Why are there no female libertarians?

[badhat]

Personally, I think it'd be more interesting to defend the Koch Brothers from a Libertarian point, but maybe their names are too poisonous to do so earnestly.

 

[ⒶⓁⒾⒶⓈ]

Really, there are two libertarian parties? Really sway? really?

Elmo say Cato Institute is NOT the same as the Libertarian party...why are you in HL again??

 

[Ghost_In_A_Shell]

Elmo say Cato Institute is NOT the same as the Libertarian party...why are you in HL again??

U.S. libertarianism[edit]

Former US Congressman and presidential candidate Ron Paul, a self-described libertarian, is one of the most popular contemporary libertarians
In the United States, polls (circa 2006) find that the views and voting habits of between 10 and 20 percent (and increasing) of voting age Americans may be classified as "fiscally conservative and socially liberal, or libertarian."[26][319] This is based on pollsters and researchers defining libertarian views as fiscally conservative and socially liberal (based on the common US meanings of the terms) and against government intervention in economic affairs, and for expansion of personal freedoms.[26] Through 20 polls on this topic spanning 13 years, Gallup found that voters who are libertarian on the political spectrum ranged from 17–23% of the US electorate.[320] However, a 2014 Pew Poll found that 23% of Americans who identify as libertarians have no idea what the word means.[321]

2009 saw the rise of the Tea Party movement, an American political movement known for advocating a reduction in the U.S. national debt and federal budget deficit by reducing U.S. government spending and taxes, which had a significant libertarian component:[322] a 2011 Reason-Rupe poll found that among those who self-identified as Tea Party supporters, 41 percent leaned libertarian and 59 percent, socially conservative.[323] The movement, named after the Boston Tea Party, also contains conservative[324] and populist elements,[325] and has sponsored multiple protests and supported various political candidates since 2009. Tea Party activities have declined since 2010 with the number of chapters across the country slipping from about 1,000 to 600.[326][327] Mostly, Tea Party organizations are said to have shifted away from national demonstrations to local issues.[326] Following the selection of Paul Ryan as Mitt Romney's 2012 vice-presidential running mate, the New York Times declared that Tea Party lawmakers are no longer a fringe of the conservative coalition, but now "indisputably at the core of the modern Republican Party."[328]


Governor Gary Johnson, 2012 and 2016 Libertarian Party presidential candidate
In 2012, anti-war presidential candidates (Libertarian Republican Ron Paul and Libertarian Party candidate Gary Johnson) raised millions of dollars and garnered millions of votes despite opposition to their obtaining ballot access by Democrats and Republicans.[329] The 2012 Libertarian National Convention, which saw Gary Johnson and James P. Gray nominated as the 2012 presidential ticket for the Libertarian Party, resulted in the most successful result for a third-party presidential candidacy since 2000, and the best in the Libertarian Party's history by vote number. Johnson received 1% of the popular vote, amounting to more than 1.2 million votes.[330][331] Johnson has expressed a desire to win at least 5 percent of the vote so that the Libertarian Party candidates could get equal ballot access and federal funding, thus subsequently ending the two-party system.[332][333][334]

Libertarianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




you really need more people.

 

[ⒶⓁⒾⒶⓈ]

So? This thread's based about ideological Libertarians. If you wanna argue that the Koch Brothers' basic ideological stance of less gov't + gay rights + military withdrawals are separate from the basic concepts of Libertarianism as it's practiced in the US, by all means, go ahead. I'm saying that the Koch Brothers are fundamentally Libertarian in thought. If you wanna to that and hold to a semantic firewall of Libertarian Party activity, I think you're picking your ground carefully very intentionally.

I disagree ...the original premise was lotuseater saying that the Tea party was the same as the libertarian Party and funded by the same people..

i asked for proof of that (which i still await)

then you post about the Cato institute ....even though the libertarian party PRE DATES the Cato institute by roughly 10 years...I dont even know why you thought that was relevant.. oh wait because they share the same ideological stance? thats still not proof of common funding.

The association fallacy, also known as guilt by association, is a logical fallacy that occurs when a person/belief is supported or attacked because of its relation to some other person/belief. It is, to an extent, a version of a non sequitur.

This fallacy can be done in either a positive or negative (derogatory) way. In both cases, it is equally fallacious

 

[DEAD7]

 

[ⒶⓁⒾⒶⓈ]

U.S. libertarianism[edit]

Former US Congressman and presidential candidate Ron Paul, a self-described libertarian, is one of the most popular contemporary libertarians
In the United States, polls (circa 2006) find that the views and voting habits of between 10 and 20 percent (and increasing) of voting age Americans may be classified as "fiscally conservative and socially liberal, or libertarian."[26][319] This is based on pollsters and researchers defining libertarian views as fiscally conservative and socially liberal (based on the common US meanings of the terms) and against government intervention in economic affairs, and for expansion of personal freedoms.[26] Through 20 polls on this topic spanning 13 years, Gallup found that voters who are libertarian on the political spectrum ranged from 17–23% of the US electorate.[320] However, a 2014 Pew Poll found that 23% of Americans who identify as libertarians have no idea what the word means.[321]

