Why don't we have high speed rail ?

bnew

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Thinking about this I do really so a lot of abandoned train tracks when driving. I wonder how many we have across the country that could be refitted for a highspeed rail(not a train nor transportation expert obviously)


chatgpt:

You're correct that there are many abandoned or underused train tracks scattered across the United States, and with the push for more sustainable transportation options, repurposing some of these lines for high-speed rail (HSR) could be an interesting solution. While it's not as simple as just refitting old tracks, your question touches on several important factors when considering high-speed rail implementation.

1. Current Rail Infrastructure and the Possibility of Refitting for High-Speed Rail

Many abandoned or underutilized tracks are not in a state that would immediately accommodate high-speed rail. High-speed rail requires specific infrastructure standards, such as:

  • Track quality: The tracks need to be smooth and properly aligned to allow trains to reach and sustain speeds of 150-220 mph (240-355 km/h). Many older or abandoned lines, especially minor ones, might be too degraded, narrow, or outdated for these speeds. They would likely need significant upgrades to handle such high speeds safely.
  • Curvature and gradients: High-speed rail requires gentler curves and gradients compared to standard or freight lines. Many older tracks were designed for freight or conventional passenger trains, which don't require such strict standards. Sharp turns or steep inclines could make high-speed rail unsafe or inefficient.
  • Signal systems and electrical infrastructure: High-speed trains are often powered by electricity, and tracks would need to be equipped with modern signaling systems, electric overhead wires or electrified rails, and possibly advanced train control systems to ensure safety and efficiency.
  • Stations and facilities: High-speed rail stations would need to be built or upgraded to handle passengers at higher volumes and speeds. This includes appropriate platforms, waiting areas, and connections to other transportation modes (like buses, subways, or even airports).

2. Abandoned Tracks and Potential for Reuse

Some abandoned rail corridors are in better condition than others, making them more likely candidates for conversion into high-speed rail. These corridors might already pass through densely populated areas, or align with other transportation infrastructure, offering a more convenient base for building HSR lines. Examples include:

  • Freight corridors: These may already pass through large cities or economically important regions. Refitting existing tracks could save costs compared to building completely new routes, though these corridors may have frequent intersections or crossings that would need to be adjusted.
  • Right-of-way availability: Many abandoned lines still have their right-of-way intact, meaning that the land once designated for tracks is available and could be repurposed for new high-speed rail lines, especially in areas where urban sprawl has not overtaken them.
  • Historical rail corridors: Some old rail corridors connect major cities and could be ideal routes for high-speed rail. These lines often follow relatively flat or straight paths, which are good for high-speed operations.

3. Challenges to Converting Old Tracks to High-Speed Rail

  • Upgrading or building new lines: In many cases, it might be easier to build new high-speed rail lines from the ground up, rather than upgrading old tracks. This is particularly true in urbanized areas where land acquisition and environmental factors could pose challenges.
  • Public and political support: Getting local and state governments, and private investors, to support high-speed rail development can be difficult, especially given the cost of construction and the competition with other infrastructure priorities (such as roads, public transportation, or healthcare).
  • Speed requirements: If the current tracks have frequent curves, narrow clearances, or subpar foundations, upgrading them to meet high-speed standards may be impractical. In some cases, the cost and engineering challenges of upgrading old lines may outweigh the benefits.

4. Examples of High-Speed Rail Plans in the U.S.

While the U.S. currently doesn't have a national high-speed rail network like those in Europe or Japan, there are several high-speed rail projects in development, many of which involve creating entirely new rail corridors:

  • California High-Speed Rail: The most prominent U.S. high-speed rail project, aiming to connect the Bay Area with the Central Valley and Los Angeles. This project is planned to have trains reaching speeds of over 200 mph, and the new tracks are being built from scratch.
  • Texas Central Railway: A proposed bullet train between Dallas and Houston that would use the N700 Shinkansen technology from Japan. This project plans to build new tracks rather than refit old ones.
  • Northeast Corridor (NEC) Improvements: The existing Amtrak corridor between Boston, New York, Philadelphia, and Washington, D.C., is one of the busiest in the U.S. and could see improvements in speed and reliability in the future. While it's already a major passenger line, upgrading it for higher-speed operations is a potential long-term project.

