being a successful Head Coach in the NFL is MUCH harder than being one in the NBA
Which head coach came into a better spot, Mike Tomlin or Steve Kerr?
- Thread starter Flash Thunderton
- Start date
resurrection
By Way of Deception, Thou Shalt Do War
LOL I've been posting here and SOHH for like 14 years and never once hid the fact that I'm white.. so you don't need my stance on Tomlin to know thatYou my Steeler's brethren and all, but your hatred for Tomlin is the only reason why I know you are whiter than a slice of wonder bread
. Look at this brotha's track record:
Not ONE losing season
A 82-46 record.
4 Division crowns in only 8 years
But regarding his coaching - I do have legitimate beef with him. The offense I will say I love the direction it's going. We have top 3 players at the major skill positions (QB, WR, RB) and the line is solidifying.. I think we have the most talented offense in the NFL
But come on let's talk about that defense. Name one player on this defense that other teams in the league would love to have on their squad. I can't. Cam Heyward is an above average player, but he's not GREAT and it took like 3 years for him to get there. Timmons is also an above average but not great player. Who else we got?
McClendon - average
Tuitt - potential but unknown
Shazier - potential but unknown
Jarvis Jones - borderline bust, has one more year or else he'll be off the team
Gay - good not great
Mitchell - terrible last year
Shamarko - unknown but hasn't seen the field in 2 years
Cortez Allen - terrible last year
Will Allen - old, solid backup
Moats - can play in spurts, not a star
Harrison - still disruptive but best days behind him
We better hope Dupree, Golson, and Grant are ALL above average players, and immediately, or our D is going to be in a world of hurt
When Tomlin got here, we had gods like Troy, Farrior, Harrison, Taylor, Clark, Aaron Smith, Keisel, Hampton.. there were SEVERAL great players on the field on defense at any given time. That's what made the team great and allowed us to make and win Super Bowls, even with Tomlin.
But he inherited that defense. The more the D relies on Tomlin/Colbert drafted players, the worse they get. It's dropping off a fukking cliff, and now that Keisel, Ike, and Troy are all gone there's basically only Harrison left. We have no pass rush to speak of so QBs have all day. We have nobody who can cover so QBs have all day to throw to wide open receivers. We don't even stop the run well anymore which is what we used to be great at. When you can't cover, can't rush the passer, and can't stop the run, you're in trouble.
Like I said, Ferrari --> Ford Focus, and that's being generous.
I like the offense though. Tomlin/Colbert have done a great job building that side of the ball - it seems like we are never short of talent especially at the skill positions. But damn man that defense has fallen off a fukking cliff. We do not have ONE great player on our defense right now. NOT ONE. And we used to have 5, 6, 7 running around at any given time. Also, I don't think it's a coincidence that Tomlin comes from a conservative Tampa 2 background, and we suddenly now can no longer generate turnovers on defense. Why? I suspect Tomlin's mark on this defense is being conservative. LeBeau was rarely running those exotic blitzes he was known for. We used to dominate by confusing QBs, but now everybody knows who is blitzing, and the rushers can't win 1 on 1 battles to overcome that. The DBs are taught to tackle the catch rather than play the ball so we never get knockdowns or INTs. Plus DBs get flagged for every hard hit so we can't force fumbles or incompletions with hard hits anymore.
Essentially this defense is talentless, hapless, punchless, useless. And I blame Mikey Tomlin because I highly doubt the same guy who put together the dynasty defense (Colbert) suddenly forgot how to evaluate defensive talent in 2007.
So you can throw "No losing seasons!" "Look at his record!" "We won the SB with him!" out there all you want. But he has taken an all-time great defense and completely, utterly failed to restock it. Went from 7 great players to 0. And I refuse to believe we just can't draft. There is no development happening on the defensive side of the ball. None
Without Roethlisberger, AB, and Bell, this team is the Raiders.
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General Mills
More often than not I tend to take that L.
THIS!! He is doing this while keeping his hairline crispy as fukk
I look at Marvin Lewis and his decrepit hairline and see why they have not won a playoff game yet.
That was a special defense though. A defense that went to 3 and won 2 SB's. A defense that could have played in 4 SB's(04'). Those defenses aren't easy to replace. And pretty much all those guys grew into what they would eventually become. It definitely didn't happen over night. It took time. Farrior was the number 8 pick that wasn't resigned by the Jets after his rookie deal was up. Even then he was a more of a backup plan for us in the event we didn't resign Earl Holmes. Clark was on his 3rd team in 5 years. Keisel didn't start a game until his 4th year in the league(Cowher's last) Prior to Tomlin getting here Harrison only started 3 games because of injury to Haggans and was primarily a special teams player. And that was between getting cut from the practice squad numerous times. Ike was benched mid season for poor play the year prior to Tomlin arriving. He didn't even regain his starting spot until the last game of that season. Troy didn't start a single game as a rookie
-McLendon is good. I think he gets a lot of flack because he's not in the Casey Hampton run stuffer mode but if one guy on the line is horrific(Cam Thomas)it has a domino effect down the line
-I like Tuitt's potential. A full NFL weight lifting off season + the experience he gained last season by playing should help him
-I like Shazier's speed. Needs to stay healthy.
