Why Are Liberals So Against Seperating Families At The Border?
- Thread starter Prince.Skeletor
- Start date
storyteller
Veteran
Is HL saying that families are being maliciously separated? Or that the reasons given are false? Or what exactly?
Surely adults faking as parents isn’t acceptable to anyone.
I know this idiot got bushed, but I think it's important to address some of the arguments being tossed around to defend this family separation crap...
1. Starting with that last bit because it came up in Kirstjen Nielsen's press conference yesterday, "Surely adults faking as parents isn't acceptable to anyone." That is correct, it's unacceptable and the buzz stat Nielsen used to dog whistle this argument was that there was an increase of 315% in fraudulent cases at the border aka someone claiming a child at the border that isn't theirs. However, the actual number is 196 cases out of 31,000 families processed or .6% and the data has only been tracked for two years so there aren't actual precedents for what is high or low. To draw any correlations about what causes increases or decreases is essentially guessing and at a .6% rate, this is NOT some huge threat that requires breaking up families, overloading facilities and leaving kids in awful conditions without their family and in a new country.
Kirstjen Nielsen Justifies Family Separation by Pointing to Increase in Fraud. But the Data Is Very Limited.
2. Are the reasons given false? Or what Exactly?
Well, let's start with what has been normal. First time offenders who cross the border undocumented have historically been treated as civil offenders, it's a misdemeanor. Characterizing asylum seekers as criminals is thus a new precedent set by this administration. It starts with the zero tolerance policy that Sessions handed down and Sessions has spoken about this move as a deterrent. It was known from jump that a result like this was coming and I'm sure plenty have seen the ridiculous stats on children separated from their parents in just the last 6 weeks and counting. So the reasons given aren't exactly false, they've just been newly manufactured.
Are undocumented immigrants committing a crime? Not necessarily - CNNPolitics
As far as whether or not this is the first time it's happened...kinda yes. If you take into account the scope and the administration's actions being directly tracked to this occurring, it is indeed the first time. But previous administrations have seen this occur in a smaller scope and as someone who cares about this issue, I can say that we pressed the Obama Administration on this from the left. He didn't get the nickname "deporter in chief" from Republicans who care about family, that was us on the left. But the smaller scale and the fact that a smaller segment of the public cared meant that it wasn't front page news. I like to think the pressure we put up led to DACA however and the DREAM Act bill was penned and pushed during this span as well. So we were fighting this fight even when it was a Dem.
Here he's pressured by Dems and leftists
Democrats lash out at Obama over immigration raids
Here's an article regarding his olive branch
Obama Immigration Speech: The President Fulfills His Promise to Progressives - The Atlantic
3. HL is saying that families are being maliciously separated?
YES.
Here's Jeff Sessions announcing with a smile the policy and mentioning family separation; like I said, they knew what this would mean.
Here's a recent op-ed that points out - A. the idea behind this is to limit asylum seekers, it's a deterrent. B. they're turning asylum seekers back at the border entry points and saying they're all full. This ENCOURAGES the desperate to cross at other points to get inside and then go to the border patrol. Like I said, this still would be a misdemeanor under all previous administrations but these people are being treated as criminals due to that zero tolerance policy Sessions gleefully announced and because they were turned away from the proper point of entry.
- The Washington Post
This topic is important and it's a GANG of misinformation being shared by the admin and idiots like the bushed fool I quoted above. Do no let them confuse you or misrepresent figures, don't let them muddy the waters or use assumptions over data or historical precedent. This is wrong and if you see the arguments above, be comfortable telling the people pushing faulty points that they're WRONG.
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AndroidHero
Superstar
These people are psychopaths.
DonKnock
KPJ Gonna Save Us
GPBear
The Tape Crusader
Trump really spelled it “Boarder” security today
I don’t get why Twitter allows obviously racist and xenophobic propaganda/rhetoric from far right political figures to flood their site.
I don’t get why Twitter allows obviously racist and xenophobic propaganda/rhetoric from far right political figures to flood their site.
Did you report him for shytting on AAs? Or were you dapping him?@DEAD7 can shyt on AA all he wants but as soon as he talks about Immigrants(Mainly Mestizos) he finally get Bushed.
shyts reminds me of ESPN relationship with Stephen A. Smith and Jemele Hill.
But this is factually incorrect. He lost his Modship for shytting on AAs.
