Why Do Nas and Jay Get a Pass, But Eminem Doesn't ...

SunZoo

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:ehh: a hip hop head on a hip hop forum centering the argument around proper english and arguing it's ramifications. :yeshrug:

well...get it how you live...i guess....:manny:

if you must know i was born in brownsville and raised in bed stuy. :banderas:


I posted this back in October sometime. This is my entire argument:


The Jimmy Iovine effect is enough to sell whichever artist they want to the masses....Em', 50, Kendrick all come from the Interscope/Aftermath factory. They are products of millions invested in marketing, branding and advertising. This is not to say they don't have skill, but we all know sales and skill are entirely two different arenas in the industry. Jimmy Iovine literally makes stars just like all the other industry big wigs. You think any of this shyt is by chance would be really fukking stupid and naive. Artists are nothing more than investments to these people. They put money in and get money out. They put a team around you that understands psychology, social engineering and they build a very strategic, detailed and surefire way to sell you. Eminem is the greatest product that the Hip Hop industry has ever assembled. Marshall Mathers was a marketer's dream. Nobody looked back and noticed how TRL launched the same time Eminem did and it was basically HIS show (along with N'Sync, Backstree, Britney and all the other POP acts?) He wasn't Hip Hop from the jump. He wasn't being played on the hip hop stations ever. He was played on popular music stations and TRL. His fans were young, white, teenage rebelious ripe consumers. They needed an idol. They needed to totally capture the white pop generation that the Beastie Boys couldn't fully do in the late 80's. But around the mid and late 90's' Hip Hop slowly began creeping in places it wasn't supposed to. Heather and Conner were becoming interested in Wu Tang more than Metallica....not all, but enough for industry heads to know that black artists influencing their perfect lily white generation might be problematic when it comes to who's asserting and influences power in the next generation. The perfect solution is an artists who looks like them, shares the same angst and rage filled thoughts as them and actually can rap! wow....what a concept. let's go find him! hurry! "

yea yea yea...we'll get him to sell millions, don't worry about it....yea yea yea...they'll be all over him....don't worry we've got a team putting that all together now....his story's gonna be great....but DEFINITELY make sure he's aggressive, violent and super disrespectful.....our rates of white superiority complexes are dropping all over America....we can't have them thinking we're all equal " :demonic:


Marshall Mathers is a product. He was a battle rapper that was perfect for the role they wanted him to fill and he got it. He won the rapper lottery....probably the biggest one ever. Can her rap? Sure he can rap his rappity fukking raps. He can craft rhymes together well....but trust and beleive it wasn't easy for him to sell because he was white. He was designed and destined to sell millions of records because he was the product they built him to be. They presented him in on a platform they knew would make him the most accessible. I was in 6th grade when "My Name Is dropped" and I remember being like "oh shyt, a white boy who raps" :ehh: but the white kids saw their new demi-god and gateway drug into the world of hip hop....all of a sudden now he's the GOAT?

"This comes off more as "i'm angry about sales inflation" more than anything."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Again, nobody in this thread at least is being naive about the conditions of his success, yet none of this works without his ability to resonate. None of the suits wrote anything for him, hell his first album was damn near done before he was signed, the most they did was give him a dead line for his/their version of "the single" which wouldn't have gone over well with your typical baller/ladies man jams to get his foot in the door. Is he to be penalized for being marketed well?? Of course the inflation should be put into proper perspective but that's not what were talking about in the previous post.

What other rapper, white or otherwise should/COULD have taken his place and gotten similar results?
 
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theflyest

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I think Eminem's music is awful. His music is more catered to white people so you really can't expect niiggas to get into like that.

