Who Has the Most Sophisticated and the Simplest Vocabulary in Hip Hop History?

[The Real]

at you removing the smilies from my post so you could go with the "You mad" angle. Nobody's mad, I'm laughing at you being so desperate to find a reason to hate Drake.

"Ah-ha! I can't believe it, Drake only used 3522 unique words in his first 35,000! What a horrible rapper! I can't wait to tell all my friends that like Drake, I bet this'll break their heart!"

fukkin nerd

Mad or not, you're emotional as hell. Clearly a mild jab at Drake set off your stan alarm and you rushed in to attempt mockery. And why should I be desperate to "hate" Drake? You're trying to put me on the same emotional plane as you are, which doesn't work, since I don't think Drake is "horrible," just wildly overrated and lacking in creativity, like most of the other garbage that is hyped right now. One of the most common defenses of his work, particularly from his white fans, is that it's "literate." This chart proves that isn't true.

 

[FreshAIG]

Listen to how emotional you are. Calm the fukk down. I'm Black and I've never listened to an Aesop Rock album in my entire life. I grew up on early-mid 90s hip-hop. Don't be mad because I think Drake is garbage.



Wu Tang lacks "stylistic ability" compared to Drake? Can you define what you mean by that? Wu Tang, at least when they were still fresh, were more creative in almost every way than most other groups, and individual rappers, too- conceptually, aesthetically, etc. They defined more than most rappers.



Yes, it is. A children's book has a smaller vocab than The Autobiography of Malcolm X. You gonna sit here and tell me that they're both the same, or that any children's book has a chance to be more expressive than something like the Autobiography?

You're talking lyricism, I'm not. I'm purely talking about vocabulary and its relation to the size of an expressive palette . Yall are putting all kinds of things into my post that weren't there. Overall lyricism, overall quality, etc, have nothing to do with my post.

Fam, give me a break. Like are you serious right now? SMH. At least make a good argument. You comparing a children's book to an autobiography written for sophisticated adults (which has NOTHING to do with lyricism in music). If you want to discuss, discuss with legit points, don't do that man.

 

[Why-Fi]

This shyt isn't done right...

if its just a data miner running off an algorithm then some are not appropriate, for example das efx, because they make up words
that doesn't completely break the whole thing though, because gza doesn't typically make up words. so his spot might be accurate

for making up words de la and e40 seem like they should be higher...

 

[The Real]

Fam, give me a break. Like are you serious right now? SMH. At least make a good argument. You comparing a children's book to an autobiography (which has NOTHING to do with lyricism in music). If you want to discuss, discuss with legit points, don't do that man.

It was a valid comparison. The point is to illustrate what a larger vocabulary does. If you want me to stick to music comparisons, that's fine. Compare a song like Laffy Taffy to Dead Presidents 1 or 2 or Life's a bytch. There is no possible way you could rearrange the lyrics in Laffy Taffy to make them as expressive as the latter two songs. Why? Because the vocab is too small.

 

[desp]

Mad or not, you're emotional as hell. Clearly a mild jab at Drake set off your stan alarm and you rushed in to attempt mockery. And why should I be desperate to "hate" Drake? You're trying to put me on the same emotional plane as you are, which doesn't work, since I don't think Drake is "horrible," just wildly overrated and lacking in creativity. One of the most common defenses of his work, particularly from his white fans, is that it's "literate." This chart proves that isn't true.

For one thing, I've never heard anybody use "it's literate" to defend any rapper. So I dunno what kinda geeks you be associating with.

But to humor your ignorance, Ghostface Killah is above Drake. So Ghostface's music is more "literate" than Drake's?

I'd quit replying but I've never seen somebody so stupid try to sound so intelligent.

 

[The Ruler 09]

if its just a data miner running off an algorithm then some are not appropriate, for example das efx, because they make up words
that doesn't completely break the whole thing though, because gza doesn't typically make up words. so his spot might be accurate

for making up words de la and e40 seem like they should be higher...

Yeah your right, that's it, it's not one right and has flaws, as long as that's recognized and it's not taken as conclusive then it's cool. It's a bit too statistical I wonder if there counting shyt like names too, if so then Game will be beyond Shakespeare levels lol.

 

[FreshAIG]

It was a valid comparison. The point is to illustrate what a larger vocabulary does. If you want me to stick to music comparisons, that's fine. Compare a song like Laffy Taffy to Dead Presidents 1 or 2 or Life's a bytch. There is no possible way you could rearrange the lyrics in Laffy Taffy to make them as expressive as the latter two songs. Why? Because the vocab is too small.

No it's not a valid comparison. You compared a book specifically made for children to an autobiography of a civil rights leader.

That is nothing to do with anything. And what are you doing comparing Laffy Taffy to Life A bytch? What? You're making extreme comparisons and not making sense. Laffy Taffy sucks because the beat sucks and their lyrics sucks. The song being bad has nothing to do with their lack of vocabulary it has to do with how poorly the used the words when rhyming. Their lyrics aren't poor because they didn't use a wide range of words, they're poor because they say nothing with the words they're using.

Okay, let me ask you, what was a better display of expression, and displayed more thought, NWA fukk the Police or Blackalicious Alphabetic Aerobics?

 

[The Real]

For one thing, I've never heard anybody use "it's literate" to defend any rapper. So I dunno what kinda geeks you be associating with.

That's on you. I can't be held responsible for you not having your ear to the ground. Shyt, even Drake's own Wikipedia entry mentions reviews that use the word "literate" to describe him. It's a very common defense of his work, especially from white people who believe he is more complex than any older rapper. The people I was referring to in my original post with set off your stan alarm were the white Drake fans I know who believe those things.

But to humor your ignorance, Ghostface Killah is above Drake. So Ghostface's music is more "literate" than Drake's?

