Why can't the villain win?

[winb83]

I mean honestly most of these writers out here don't have the balls to write a piece of mainstream media work where the villain outright wins. not like some moral victory or a half win but a full blown they accomplished their plan and lived happily ever after while the protagonist or heroes lost.

honestly i wanna see this taboo broken but then it'll probably become as cliche as the bittersweet ending where the protagonist dies.

i know a story where the villain outright wins will piss off the audience but this needs to start happening. especially in this new era of villain protagonist.

 

[kash10003]

are you talking about breaking bad or what b, cuz i dont think the case would apply to that show

 

[bl2k8]

Spoiler

Mackey got off without real jail time

 

[Silkk]

Marlo walked....

 

[winb83]

are you talking about breaking bad or what b, cuz i dont think the case would apply to that show

i'm talking about movies, tv shows, video games and whatnot in general. mainstream media. why can't a story end where the villain perfectly achieves their goals with no flaws and the heroes lose outright? i mean where there's a clearly defined good and bad side. its like these writers can't handle the tension of not forcing a loss on the bad guys.

its like the good guys can win outright and its ok but if a villain wins there's almost always some soft of trade off or spin has to be applied to let them win.

even in Breaking Bad

Spoiler

why couldn't Walt have his family and live out his final days in peace after crushing all his enemies? you always see these movies and shows where the good guy's family is taken and at the end he saves them against all sorts of irrational odds and they all live happily ever after. its like yeah Walt can win but it has to be a conditional victory where he pays a price. he can't just be the sack of shyt he was and get away with it all in the end getting all the victor's spoils.

 

[kash10003]

Walt won like crazy for 5 seasons, b

 

[winb83]

Marlo walked....

yeah he walked but he lost his empire and all meaning in his life. he didn't even know what to do with himself at the end. why couldn't he keep his empire and get away with it all? almost anytime a villain wins its a conditional victory but the heroes can get that unconditional victory.

 

[ML29]

Marlo walked....

and he got to keep his money

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

Christian principals of western societies...god vs the devil...good vs evil...hope vs despair. I also think its been proven multiple times that audiences respond poorly to villains winning

 

[The Guru]

The bad guy winning would remind us of the injustices we can't defeat in our own lives.

 

[GoddamnyamanProf]

i'm talking about movies, tv shows, video games and whatnot in general. mainstream media. why can't a story end where the villain perfectly achieves their goals with no flaws and the heroes lose outright? i mean where there's a clearly defined good and bad side. its like these writers can't handle the tension of not forcing a loss on the bad guys.

its like the good guys can win outright and its ok but if a villain wins there's almost always some soft of trade off or spin has to be applied to let them win.

even in Breaking Bad

Spoiler

why couldn't Walt have his family and live out his final days in peace after crushing all his enemies? you always see these movies and shows where the good guy's family is taken and at the end he saves them against all sorts of irrational odds and they all live happily ever after. its like yeah Walt can win but it has to be a conditional victory where he pays a price. he can't just be the sack of shyt he was and get away with it all in the end getting all the victor's spoils.

That was the original ending in season 4

Anyway, theres tons of movies where the bad guy wins. Nothing special.

 

[Dank Hill]

Yeah that Dr. Doom movie need to be made

 

[winb83]

Christian principals of western societies...god vs the devil...good vs evil...hope vs despair. I also think its been proven multiple times that audiences respond poorly to villains winning

look at some of the protagonist we're getting now though. we're getting to the point where a protagonist of a story might actually be considered the villain and the story told from the villain's perspective but even so that rule follows them where the villain can't win. some stupid deus ex machina has to undo them and even if some of their goals are realized like i said there's usually a price, and a heavy one at that, to be paid for it. when you start talking about their victories the word but always comes into play. like Walter White won but he... or Marlo won but he..

watch a movie like Taken or Taken 2 and the good guy wins unconditionally. even when such a victory happening would be unrealistic. i mean it gets to the point where you can see the plot shield keeping characters alive so the good guy can save them in situations any villain with half a mind would kill said characters.

 

[My Girl is Bow Legged]

I remember listening to the commentary for Seven and they had to fight tooth and nail with the studio to get the head in a box and brad losing ending...they even drew up some alternate storyboard where morgan freeman kills kevin spacey and brad threatened to walk away from the entire project unless they shot the original ending

Anyway the answer is simple...mainstream movies are made to make money and the general public does not wanna walk out a theater depressed

 

[Bud Bundy]

I mean honestly most of these writers out here don't have the balls to write a piece of mainstream media work where the villain outright wins. not like some moral victory or a half win but a full blown they accomplished their plan and lived happily ever after while the protagonist or heroes lost.

honestly i wanna see this taboo broken but then it'll probably become as cliche as the bittersweet ending where the protagonist dies.

i know a story where the villain outright wins will piss off the audience but this needs to start happening. especially in this new era of villain protagonist.

would you really watch a show where an antagonist you despise always comes out on top?
If it is a villain you like then they are not truly a villain are they.