reporting the crime. If the police drop the ball then accurate data on THAT would be collected like the rape kit story. Its no excuse for giving rapists a free pass nor does it justify beleiving allegations without proof.


This was a matter of law enforcement not being bothered to enforce the law without racial bias to motivate them

 

[Professor Emeritus]

I've been thinking about this recently. I got some personal stake in it, from both sides. I've been with women who were sexually assaulted and not believed, and have an in-law on trial for molesting a pre-teen ().

So, I've learned both sides of this issue. I believed the women I was with that were assaulted; it only seemed like the right thing to do. I trusted them as people. It broke my heart to hear these terrible stories and how the experience has negatively affected all aspects of their lives

Then I got this in-law, says he didn't do it, says he's being set up, etc. He hasn't been convicted yet, but looking at the local news where he lives, you would think that he was already found guilty. I don't know what to believe. He doesn't seem like the pedo type, but then what is the "pedo type?" He got kicked out of school and his church and lost his job. All of this because somebody accused him of a terrible act. So, was that the right thing to do...to remove him from everything? Maybe, because it would limit his exposure. But, what if he is found innocent? His name is already tainted. Whenever you google him, his name is going to be associated with molesting a child.

So, I'm torn. we should believe the victims, but I also think somebody is innocent until proven guilty. I dunno, my in-law's life, and the life of his kids, has been changed forever. If he's guilty, then let him rot in jail. If he's innocent, what can be done to clear his name? It's like you can't escape the stigma of being accused of this terrible act, whether you're guilty or innocent

I believe the stats that say that something like 5-7% of rape accusations are false. So it does happen.

However, I also believe the stats that at least 70-90% of real sexual assaults are never even reported. And I'm certain that in the 1960s and 1970s it was much higher.

I have no idea how to go about determining which is true in any individual case without a lot of evidence.

People give the police too much credit when investigating these incidents. Thats what it comes down to. I say this as someone who operated under the same fallacious premise that police were actually doing their jobs instead of wearing badges to throw their weight around. It wasnt until I came across this story that I realized police dont seriously investiagate/prosecute rape unless a black person is the suspect.

With that said, gets a pass for not reporting their crime. If the police drop the ball then accurate data on THAT would be collected via the rape kit story. Its no excuse for giving rapists a free pass nor does it justify beleiving allegations without proof.

This was a matter of law enforcement not being bothered to enforce the law without racial bias to motivate them

It's insane how many actual felonies are never really investigated by cops.

 

[BoBurnz]

Because the authoritarian state doesn't exist to "enforce" the law, it exists to keep the population in line. It's why Giuliani called the NYPD his "army".

They aren't an investigatory or systemic justice based organization, they exist for the sole purpose of maintaining peace among the populace through coersion. Crime rates have tumbled like a boulder the last 20 years and yet we have more cops with more guns and tanks and advanced surveillance technology than ever before.

In a just society, in a moral society, these things would not be an army of the state, but an extension of the people to ensure that nobody is abused or violated through their inalienable rights as a human being. Unfortunately we don't live in a just society, we live in a police state that pretends it isn't one.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

People give the police too much credit when investigating these incidents. Thats what it comes down to. I say this as someone who operated under the same fallacious premise that police were actually doing their jobs instead of wearing badges to throw their weight around. It wasnt until I came across this story that I realized police dont seriously investiagate/prosecute rape unless a black person is the suspect.

With that said, people dont get a pass for not reporting the crime. If the police drop the ball then accurate data on THAT would be collected like the rape kit story. Its no excuse for giving rapists a free pass nor does it justify beleiving allegations without proof.

This was a matter of law enforcement not being bothered to enforce the law without racial bias to motivate them

Man, going back and reading your comment really hitting now that I read these two articles.

An Epidemic of Disbelief

The Campus Rapist Hiding in Plain Sight



Most obvious open-and-shut cases ever and police still weren't doing shyt. Tens of thousands of rape kits just sitting in warehouses, some of them with the same serial rapists' DNA in 10-12 different victims' kits. Guy with a history of rape fukking beats the shyt out of the girl he raped, she runs away crying and tells everyone immediately, his DNA and medical evidence of rape is obvious....police still drop the case.

One article gives the stat of 98 out of 100 reported rapes result in no jail time. fukking crazy.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Because the authoritarian state doesn't exist to "enforce" the law, it exists to keep the population in line. It's why Giuliani called the NYPD his "army".

They aren't an investigatory or systemic justice based organization, they exist for the sole purpose of maintaining peace among the populace through coersion. Crime rates have tumbled like a boulder the last 20 years and yet we have more cops with more guns and tanks and advanced surveillance technology than ever before.

In a just society, in a moral society, these things would not be an army of the state, but an extension of the people to ensure that nobody is abused or violated through their inalienable rights as a human being. Unfortunately we don't live in a just society, we live in a police state that pretends it isn't one.

Maybe Giuliani did it too, but it was Bloomberg who called the NYPD his own personal army.

During a speech today at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg explained why he prefers City Hall to the White House: “I have my own army in the NYPD, which is the seventh biggest army in the world. I have my own State Department, much to Foggy Bottom’s annoyance. We have the United Nations in New York, and so we have an entree into the diplomatic world that Washington does not have.”

NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg Calls the NYPD “My Own Army”