Who modded this thread so I can rep. Excellent work
Supercoolmayo
Superstar
Timothy Marley
Pro
Credit to a woman lawyer. Sorry. Idk her name
Michelle Martin is her name
There is so much misinformation out there about the Trump administration's new "zero tolerance" policy of separating parents and children at the border. Before responding to a post defending this policy, please do your research..I'll make it easier for you:
Myth: This is not a new policy and was practiced under Obama and Clinton - FALSE. The policy to separate parents and children is new and was instituted on 4/6/2018. It was the brainchild of John Kelly to serve as a deterrent for undocumented immigration, approved by Trump, and adopted by Sessions. Prior administrations detained migrant families but didn’t have a practice of forcibly separating parents from their children unless the adults were deemed unfit.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1049751/download
Myth: This is the only way to deter undocumented immigration - FALSE. Annual trends show that undocumented immigration is at a 46 year low. We do NOT have people rushing to cross our border. What we have are people crossing the border illegally because they've already been hired by a US company, or because they are seeking political asylum. Economic migrants come to this country because our country has kept the demand going. But again, most of these people are not economic migrants, they are asylum-seekers.
https://www.npr.org/2017/12/05/568546381/arrests-for-illegal-border-crossings-hit-46-year-low
Myth: Most of the people coming across the border are just trying to take advantage of our country by taking our jobs - FALSE. Most of the parents who have been impacted by Trump's "zero tolerance" policy have presented themselves as political asylum-seekers at a U.S. port-of-entry, from El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras. Rather than processing their claims, they have been taken into custody on the spot and had their children ripped from their arms. The ACLU alleges that this practice violates the Asylum Act, and the UN asserts that it violates the UN Treaty on the State of Refugees, one of the few treaties the US has ratified. This is an illegal act on the part of the United States government, not to mention morally and ethically reprehensible.
https://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/21/us/meatpackers-profits-hinge-on-pool-of-immigrant-labor.html
Myth: We're a country that respects the Rule of Law, and if people break the law, this is what they get - FALSE. We are a country that has an above-ground system of immigration and an underground system. Our government (under both parties) has always been aware that US companies recruit workers in the poorest parts of Mexico for cheap labor, and ICE (and its predecessor INS) has looked the other way because this underground economy benefits our country to the tune of billions of dollars annually. Thus, even though the majority of people crossing the border now are asylum-seekers, those who are economic migrants (migrant workers) likely have been recruited here to do jobs Americans will not do.
https://www.upi.com/Donald-Trumps-wall-ign…/2621477498203/
Myth: The children have to be separated from their parents because their parents must be arrested and it would be cruel to put children in jail with their parents - FALSE. Seeking asylum is not against the law. Also, with regard to economic migrants, crossing the border without documentation is a misdemeanor not requiring an arrest. Additionally, parents have been detained with their children in ICE "family residential centers" for years. The Trump administration's shift in policy is for political purposes only, not legal ones.
See p. 18: https://www.aclu.org/legal-document...s-opposition-defendants-motion-dismiss-doc-56
Myth: We have rampant fraud in our asylum process the proof of which is the significant increase we have in the number of people applying for asylum. FALSE. The increase in asylum seekers is a direct result of the increase in civil conflict and violence across the globe. While some people may believe that we shouldn't allow any refugees into our country because "it's not our problem," neither our current asylum law nor our ideological foundation as a country support such an isolationist approach. There is very little evidence to support Sessions' claim that abuse of our asylum-seeking policies is rampant. Also, what Sessions failed to mention is that the majority of asylum seekers are from China, not South of the border. Here is a very fair and balanced assessment of his statements:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...essions-claim-about-asylum-system-fraudulent/
Myth: This policy is legal. FALSE. The ACLU filed a lawsuit against the Trump administration on 5/6, and a recent court ruling denied the government's motion to dismiss the suit. The judge deciding the case stated that the Trump Administration policy is "brutal, offensive, and fails to comport with traditional notions of fair play and decency." The case is moving forward because it was deemed to have legal merit.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...s-separating-families-at-its-border-quicktake
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/06/us/family-separations-migrants-court.html
Michelle Martin is her name
There is so much misinformation out there about the Trump administration's new "zero tolerance" policy of separating parents and children at the border. Before responding to a post defending this policy, please do your research..I'll make it easier for you:
Myth: This is not a new policy and was practiced under Obama and Clinton - FALSE. The policy to separate parents and children is new and was instituted on 4/6/2018. It was the brainchild of John Kelly to serve as a deterrent for undocumented immigration, approved by Trump, and adopted by Sessions. Prior administrations detained migrant families but didn’t have a practice of forcibly separating parents from their children unless the adults were deemed unfit.