2009 saw the rise of the Tea Party movement, an American political movement known for advocating a reduction in the U.S. national debt and federal budget deficit by reducing U.S. government spending and taxes, which had a significant libertarian component:[322] a 2011 Reason-Rupe poll found that among those who self-identified as Tea Party supporters, 41 percent leaned libertarian and 59 percent, socially conservative.[323] The movement, named after the Boston Tea Party, also contains conservative[324] and populist elements,[325] and has sponsored multiple protests and supported various political candidates since 2009. Tea Party activities have declined since 2010 with the number of chapters across the country slipping from about 1,000 to 600.[326][327] Mostly, Tea Party organizations are said to have shifted away from national demonstrations to local issues.[326] Following the selection of Paul Ryan as Mitt Romney's 2012 vice-presidential running mate, the New York Times declared that Tea Party lawmakers are no longer a fringe of the conservative coalition, but now "indisputably at the core of the modern Republican Party."[328]


Governor Gary Johnson, 2012 and 2016 Libertarian Party presidential candidate
In 2012, anti-war presidential candidates (Libertarian Republican Ron Paul and Libertarian Party candidate Gary Johnson) raised millions of dollars and garnered millions of votes despite opposition to their obtaining ballot access by Democrats and Republicans.[329] The 2012 Libertarian National Convention, which saw Gary Johnson and James P. Gray nominated as the 2012 presidential ticket for the Libertarian Party, resulted in the most successful result for a third-party presidential candidacy since 2000, and the best in the Libertarian Party's history by vote number. Johnson received 1% of the popular vote, amounting to more than 1.2 million votes.[330][331] Johnson has expressed a desire to win at least 5 percent of the vote so that the Libertarian Party candidates could get equal ballot access and federal funding, thus subsequently ending the two-party system.[332][333][334]

Libertarianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




you really need more people.

Dear God...What does this prove...other than your inability to understand wikipedia...where in there is the proof??


ive run out of time...Since you CANT seem to do the right thing and admit you were either WRONG or ILL INFORMED about the Koch brothers funding the both the Tea and Libertarian party imma cut this short and let the Kochs them speak for themselves

Koch denies donations to libertarian candidate

Billionaire industrialist David Koch has denied through a spokesman that he has pledged “tens of millions” of dollars to support the presidential campaign of libertarian Gary Johnson.

“Reports that we are supporting or considering supporting any third party presidential candidate are false,” Philip Ellender, president and COO of public affairs at Koch Companies Public Sector, said in a statement provided to The Hill.

Ergo you were wrong..

 

[badhat]

Argument from fallacy is the formal fallacy of analyzing an argument and inferring that, since it contains a fallacy, its conclusion must be false.[1] It is also called argument to logic (argumentum ad logicam),hodj fallacy, fallacy fallacy,[2] fallacist's fallacy,[3] and bad reasons fallacy.[4]

Now that we've gotten that taken care of, what I'm saying is that:

P1: Libertarianism as it is practiced in the United States is nominally focused on smaller government, gay rights, and a decreased military footprint, among other stances.

P2: The Koch Brothers, as a political entity, have been focused on smaller government, along with declared positions for gay rights and a decreased military footprint.

C: The Koch Brothers, are prima facie Libertarians, until more compelling arguments are presented otherwise.

That was a line of inductive reasoning, with all that entails. It's not guilt by association, since I wasn't making any sort of normative claim. You're free to assume I have feelings on Libertarians and the Koch Brothers, but they didn't actually make a reference in my statements above.

 

[Ghost_In_A_Shell]

I disagree ...the original premise was lotuseater saying that the Tea party was the same as the libertarian Party and funded by the same people..

i asked for proof of that (which i still await)

then you post about the Cato institute ....even though the libertarian party PRE DATES the Cato institute by roughly 10 years...I dont even know why you thought that was relevant.. oh wait because they share the same ideological stance? thats still not proof of common funding.

The political activities of the Koch brothers include the financial and political influence of Charles G. and David H. Koch on United States politics. This influence is seen both directly and indirectly via various political and public policy organizations supported by the Koch brothers.[1][2][3]

The Koch brothers are the sons of Fred C. Koch, who founded Koch Industries, the second-largest privately held company in the United States, of which they own 84%.[4] Having bought out two other brothers' interests, they remain in control of the family business, the fortune which they inherited from their father, and the Koch family foundations.

The brothers have made significant financial contributions to libertarian and conservative think tanks and campaigns. They actively fund and support organizations that contribute significantly to Republican candidates, and that lobby against efforts to expand government's role in health care and combat global warming.[5] By 2010, they had donated more than $100 million to dozens of free-market and advocacy organizations.[5]

 

[Ghost_In_A_Shell]

Dear God...What does this prove...other than your inability to understand wikipedia...where in there is the proof??


ive run out of time...Since you CANT seem to do the right thing and admit you were either WRONG or ILL INFORMED about the Koch brothers funding the both the Tea and Libertarian party imma cut this short and let the Kochs them speak for themselves

Koch denies donations to libertarian candidate


Ergo you were wrong..

address it. read it.

