Why Don't NBA rookies score like they used to?
- Thread starter PortCityProphet
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MustafaSTL
Achievement In Every Field of Human Endeavor
Thread title asks why players in general don't score like they used to. Seems like naming players in the first post was used as a few examples. Not that those players in particular were the only ones he was referring to. So my post is still the obvious answer.
It's not ALL about pace - but it certainly plays an important part - to say it has "nothing to do with it" is disingenuous given the fact that if all those players in the top 20 wouldn't be able to replicate the same PPG in today's game given the fewer possessions and better defenses (which basically go hand-in-hand).
Why wouldn't they? 21 year old rookie Jordan would still get his 38 minutes and 20 shots (if he went to a shytty team). Slower pace and fewer possessions have not stopped top players from getting their shots and their points (nobody has addressed this yet). It just so happens that these rookies today aren't equipped to be top players straight out the gate at 18 or 19. Spin it how you wish, but there is no way a rookie Shaq or Wilt comes out the gate avg. 14 points in this era or any other.
OG Talk
Archived
Because they shoot more 3's at a much higher percentage
It really has nothing to do with that.
The average player in today's NBA is just flat out better than the average player back in the 70's or 80's. Scoring as a WHOLE is down in comparison to that era and it's because it's harder to score now and the pace of the game is played far slower.
You transfer some of the modern-day rookie standouts like Damian Lillard, Blake Griffin, hell even Andrew Wiggins, back to that time period, playing in that retardedly fast up and down 130ppg pace and you think they don't average 20+ppg?
MJ averaged 28ppg his rookie year.I got all the respect in the world for that dude but, despite everything the 80's/90's stan will want to tell you, he could NOT do that in today's NBA. Pace of the game is far slower, players are much better. Tell me about all the amazing perimeter players (especially at the 2) of the 80's that were checking MJ.
Jordan avg'd 20ppg as a 40 year old, with 1 leg, in the modern era - dikhed
EDIT: He also scored 40 points a bunch of times and 50 points twice. Also throw in the 4, 5 dimes and 5, 6 rebounds per game. Again, as a 40 year old with one leg.
Coaches have a shorter leash
They wana win instead of developing talent
They wana win instead of developing talent
Maybe? I think the more-level physical competition is a bigger impact. But maybe you'd argue that coming into the league as a 21-22 year old made you more physically ready?
Jordan avg'd 20ppg as a 40 year old, with 1 leg, in the modern era - dikhed
EDIT: He also scored 40 points a bunch of times and 50 points twice. Also throw in the 4, 5 dimes and 5, 6 rebounds per game. Again, as a 40 year old with one leg.
He was 39 in his final season, and he did not score 50 that year.
He shot the ball 20 times a game, to average 20 points. He shot 44% from the floor, 29% from 3. He was doing Al Harrington numbers.
The modern era is the fastest, longest, biggest, strongest, moth athletic in the history of the sport.
Do not let 90's mythology distract you from reality. Jordan is the greatest, but the level of competition was lower then for guard and wing positions. Jordan was being guarded by John Starks and Craig Ehlo
Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
Didn't I just said pace/possessions wasn't the be-all and end-all?
It's a mixture of generational talent, pace/defense of competition and team role.
It's addressed by simple fact that defenses are better now and the pace is slower. It's not that hard to understand. If every single season in history was based around similar league averages (PPG, pace, defensive RTG etc etc) you wouldn't have this great margin of difference between rookie scorers.
Who said any different?
If the question is why aren't rookies scoring like some of the greatest athletes that have ever walked the earth anymore - then the answer is in the question.
Talent, physical readiness and in turn team role >>>>>>>>>. Pace and possessions impact the scoring numbers of role players way more than elite players. Elite guys are still getting their shots and points.
Throwing pace and defense out there as crutches for guys just flat out not being ready when they enter the league is saying different. Anthony Davis isn't one of the greatest athletes to walk the earth?
Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
Why does it feel like you're arguing something completely different to your OG statement that I quoted? Again, pace/possessions and defenses play a role in how much rookies score on a general scale for the simple fact of mathematical rule. Faster pace, more possessions, weaker defense = more opportunities for rookies to get points.
Throwing pace and defense out there as crutches for guys just flat out not being ready when they enter the league is saying different. Anthony Davis isn't one of the greatest athletes to walk the earth?
Where do you see me arguing this? I've already explained in detail why the difference pace and defense is attributed to the fall in overall rookie scoring.
If you're saying that AD is classified as one of those athletes - then the answer is in the question is it not? If you're looking past generational talent - then the answer lies in the difference of pace and defense.
triplehate
Superstar
A rookie averaging 25+ seems absurd
The hype he would get today
The hype he would get today
Why does it feel like you're arguing something completely different to your OG statement that I quoted? Again, pace/possessions and defenses play a role in how much rookies score on a general scale for the simple fact of mathematical rule. Faster pace, more possessions, weaker defense = more opportunities for rookies to get points.