I've always enjoyed listening to Eminem freestyling & rapping over instrumentals. If you just gave Eminem a beat & just told him to rap, with no hook, no concepts, etc maybe I could get into him
 

2manyFCKNrappers

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@SunZoo

Okay, zone in on this part specifically

Nobody looked back and noticed how TRL launched the same time Eminem did and it was basically HIS show (along with N'Sync, Backstreet, Britney and all the other POP acts?) He wasn't Hip Hop from the jump. He wasn't being played on the hip hop stations ever. He was played on popular music stations and TRL. His fans were young, white, teenage rebelious ripe consumers. They needed an idol. They needed to totally capture the white pop generation that the Beastie Boys couldn't fully do in the late 80's. But around the mid and late 90's' Hip Hop slowly began creeping in places it wasn't supposed to. Heather and Conner were becoming interested in Wu Tang more than Metallica....not all, but enough for industry heads to know that black artists influencing their perfect lily white generation might be problematic when it comes to who's asserting and influences power in the next generation. The perfect solution is an artists who looks like them, shares the same angst and rage filled thoughts as them and actually can rap! wow....what a concept. let's go find him! hurry! "

yea yea yea...we'll get him to sell millions, don't worry about it....yea yea yea...they'll be all over him....don't worry we've got a team putting that all together now....his story's gonna be great....but DEFINITELY make sure he's aggressive, violent and super disrespectful.....our rates of white superiority complexes are dropping all over America....we can't have them thinking we're all equal "

Then ask yourself again about who he was designed to resonate to and why? He doesn't deserve a spot because anybody who truly loves the culture knows that he was placed there on purpose to pirate it and whitewash it. He's no different from Elvis, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones or anyone else that stole a organically black artform, became America's posterchild for it and profited head and shoulders above the originators. How can you not see he was a modern day trojan horse? I never said he couldn't rap or convey emotion. I'm asking a so-called lover of Hip Hop to look deeper into why he was chosen at the time he was. I've been wondering and asking myself for years how nikkas can love Hip Hop and Em. Of course cacs are gonna love him because now they have another entry point into our world. And i'm not a racist at all, but I do recognize that historically after the diaspora of black people was completed, music was the only organic connection to our heritage. Hip Hop is the child of Blues, Jazz and Rock and Roll, all of which have had tremendous face lifts and have been assigned POP/Rock legends that don't include the architects UNLESS we scream loud enough for them to hear it.

Nobody is denying Eminem's skills, but failure to recognize something his simple, yet masterfully planned impact on the culture (that's if you really believe that it is in fact a culture that deserves real respect) in the context of his true purpose is ass backwards and those people do not love Hip Hop and do not respect the culture. He's already here, but that doesn't mean I will ever turn a blind eye to the symbolic thievery he represents. Oh, but it's just Hip Hop. It's just a white guy who raps about raping his mother and killing his childs mother, being catuplted to heights even higher than 2Pac Shakur only 2 years after his death (who made it a point to uplift and support the people that the culture was made for)

It's only coincidence after two of the most iconic rappers of the time are both dead and 20 years after the existence of Hip Hop that Marshall Mathers shows up and takes the reigns and rides the Hip Hop Stallion into White America to be shown how vile it really is.....yet makes more millions to himself in a year than the entire Wu Tang Clan could split between them over 6 years? Isn't it crazy how one minute he can stir up controversy and simultaneously build an angst ridden fan base by bashing homosexuals and months later perform a "groundbreaking" "game changing" performance with one of the most successful POP ICONS (who also happens to be gay) on the biggest music awards show there is....and win? Oh yea, then make more money from both sides. (Who said Macklemore was the first to capture the gay audience?)

Like I said....Eminem is a PRODUCT and without even being a fan or paying him much mind over the past decade or so, it's been so easy to see the game being played on us once again. But We Love Eminem.....like We Love The Beatles and Rolling Stones or The Ramones and rock their "iconic" "cult classic" t-shirts and use knowledge of their discographies as intellectual leverage to prove we're "eclectic."

But they won't clear our samples or will charge the cost of the entire project for it. Bu-bu-bu- they just borrowed it. They just had perfect timing....