https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1049751/download
Myth: This is the only way to deter undocumented immigration - FALSE. Annual trends show that undocumented immigration is at a 46 year low. We do NOT have people rushing to cross our border. What we have are people crossing the border illegally because they've already been hired by a US company, or because they are seeking political asylum. Economic migrants come to this country because our country has kept the demand going. But again, most of these people are not economic migrants, they are asylum-seekers.
https://www.npr.org/2017/12/05/568546381/arrests-for-illegal-border-crossings-hit-46-year-low
Myth: Most of the people coming across the border are just trying to take advantage of our country by taking our jobs - FALSE. Most of the parents who have been impacted by Trump's "zero tolerance" policy have presented themselves as political asylum-seekers at a U.S. port-of-entry, from El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras. Rather than processing their claims, they have been taken into custody on the spot and had their children ripped from their arms. The ACLU alleges that this practice violates the Asylum Act, and the UN asserts that it violates the UN Treaty on the State of Refugees, one of the few treaties the US has ratified. This is an illegal act on the part of the United States government, not to mention morally and ethically reprehensible.
https://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/21/us/meatpackers-profits-hinge-on-pool-of-immigrant-labor.html
Myth: We're a country that respects the Rule of Law, and if people break the law, this is what they get - FALSE. We are a country that has an above-ground system of immigration and an underground system. Our government (under both parties) has always been aware that US companies recruit workers in the poorest parts of Mexico for cheap labor, and ICE (and its predecessor INS) has looked the other way because this underground economy benefits our country to the tune of billions of dollars annually. Thus, even though the majority of people crossing the border now are asylum-seekers, those who are economic migrants (migrant workers) likely have been recruited here to do jobs Americans will not do.
https://www.upi.com/Donald-Trumps-wall-ign…/2621477498203/
Myth: The children have to be separated from their parents because their parents must be arrested and it would be cruel to put children in jail with their parents - FALSE. Seeking asylum is not against the law. Also, with regard to economic migrants, crossing the border without documentation is a misdemeanor not requiring an arrest. Additionally, parents have been detained with their children in ICE "family residential centers" for years. The Trump administration's shift in policy is for political purposes only, not legal ones.
See p. 18: https://www.aclu.org/legal-document...s-opposition-defendants-motion-dismiss-doc-56
Myth: We have rampant fraud in our asylum process the proof of which is the significant increase we have in the number of people applying for asylum. FALSE. The increase in asylum seekers is a direct result of the increase in civil conflict and violence across the globe. While some people may believe that we shouldn't allow any refugees into our country because "it's not our problem," neither our current asylum law nor our ideological foundation as a country support such an isolationist approach. There is very little evidence to support Sessions' claim that abuse of our asylum-seeking policies is rampant. Also, what Sessions failed to mention is that the majority of asylum seekers are from China, not South of the border. Here is a very fair and balanced assessment of his statements:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...essions-claim-about-asylum-system-fraudulent/
Myth: This policy is legal. FALSE. The ACLU filed a lawsuit against the Trump administration on 5/6, and a recent court ruling denied the government's motion to dismiss the suit. The judge deciding the case stated that the Trump Administration policy is "brutal, offensive, and fails to comport with traditional notions of fair play and decency." The case is moving forward because it was deemed to have legal merit.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...s-separating-families-at-its-border-quicktake
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/06/us/family-separations-migrants-court.html
If you can't feel for kids getting ripped from their moms and thrown in kennels indefinitely, your soul is gone
i don't know man...maybe i'm cold but, to me it sounds like illegal immigrants are using their kids to garner sympathy....their parents broke the law. should the kids be separated from their parents and thrown in prison camps....NO. Of course not. But, should we be allowing millions of Hispanics to come into America? Also no.
Hardest Since MC Ren
Kizz My Black Azz
Modville to the BushesDid you report him for shytting on AAs? Or were you dapping him?
But this is factually incorrect. He lost his Modship for shytting on AAs.
Literally
Mantis Toboggan M.D.
Drink wolf cola
He’s lucky that was his only penalty for trolling during a nazi rally and deleting threads of posters demanding he be de-modded as punishment for it. A couple people got banned for doing the same thing he did.Modville to the Bushes
Literally
Berniewood Hogan
IT'S BERNIE SANDERS WITH A STEEL CHAIR!
Scroll up a couple posts. They're seeking asylum and instead of being declined, they're imprisoned. For a non-crime. It's just fascism, it's okay to say it.
If you can't feel for kids getting ripped from their moms and thrown in kennels indefinitely, your soul is gone
No, one is being thrown in any kennels. That is an outright prevarication. There have been plenty articles by The Atlantic, CNN and The New York Times that state that alternative facts are being used with supposed "border crisis," and those are not helping anyone.