 

[ⒶⓁⒾⒶⓈ]

The political activities of the Koch brothers include the financial and political influence of Charles G. and David H. Koch on United States politics. This influence is seen both directly and indirectly via various political and public policy organizations supported by the Koch brothers.[1][2][3]

The Koch brothers are the sons of Fred C. Koch, who founded Koch Industries, the second-largest privately held company in the United States, of which they own 84%.[4] Having bought out two other brothers' interests, they remain in control of the family business, the fortune which they inherited from their father, and the Koch family foundations.

The brothers have made significant financial contributions to libertarian and conservative think tanks and campaigns. They actively fund and support organizations that contribute significantly to Republican candidates, and that lobby against efforts to expand government's role in health care and combat global warming.[5] By 2010, they had donated more than $100 million to dozens of free-market and advocacy organizations.[5]

Hillary Rejects Koch Support -- So Why's She Taking Their Lobbyist Money?

The Kochs are moving to get behind Hillary..by your logic Hillary must be a libertarian too

our first "libertarian" female president


right?

 

[Ghost_In_A_Shell]

Hillary Rejects Koch Support -- So Why's She Taking Their Lobbyist Money?

The Kochs are moving to get behind Hillary..by your logic Hillary must be a libertarian too

our first "libertarian" female president


right?

Don't you move goal post, now! Better yet ,how would you describe the current political libertarianism that is practiced in the united states? and who funds thier think tanks and institutions? I will wait. also,its known on here that hrc is a neo-conservative/neo lib.

 

[ⒶⓁⒾⒶⓈ]

Now that we've gotten that taken care of, what I'm saying is that:

P1: Libertarianism as it is practiced in the United States is nominally focused on smaller government, gay rights, and a decreased military footprint, among other stances.

P2: The Koch Brothers, as a political entity, have been focused on smaller government, along with declared positions for gay rights and a decreased military footprint.

C: The Koch Brothers, are prima facie Libertarians, until more compelling arguments are presented otherwise.

That was a line of inductive reasoning, with all that entails. It's not guilt by association, since I wasn't making any sort of normative claim. You're free to assume I have feelings on Libertarians and the Koch Brothers, but they didn't actually make a reference in my statements above.

And therein you made common error in deductive reasoning is affirming the consequent: asserting a conditional and its consequent and concluding that the antecedent must be true.
We know the Kochs are self described libertarians(though being against gay rights is contrary to individual freedom...i hope you noticed that as well but ill go with that claim lest i be accused of the no true scotsman)
We know they fund libertarian causes
Does that mean they fund the libertarian party?

I just wanted proof of that claim as a potential Johnson voter it would be perturbing to say the least if my interests aligned with the oligarchs.

 

[Ghost_In_A_Shell]

And therein you made common error in deductive reasoning is affirming the consequent: asserting a conditional and its consequent and concluding that the antecedent must be true.
We know the Kochs are self described libertarians(though being against gay rights is contrary to individual freedom...i hope you notced that as well lest i be accused of the no true scotsman)
We know they fund libertarian causes
Does that mean they fund the libertarian party?

I just wanted proof of that claim as a potential Johnson voter it would be perturbing to say the least if my interests aligned with the oligarchs.

don't play stupid. thier has been proof posted numerously in this argument that they fund US libertaranism agendas. most of the major money comes form them. but you know this already.

 

[ⒶⓁⒾⒶⓈ]

don't play stupid. thier has been proof posted numerously in this argument that they fund US libertaranism agendas. most of the major money comes form them. but you know this already.

I wouldnt dream of it...Theres no way i could hope to beat you at it given your clearly superior skill and natural aptitude .

 

[badhat]

And therein you made common error in deductive reasoning is affirming the consequent: asserting a conditional and its consequent and concluding that the antecedent must be true.
We know the Kochs are self described libertarians(though being against gay rights is contrary to individual freedom...i hope you notced that as well lest i be accused of the no true scotsman)
We know they fund libertarian causes
Does that mean they fund the libertarian party?

I just wanted proof of that claim as a potential Johnson voter it would be perturbing to say the least if my interests aligned with the oligarchs.

…except I didn't make an error in deductive reasoning, since I was clearly using inductive. If you want this discussion to happen within the framework of a sound and complete proof system within predicate logic, I don't know what to tell you.

But that's a boring and semantic argument, and I'd rather be moving on from that, so explain to me as a potential Johnson voter what turns you off about your interests aligning with the Kochs.

They're undoubtedly intelligent enough. Probably more "deserving" of their wealth than someone like Trump. What makes them different from a version of you that would want to be that wealthy (not a terrible desire, all told)?