They always do.....and who can be mad at someone for borrowing....you'd look like a complete a$$hole if you got mad someone happened to be in the right place at the right time....

In our everyday life if someone borrows $20 or $100 maybe even a G....or a t-shirt it may or may not be enough to get you upset. If your nikka just happened to be at the same party of a chick you lowkey wanted you may or may not get mad at that. But we as individuals are not a culture, we are just participants. This is random shyt that happens on the daily.

But what if you realized after just going through it 30 years prior that your last bit of cultural identity was being stolen? The last scrap that we could use to identify and recognize ourselves was sneakily being stripped away by powers beyond your control? What if it wasn't just breakdancing or graffiti, or cyphering....what if it was apart of your heritage that a few people in the Bronx managed to save....by accident....or destiny even. What if it was for your soul and it really could save lives or bring awareness for real change. What if it was being taken away, rebranded, diluted and sold to people it wasn't designed to pull up? If it was just being given to these people solely "for fun" and mere "entertainment"? Then on top of that you rename the heroes and gods....change the chants and switch the message to the point that the people don't even recognize it or remember what it's for?

It's always been deeper than rap and deeper than music for black people. Why do you think we have the gift of doing it so damn well.....and why do you think every era and with every genre we birth they find a way to keep us from the true wealth (financially and more) it produces? I can't stand to hear a nikka say He Loves Hip Hop and Eminem. They don't know what they're really saying. I could've took your argument for the basic face value that most people come from, but I hope everybody who reads this can start to see the cacs have been raping, pillaging and stealing from everyone and will turn right around after the fact and have the nerve to ask you what's wrong and what did they do? It certainly didn't stop with hip hop....and their great white hope Marshall Mathers ain't doing shyt but keeping up tradition.
 

2manyFCKNrappers

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"Little hellions, kids feeling rebellious
Embarrassed their parents still listen to Elvis

They start feeling like prisoners helpless
Til someone comes along on a mission and yells bytch!!!" :lupe:


what mission marshall....do tell....
......A visionary, vision is scary
Could start a revolution, polluting the airwaves
A rebel, so just let me revel and bask
In the fact that I got everyone kissing my ass {smak}

And it's a disaster, such a catastrophe
For you to see so damn much of my ass; you asked for me?



Oh.

bu-bu-bu I would never let no cac disrespect me :mjpls:



I am the worst thing since Elvis Presley
To do black music so selfishly
And used it to get myself wealthy

(Hey!!) There's a concept that works

Twenty million other white rappers emerge
But no matter how many fish in the sea
It'll be so empty without me


and you thought he only renegaded Hov'

:dwillhuh:

Bu-bu-but Hip Hop is for everybody.....

Never has there been such finesse and nostalgia
Man Cash, I don't mean to mess with your gal but
Jessica Alba put her breasts on my mouth (blup!)

Wowzers! I just made a mess in my trousers
And they wonder why I keep dressing like Elvis


:skip: He sure mentions Elvis....alot




And to wrap this up i'm not a religious person...but I often hear black Christians say/complain how can the church get away with plastering a cac jesus everywhere when their own book they worship and follow states he clearly had hair like wool and skin like brass yet they still praise Asher Roth in a toga and sandals and never dare to bring it up during service.

Well Em' just dropped and everybody is eating this shyt up. But if i recall a God is the first, the creator, the originator, the grand architect....

If Eminem is being hailed as Rap God in the information age, and it seems that Macklemore is being positioned as his only begotten son, when it comes time to really tell the story, who's going to have the power and influence to shape history again?

Oh....but Hip Hop is dead....:ahh:
































but netting billions in profits every year since Nas told you it was..
:ohhh:










But Ghost is about to do Couples Therapy for peanuts to entertain the hipster cacs and the ratchets.