Where do you see me arguing this? I've already explained in detail why the difference pace and defense is attributed to the fall in overall rookie scoring.
If you're saying that AD is classified as one of those athletes - then the answer is in the question is it not? If you're looking past generational talent - then the answer lies in the difference of pace and defense.
I been saying the same shyt breh
. You have not explained to me why top players of today still manage to put up comparable ppgs to top players in the past while generational rookies don't. Options 3-12 are getting fewer opportunities to get points, not 1-2 and if a rookie is joining a shytty squad (as most top rookies do) he's gonna be 1 or 2.So you telling me that it is pace and defense that has changed since AD has entered the league, not his physical and mental readiness?
He was 39 in his final season, and he did not score 50 that year.
He shot the ball 20 times a game, to average 20 points. He shot 44% from the floor, 29% from 3. He was doing Al Harrington numbers.
The modern era is the fastest, longest, biggest, strongest, moth athletic in the history of the sport.
Do not let 90's mythology distract you from reality. Jordan is the greatest, but the level of competition was lower then for guard and wing positions. Jordan was being guarded by John Starks and Craig Ehlo
First of all, he didn't shoot the ball 20 times a game, since you want to parse numbers (39, 40 years old), he shot the ball 18.6 times per game to average 20 ppg. In comparison, Kobe at 34 (5 years younger) took 20.4 shot per game to average 27.3 ppg at 46.3% - Did NBA players magically grow more athletic and longer, the year after Jordan left?
Jordan was able to do things that no man nearing 40 has done on an individual level in the NBA.
The same argument you're using against Jordan, narrow-minded individuals will use in the future against the contemporaries of today's stars.
10 best games from Jordan as a 40 year old:
Feb 23, 2003: Jordan scores 30 points on 14/26 shootings (slightly better than Kobe), 9 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 steals and a block shot, in a loss against Dallas (neither Starks nor Elho suited up that game). HE WAS 40 YEARS OLD.
March 26, 2003: Against Seattle Jordan 26 points, on 12/22 shooting, 10 rebounds, 4 assists, two steals and a block shot, resulting in a Wizards win (neither Starks nor Elho suited up that game). HE WAS 40 YEARS OLD.
March 7, 2003: Against Milwaukee 27 points, 11/24 from the field, 9 rebounds, three assist, two steals, he played 44 minutes - Stackhouse didn't play, Wizards lose (neither Starks nor Ehlo suited up the bucks that night). HE WAS 40 YEARS OLD.
April 3, 2003: Against Atlanta, Jordan played 44 minutes, scored 22 points on 10/23 shooting, grabbed 14 rebounds, dished 7 assists and also added two steals. Wizards lose. Stackhouse did not play and neither Starks or Ehlo suited up for Atlanta. HE WAS 40 YEARS OLD.
March 25, 2003: Against the Blazers, Jordan scored 25 points on 11/19 from the field, he also dished 7 assist with 5 rebounds he played 41 minutes - Wizards win. Neither Starks nor Ehlo suited up for the Blazers. HE WAS 40 YEARS OLD.
April 6, 2003: Against Paul Pierce's Celtics, Jordan scores 25 points, 13 rebounds, 7 assist and played 47 minutes. Neither Starks nor Ehlo suited up for the Celtics. HE WAS 40 YEARS OLD.
February 27, 2003: Against the Rockets, Jordan scores 35 points, grabs 11 rebounds and dishes 6 assists, resulting in a win for the Wizards. Neither Starks nor Ehlo suited up for the Rockets. HE WAS 40 YEARS OLD.
April 8, 2003: Against the Cavs, Jordan scored 26 points, grabbed 10 rebounds, dished three assist, with three steals and a block shot. Wizards win, neither Starks nor Ehlo suited up that night for the Cavs. HE WAS 40 YEARS OLD.
March 9, 2003: Against the Knicks, Jordan scores 39 points on 13/22 from the field, grabs 8 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 steal. Neither Ehlo nor Starks suited up for the Knicks. HE WAS 40 YEARS OLD.
February 21, 2003: Against the Nets (who went to the NBA Finals that season), Jordan becomes the only player at age 40 to score 43 points --- in 43 minutes, 18/30 from the field, grabs 10 rebounds, 3 assist, 4 steals and a block shot - resulting in a win for the Wizards. Neither Ehlo nor Starks suited up for the Nets that night. HE WAS 40 YEARS OLD.
This was in 2003, are you meaning to tell me that the day after Jordan retired the NBA suddenly metamorphasized into a dominantly athletic league with tall ass players? Of course players of today are better than players of yesteryear, that's the natural progression of evolution in sports.
You can only judge an athlete as to what they did against their contemporaries and the fact of the matter is, Jordan did a better job of separating himself from his contemporaries than most. 2003 was not 1963, so to suggest that a 27 year old Peak Jordan would NOT dominate in today's game is completely disingenuous.
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superunknown23
Superstar
nikka, don't you know that SuperSaiyans suddenly entered the league during the 1999 lockout?