No. Literacy is composed of more than vocab size. The point isn't that someone like Ghost is more literate than Drake, which would be a strange comparison. It's that Drake isn't as literate as his defenders claim, since vocab size is essential to it, even if it's not all there is to it.

I'd quit replying but I've never seen somebody so stupid try to sound so intelligent.

More ad-homs? You can do what you want, but I'm going to avoid personal insults because, even though you're a Drake fan, I respect your passion in defending an artist you like.

 

[The Real]

No it's not a valid comparison. You compared a book specifically made for children to an autobiography of a civil rights leader.

That is nothing to do with anything. And what are you doing comparing Laffy Taffy to Life A bytch? What? You're making extreme comparisons and not making sense. Laffy Taffy sucks because the beat sucks and their lyrics sucks. The song being bad has nothing to do with their lack of vocabulary it has to do with how poorly the used the words when rhyming. Their lyrics aren't poor because they didn't use a wide range of words, they're poor because they say nothing with the words they're using.

Okay, let me ask you, what was a better display of expression, and displayed more thought, NWA fukk the Police or Blackalicious Alphabetic Aerobics?

Bruh, you're adding all kinds of things to my point that are irrelevant to what I'm saying. You're conflating "how poorly words are used" with "saying nothing" with "thought" with "a song being bad." We all know Laffy Taffy is trash, but I'm talking specifically about vocab size and scope of expression, not how the words are used or the value of the specific content or its thoughtfulness.

Extreme or not, doesn't matter. In fact, extreme comparisons are the ones that make the point easier to see, since they show you exactly what is at stake in a higher vs lower vocabulary.

 

[TheDarceKnight]

I wanted to see where Monch was, but couldn't find him on the list.

I figured Canibus might be near at the top, but then I saw ole Aesop fukking Rock and went "well of course."

 

[Hades]

As soon as I read this I knew that a White rapper would be at the top. I admit that the premise is interesting but this reeks of Rapgenius and its ilk. White people try to "science" everything and somehow they are always the victor and most superior.

Music is emotion and the expression of such emotion. Simply put, people respond to what they feel.

This dude is a coder who made a formula and some really small parameter to run his experiment. Of course, it downs many rappers in the process and LOL at his plea cop for DMX's music at the end. Things like this is why I hate discussing music a lot of the time. Hoe ass statistics like this and Rap Genius is the nonsense that will be used as "evidence" to measure something that is immeasurable.

@blackslash hit it on the head (minus all the name calling),

Ofc a cac would be on top in thsi list because cacs dnt know hip hop

They look at rap like some sort of national geographic type sht and think this rap sht is focused on how much big words u can fit in ya rhymess

Blacks, the masters of rhythm and musicality understand that rap is much more than words something that cacs like aesop rock dnt understand

 

[newworldafro]

I've never heard anyone put together the words K does. By far dudes vocab is more expansive than the obvious lyricists listed in this thread....

He definitely has lyrics, but his delivery sounds forced. Canibus has lyrics and his delivery isn't forced, but sounds almost overly aggressive for the beats he raps over. I'll have to listen to more K-Rino and Aesop cause I honestly havent' listened to much of their music before.....

 

[Walt]

I don't really see the point of this.

Then STFU and GTFO the thread, bytch nikka.



Nah, but seriously, I feel similarly as you can see in the first post, my dude.

http://mdaniels.com/vocab/analysis.html

shyt like this is only kind of interesting, mostly boring to me. But I was laughing at DMX being dead last and the four dudes he has way below average on the chart.

And the list made me laugh for a lot of reasons, including it being a cliche white rap fan's wet dream: Aesop, Kool Keith, and Wu Tang reign supreme!

What in the world does that list have to do with his lyrics being complex and mature? You can have complex lyrics without having a large vocabulary.

See, I was afraid this was gonna happen. nikkas who really don't know anything about MCing skills and lyricism gonna think this means something. Large words has absolutely NOTHING to do with how complex you are. You can be complex using 4 letter words.

I agree completely with this, and I also agree the comparison between a children's book and an Alex Haley book is specious. A better comparison would be between works of fiction - you have authors who write flowery ass prose that says nothing, and then you have someone like Ernest Hemingway who is known for plain language yet managed to create works regarded as American masterpieces. Style, structure, and content will always trump a verse full of dictionary.com Words Of The Day.

That all said, I still find this shyt hilarious. DMX dead last kills me.

 

[The Real]

I agree completely with this, and I also agree the comparison between a children's book and an Alex Haley book is specious. A better comparison would be between works of fiction - you have authors who write flowery ass prose that says nothing, and then you have someone like Ernest Hemingway who is known for plain language yet managed to create works regarded as American masterpieces. Style, structure, and content will always trump a verse full of dictionary.com Words Of The Day.

The point of the children's book/Autobiography comparison is that there is a relationship between vocab and expressivity- not an absolute correlation where more words = more expressivity, because, like you say with the Hemingway example, that is always, even often not the case, but more a relationship of sufficiency, such that a general lack of vocab generally restricts expression, and below a certain point, there's very little you can do with it. The same principle applies to the Laffy Taffy vs Dead Presidents comparison. It's not an indication of the overall quality of the music, or even the quality of the lyricism, which is why I don't understand why people keep bringing up what trumps vocab and what is ultimately more valuable- it's just an indication of the breadth of the lyrics.

I should take an L for not clarifying that in the first post, though. I didn't mean to come off like Drake's complexity (which I would also argue is nonexistent, for different reasons) is disproved by having a small vocab. Only the grand pretentions about his literacy are.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

Did they count "hellachopta" as a unique word for Birdman?

Someone on said Birdman has a vocabulary of about 100 words. I believe it. I wonder where/how he would rank