Stevie J is immortalized as :steviej:but nobody but a few will ever know how many tracks he :blessed: and what a genius he really is


They're putting all the gawds on reality TV shows for scraps to erase their true legacy to the masses and replace it with fukkery for ratings.

Meanwhile AMA's best Hip Hop album and artist is
Macklemore-21277565-1-402.jpg


MMLP is the best selling Hip Hop album of all time

Eminem-GIFs-eminem-26449482-500-281.gif



This cac they trying to find his perfect angle and timing so you can't "hate"
riff-raff-grammy-2013-640.jpg

where's your album? out of all the established hip hop artists he makes it to the Grammy's as a representative of Hip Hop? :usure:

Before you go....let's not forget who's trying to take the R&B lane
justin-bieber-gold-grill-fill-in-the-blank__oPt.jpg
ariana-grande-press-650-430.jpg



she ain't worried bout' nuthin'
130619-miley-cyrus.jpg


he ain't either :mjpls:

kate-jay.jpg


how long before he's back in the bronx tho?

miley-french-montana-aint-worried-bout-nothin-download.png


bu-bu-bu- :whoa:



It's only entertainment.:huhldup:


























:mjpls:
 
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blackslash

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it all started cuz you called eminem a cac. :dahell:
did u forget
and cuz you breeded a new word.

my point was obvious.

i think u have adhd worse then i do. and i think u would call a pale cuban a cac if u seen one. :childplease:
and i knew many in brooklyn. costa ricans too who were pale as fukk.
not every one white is a crakker ass crakker (CAC)
ya not everyone that looks pale is a cac





But eminem is :mjpls:

I'll requote myself to emphasize the importance of giving proper insight to this eminem phenomenon

why u taggin me in this thread fakkit

U stan a cac rapper who's fanbase consists solely of 14 year old rebellious cacs who seek an ooutlet for their "misunderstood teenage soul"

U stan a rapper that metalhead fakkits can relate to

U listen to a rapper who sings horribly over tracks about white boy struggles only schizophrenic fakkits can cry to

U stan a rapper who raps about killing his wife and babymoms and is soo much of an emotional fakkit that because one black woman broke his fragile lil heart he was soo angry he decided to create a racist ass song against all black women


Fck u think u is taggin me in sht :stopitslime:

U aint worthy to even type the letters of my name fakkit :rudy:


be gone from me :camby:
 

blackslash

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"Little hellions, kids feeling rebellious
Embarrassed their parents still listen to Elvis

They start feeling like prisoners helpless
Til someone comes along on a mission and yells bytch!!!" :lupe:

......A visionary, vision is scary
Could start a revolution, polluting the airwaves
A rebel, so just let me revel and bask
In the fact that I got everyone kissing my ass {smak}

And it's a disaster, such a catastrophe
For you to see so damn much of my ass; you asked for me?


bu-bu-bu I would never let no cac disrespect me :mjpls:



I am the worst thing since Elvis Presley
To do black music so selfishly
And used it to get myself wealthy

(Hey!!) There's a concept that works

Twenty million other white rappers emerge
But no matter how many fish in the sea
It'll be so empty without me


:dwillhuh:

Bu-bu-but Hip Hop is for everybody.....

Never has there been such finesse and nostalgia
Man Cash, I don't mean to mess with your gal but
Jessica Alba put her breasts on my mouth (blup!)

Wowzers! I just made a mess in my trousers
And they wonder why I keep dressing like Elvis


:skip: He sure mentions Elvis....alot




And to wrap this up i'm not a religious person...but I often hear black Christians say/complain how can the church get away with plastering a cac jesus everywhere when their own book they worship and follow states he clearly had hair like wool and skin like brass yet they still praise Asher Roth in a toga and sandals and never dare to bring it up during service.

Well Em' just dropped and everybody is eating this shyt up. But if i recall a God is the first, the creator, the originator, the grand architect....

If Eminem is being hailed as Rap God in the information age, and it seems that Macklemore is being positioned as his only begotten son, when it comes time to really tell the story, who's going to have the power and influence to shape history again?