5. Refitting Abandoned Tracks: Realistic or Not?

In theory, some abandoned lines could be refitted for high-speed rail, especially if they meet some of the criteria above, such as right-of-way availability and sufficient track alignment. However, the complexity of modern high-speed rail standards means that building new tracks or upgrading major existing lines is likely to be more cost-effective and feasible than revamping older, abandoned ones. Hybrid approaches could also be viable, such as building new high-speed lines for the long-haul portions of a route and upgrading existing infrastructure for regional or shorter segments.

Conclusion​

While there are certainly abandoned train tracks across the country that could potentially be used for high-speed rail, most of them would require extensive upgrades to meet the safety, speed, and infrastructure standards required for modern high-speed trains. It’s possible that some of these tracks could serve as part of a broader HSR network, but the conversion would involve significant investment and engineering challenges.

The future of high-speed rail in the U.S. may involve a combination of refitting existing tracks, building new dedicated lines, and strategic planning to optimize the rail network for both speed and capacity. This will depend on political, financial, and logistical factors, but there is definitely potential for a more connected, high-speed rail system in the U.S. in the coming decades.

ydXMQO3.png
 

Canada Goose

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TBH if the U.S had HSR nationwide, would the common American even be able to afford to ride on it? U.S has one HSR train.... the Acela between Boston and DC and the prices for tickets are as high as giraffe p*ssy :mjlol: Even NYC - Philly is expensive on Acela.
 

Geek Nasty

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Last night I was watching coverage of the reconstruction efforts in Western North Carolina after hurricane Helene. Same thing, all these rural white people crying about “why isn’t somebody doing anything???” when they’re the exact people who vote for less government and don’t buy insurance. They Want to complain about the government forcing them to buy insurance now look at them :mjlol:

Somewhere somehow along the line Americans got convinced that voting is a fukking game and doesn’t affect your real world life :sas1:
 

bnew

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TBH if the U.S had HSR nationwide, would the common American even be able to afford to ride on it? U.S has one HSR train.... the Acela between Boston and DC and the prices for tickets are as high as giraffe p*ssy :mjlol: Even NYC - Philly is expensive on Acela.


how come other countries are able to make it cheaper? shouldn't economies of scale especially with our larger population in some cases help?




Based on the search results and available information, here's a comparison of high-speed rail infrastructure in a dozen top countries, along with examples of routes approximately 80-91 miles (129-146 km) long and their associated fares where available:

## Top Countries with High-Speed Rail Infrastructure

1. China
2. Spain
3. Japan
4. France
5. Germany
6. Italy
7. Turkey
8. South Korea
9. United Kingdom
10. Taiwan
11. Morocco
12. Saudi Arabia

## Sample Routes and Fares

1. **China**: Beijing to Tianjin (117 km)
- Fare: ¥54-¥174 ($8-$25)

2. **Spain**: Madrid to Toledo (75 km)
- Fare: €10-€25 ($11-$27)

3. **Japan**: Tokyo to Atami (104 km)
- Fare: ¥3,670-¥5,170 ($25-$35)

4. **France**: Paris to Reims (144 km)
- Fare: €15-€45 ($16-$49)

5. **Germany**: Frankfurt to Mannheim (106 km)
- Fare: €19-€50 ($21-$54)

6. **Italy**: Rome to Florence (261 km, longer than requested range)
- Fare: €30-€70 ($33-$76)

7. **Turkey**: Ankara to Eskişehir (151 km, slightly longer)
- Fare: 70-120 TRY ($2-$4)

8. **South Korea**: Seoul to Cheonan (96 km)
- Fare: ₩15,000-₩23,000 ($11-$17)

9. **United Kingdom**: London to Brighton (87 km)
- Fare: £5-£30 ($6-$38)

10. **Taiwan**: Taipei to Hsinchu (72 km)
- Fare: NT$280-NT$450 ($9-$14)

11. **Morocco**: Tangier to Kenitra (200 km, longer than requested range)
- Fare: 99-149 MAD ($10-$15)

12. **Saudi Arabia**: Mecca to Jeddah (78 km)
- Fare: 40-60 SAR ($11-$16)

Please note that fares can vary based on factors such as class of service, time of booking, and promotions. The provided fares are approximate ranges and may not reflect current prices[1][3][4][6].