-It is show and prove time for Jones. The injury definitely hurt his development last season but I'm not quite ready to give up on him yet
Honestly if Lamarr Woodley, a guy who was on a HOF path, a guy who signed a new deal and started getting hurt and appeared to be playing too big didn't get cut, I'm not even sure Jarvis is drafted.-Agreed about Gay
-Mitchell was bad, and I'm not all that high on him but apparently he was playing with a torn groin for much of last season
-I think Shamarko's various injuries has been his problem more so than bad play, plus he's been behind Troy, who they weren't gonna bench regardless of if he was flabby or not
-Cortez was bad last year but he went through the same thing as Ike did when he signed his deal back in 06'. Ike bounced back under Tomlin and I'm hopeful Cortez does the same. Most Steeler fans were happy with his signing.
Guys got old. It happens. I don't think Tomlin's defensive background has anything to do with it. Maybe LeBeau's scheme got stale. I read an article saying only the Steelers and Patriots ran the 3-4 D in 2001. Around 6 or 7 teams ran it in 2007. The cross fire blitz may have been
from 94-2007 but is it really that confusing anymore in 2015? Especially with over half the league running a 3-4 defense now? Maybe with the amount of teams running the 3-4 the Steelers don't really have the pick of the litter at LB/DE that they once had when they were one of the few running this DI honestly suspect the tackle the catch and not play the ball was a LeBeau thing. LeBeau is shown the door and we draft two guys who may not be able to play the run like Ike but can snatch the ball out of the air in Golson and Holliman.
Thatrogueassdiaz
We're on the blood path now
Kerr. I'm a huge Tomlin fan and I think he's done wonders.
NormanConnors
Detroit/MSU Spartan Life
Kerr easily
BLAZO da GAWD
Superstar
To note, he's also doing it in the AFC North where just last year, the division sent 3 teams to the playoffs.
82-46 record, a championship and last year his team won 11 games. No losing seasons yet and it's MUCH harder to keep a great football team together than keeping a great basketball team together. If Tomlin gets fired tomorrow, he'll have a another head coaching job before the blink of an eye. Don't disrespect the brother.
Tomlin is a top 5 HC in the NFL.
Born2BKing
Veteran
Yeah, only if he could duplicate all those superbowls Bill Cowher won.
Born2BKing
Veteran
You forgot to mention 2 superbowl appearances and 1 superbowl win. If Tomlin was a cac, he'd be a god in Pittsburgh. I'd bet my life on that.Too early to say right now, but football is generally a much harder sport to remain 'competitive' over several years- so much harder to detect what is a better spot. For example, in hindsight John Harbaugh stepped into the RIGHT spot after all those top round defensive picks- but did anyone think so at the time? Hell, half the Browns team is top 1st round picks, would you say any of their new coaches stepped into the 'right spot'?
With respect to Tomlin-
The year before Tomlin arrived, the Steelers were 8-8. 2 years later, they win the SB, largely due to him drafting Woodley and promoting Harrison over Porter. It wasnt like he had some turnkey operation.
Not ONE losing season
A 82-46 record.
4 Division crowns in only 8 years
I say Tomlin because he ended up in a historically great situation.
He has one of the more secure jobs in professional sports.
He has one of the more secure jobs in professional sports.
Born2BKing
Veteran
Kerr...period
Nfl and dealing with 53 players and contracts and constant injuries and u still being competitive every year is remarkable
Tomlin job period is harder especially with the expectations in Pittsburgh
Nfl and dealing with 53 players and contracts and constant injuries and u still being competitive every year is remarkable
Tomlin job period is harder especially with the expectations in Pittsburgh
Spaceman Piff
Superstar
tomlin took over a super bowl winner for an organization with unparalleled job security for head coaches..
i can't imagine an nfl coach walking into a better situation than that.
i can't imagine an nfl coach walking into a better situation than that.
Born2BKing
Veteran
@resurrection Cowher took over the steelers in 1992 and won his first ship in in 2005. 
Bet he a legend though huh.
Bet he a legend though huh.
resurrection
By Way of Deception, Thou Shalt Do War
Not for me.. Cowher was great at some things.. Evaluating and developing talent, and winning in the regular season by playing ball control offense and run stuff defense.. But he had a lost a bunch of AFC championship games and a super bowl so he had the rap "can't win the big one".. Also he was stubborn as fukk thinking he could keep being great without a great QB. Notice the team only truly took off after he finally gave in and drafted Ben. He was great at putting talent at every position except the one that mattered, so nah I don't want him back either.@resurrection Cowher took over the steelers in 1992 and won his first ship in in 2005.
I just think the defense is a fukking embarrassment, whether it's due to bad talent evaluation or bad talent development (or both), either way Tomlin isn't doing the job.
And y'all 30,000 foot view, watch-Steelers-only-on-redzone-channel fans can spout off his record all you want, but as soon as those hall of famers started getting old, the team was looking REAL flabby for a few years.
And don't even get me started on how the team simply doesn't show up to play the bad teams that are supposed to be easy W's. I'm telling you, y'all love Tomlin but you wouldn't if he was your teams coach. No turnovers, no sacks, lays eggs against bad teams, can't find or develop defensive talent if it hit him in the face. Like I said though I do love the offense, even though he allowed the line to go to shyt for years before it got any better. It should be a top 3 offense this year