Oh....but Hip Hop is dead....:ahh:
































but netting billions in profits every year since Nas told you it was..



bu-bu-bu- :whoa:



It's only entertainment.:huhldup:


























:mjpls:

:damn:

U cut from a different cloth than these fukk nikkaz :wow:
 

intilectual recipricol

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nikkaz mad i see...

Im not even a cacinem stan, but nikkaz writin books about why the nikka sells :scusthov: We all know why he sells, that dont mean he cant write the hell out of some shyt. it seems nikkaz mad because you feel cacinem is on top. I dont see him as on top so Im not even mad at the sales. But this is nikkaz fault though for stannin mark ass non rappin ass rappers. No Im not talkin about nikkaz NOT trying to be lyrical, I'm talkin about nikkaz who think they are but have some of the worst rhymes ever heard in rap... when these cacs see what em is doing compared to "hand me a 9 and I'll defeat foes" :ahh: and they see a large group of dumbass nikkaz sayin that nikka is the GOAT how can they not feel like Em aint the GOAT?

If nikkaz would support actual skill this wouldnt have happened... if you wanna get away from this shyt you got stan actual true wordsmiths... nikkaz that put as much thought into their shyt... "monkey rhythm flippin rappers" aint it maynes.

As for the "Rap God" shyt :bryan: you takin this shyt way too serious, that shyt dont got nothin to do with creatin shyt... if anything it supports the myth idea :mjpls:

buy Tetsuo & Youth
 

Prae

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But this is nikkaz fault though for stannin mark ass non rappin ass rappers. No Im not talkin about nikkaz NOT trying to be lyrical, I'm talkin about nikkaz who think they are but have some of the worst rhymes ever heard in rap... when these cacs see what em is doing compared to "hand me a 9 and I'll defeat foes" :ahh: and they see a large group of dumbass nikkaz sayin that nikka is the GOAT how can they not feel like Em aint the GOAT?

If nikkaz would support actual skill this wouldnt have happened... if you wanna get away from this shyt you got stan actual true wordsmiths... nikkaz that put as much thought into their shyt... "monkey rhythm flippin rappers" aint it maynes.

How are you going to give Em a pass for all the shyt lines he spits? While putting a microscope on all of Nas'?

One thing I can say about Eminem, he is easily a better writer than naS. Even if he purposely uses it to be corny sometimes. He is very deliberate in his word placement which is a large part of being a great writer. naS haphazardly throws nonsensical shyt together and thinks that it is dope.

So I'm at an impasse, is it worse to be extremely deliberate and purposely corny or worse to be unknowingly corny but think that its dope?

That's just not true. I don't agree that he deliberately uses corny ass lines. Because when he makes an entire song/verse that has serious content, but has 1 line with some retarded shyt, it comes off as more of a blunder than anything.

Dumb lines that don't make sense/don't work in otherwise serious verses/songs:

- Great verse at the end of Bad Guy, kind of summing up his career past present and future - but he throws in the dumb line Toilets clogged, yeah cause I’m talking a lot of shyt but I’m backing it all up

- Another serious song in Legacy, talking about him struggling growing up as a kid, but puts this dumbass line in it Suck a dikk,the day you beat me, pigs'll fly out my ass in a flying saucer full of Italian sausage

- So Much Better - this shyt just makes very little sense
You make my fukking blue tooth ache
You're feeling blue? Too late
Go smurf yourself,you make me wanna smurf and puke blue Kool Aid

- this line is shyt, and it's definitely not that way deliberately - it's like you grew up on Jump Street, from jump street

- These punchlines are just retarded. And you know when he made them/put them in he thought they were good
But if I can't batter the women, how the fukk am I supposed to bake them a cake then?
Don't mistake him for Satan
It's a fatal mistake if you think I need to be overseas and take a vacation
To trip abroad
and make her fall on her face and
Don't be a retard,
be a king? Think not
Why be a king when you can be a god?


And let's not get into all the corny punchlines on Recovery that were thrown into more serious songs. He wasn't being deliberately corny there, he just failed at making good punchlines.
 
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intilectual recipricol

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How are you going to give Em a pass for all the shyt lines he spits? While putting a microscope on all of Nas'?



That's just not true. I don't agree that he deliberately uses corny ass lines. Because when he makes an entire song/verse that has serious content, but has 1 line with some retarded shyt, it comes off as more of a blunder than anything.

Dumb lines that don't make sense/don't work in otherwise serious verses/songs:

- Great verse at the end of Bad Guy, kind of summing up his career past present and future - but he throws in the dumb line Toilets clogged, yeah cause I’m talking a lot of shyt but I’m backing it all up

- Another serious song in Legacy, talking about him struggling growing up as a kid, but puts this dumbass line in it Suck a dikk,the day you beat me, pigs'll fly out my ass in a flying saucer full of Italian sausage

- So Much Better - this shyt just makes very little sense
You make my fukking blue tooth ache
You're feeling blue? Too late
Go smurf yourself,you make me wanna smurf and puke blue Kool Aid

- this line is shyt, and it's definitely not that way deliberately - it's like you grew up on Jump Street, from jump street

- These punchlines are just retarded. And you know when he made them/put them in he thought they were good
But if I can't batter the women, how the fukk am I supposed to bake them a cake then?
Don't mistake him for Satan
It's a fatal mistake if you think I need to be overseas and take a vacation
To trip abroad
and make her fall on her face and
Don't be a retard,
be a king? Think not
Why be a king when you can be a god?


And let's not get into all the corny punchlines on Recovery that were thrown into more serious songs. He wasn't being deliberately corny there, he just failed at making good punchlines.
LOL nikkaz tryin to make it like I'm defendin cacinem... of course Em has corny shyt, thats what he does... but even in the examples you showed... in every one of em, he is using wordplay... a form of lyricism. So its still lyrically better than naS shyt. Even in your argument you are simply trying to bring Cacinem down instead of making a case for naS.

At any point I can find a segment of Em shyt that is at the very least exceptionally written and lyrical in some manner. Cant say the same for naS. But I can point out a bunch of dumbass shyt like "hand me a 9 and I'll defeat foes" and a bunch of nikkaz makin excuses for why a supposed top lyricist has a bunch of terrible bars (among the worst in rap) and absolutely none exceptional bars.

:manny:

If I'm wrong, point out some exceptional naS bars, cuz I havent seen even one
 

aRoMaN21

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:banderas:

the dedication......:wow:

your replies only strengthen my resolve for my arguments. it's amazing.....how it all works without anything even working.



the dedication is you in this thread writing us novels.


:heh:
 

aRoMaN21

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ya not everyone that looks pale is a cac





But eminem is :mjpls:

I'll requote myself to emphasize the importance of giving proper insight to this eminem phenomenon


Explain how he's a cac. and dont use his SKIN as an argument topic.
TRY IT. :smile:

and its funny cuz half the shyt he does and says is to piss off people that think like you about him being a cac. :heh:
the other half is to piss off people he wants attention from. :comeon:


like kim.
 

blackslash

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Explain how he's a cac. and dont use his SKIN as an argument topic.
TRY IT. :smile:

and its funny cuz half the shyt he does and says is to piss off people that think like you about him being a cac. :heh:
the other half is to piss off people he wants attention from. :comeon:


like kim.
da fck...da same reason that caclemore is a cac

oh u thought the cac label was based solely on behavior u deem identifies with race

Ohhh u thought cacinem acts "black" enough to not be a cac huh? :heh:

Eminem is a cac plain and simple...:manny: :umad:
 

Danie84

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Nas shouldn't even be compare with camel, let alone Slim Shady:camby:
 
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