Citations:
[1] The Five Best High-Speed Rail Networks in the World | Smart Cities Dive
[2] https://www.downsizinggovernment.org/transportation/high-speed-rail
[3] Map shows which countries have high-speed rail
[4] Length of the high-speed rail network worldwide 2022, by country | Statista
[5] High-speed rail - Wikipedia
[6] List of high-speed railway lines - Wikipedia
 

BEN23

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chatgpt:

You're correct that there are many abandoned or underused train tracks scattered across the United States, and with the push for more sustainable transportation options, repurposing some of these lines for high-speed rail (HSR) could be an interesting solution. While it's not as simple as just refitting old tracks, your question touches on several important factors when considering high-speed rail implementation.

1. Current Rail Infrastructure and the Possibility of Refitting for High-Speed Rail

Many abandoned or underutilized tracks are not in a state that would immediately accommodate high-speed rail. High-speed rail requires specific infrastructure standards, such as:

  • Track quality: The tracks need to be smooth and properly aligned to allow trains to reach and sustain speeds of 150-220 mph (240-355 km/h). Many older or abandoned lines, especially minor ones, might be too degraded, narrow, or outdated for these speeds. They would likely need significant upgrades to handle such high speeds safely.
  • Curvature and gradients: High-speed rail requires gentler curves and gradients compared to standard or freight lines. Many older tracks were designed for freight or conventional passenger trains, which don't require such strict standards. Sharp turns or steep inclines could make high-speed rail unsafe or inefficient.
  • Signal systems and electrical infrastructure: High-speed trains are often powered by electricity, and tracks would need to be equipped with modern signaling systems, electric overhead wires or electrified rails, and possibly advanced train control systems to ensure safety and efficiency.
  • Stations and facilities: High-speed rail stations would need to be built or upgraded to handle passengers at higher volumes and speeds. This includes appropriate platforms, waiting areas, and connections to other transportation modes (like buses, subways, or even airports).

2. Abandoned Tracks and Potential for Reuse

Some abandoned rail corridors are in better condition than others, making them more likely candidates for conversion into high-speed rail. These corridors might already pass through densely populated areas, or align with other transportation infrastructure, offering a more convenient base for building HSR lines. Examples include:

  • Freight corridors: These may already pass through large cities or economically important regions. Refitting existing tracks could save costs compared to building completely new routes, though these corridors may have frequent intersections or crossings that would need to be adjusted.
  • Right-of-way availability: Many abandoned lines still have their right-of-way intact, meaning that the land once designated for tracks is available and could be repurposed for new high-speed rail lines, especially in areas where urban sprawl has not overtaken them.
  • Historical rail corridors: Some old rail corridors connect major cities and could be ideal routes for high-speed rail. These lines often follow relatively flat or straight paths, which are good for high-speed operations.

3. Challenges to Converting Old Tracks to High-Speed Rail

  • Upgrading or building new lines: In many cases, it might be easier to build new high-speed rail lines from the ground up, rather than upgrading old tracks. This is particularly true in urbanized areas where land acquisition and environmental factors could pose challenges.
  • Public and political support: Getting local and state governments, and private investors, to support high-speed rail development can be difficult, especially given the cost of construction and the competition with other infrastructure priorities (such as roads, public transportation, or healthcare).
  • Speed requirements: If the current tracks have frequent curves, narrow clearances, or subpar foundations, upgrading them to meet high-speed standards may be impractical. In some cases, the cost and engineering challenges of upgrading old lines may outweigh the benefits.

4. Examples of High-Speed Rail Plans in the U.S.

While the U.S. currently doesn't have a national high-speed rail network like those in Europe or Japan, there are several high-speed rail projects in development, many of which involve creating entirely new rail corridors:

  • California High-Speed Rail: The most prominent U.S. high-speed rail project, aiming to connect the Bay Area with the Central Valley and Los Angeles. This project is planned to have trains reaching speeds of over 200 mph, and the new tracks are being built from scratch.
  • Texas Central Railway: A proposed bullet train between Dallas and Houston that would use the N700 Shinkansen technology from Japan. This project plans to build new tracks rather than refit old ones.
  • Northeast Corridor (NEC) Improvements: The existing Amtrak corridor between Boston, New York, Philadelphia, and Washington, D.C., is one of the busiest in the U.S. and could see improvements in speed and reliability in the future. While it's already a major passenger line, upgrading it for higher-speed operations is a potential long-term project.

5. Refitting Abandoned Tracks: Realistic or Not?

In theory, some abandoned lines could be refitted for high-speed rail, especially if they meet some of the criteria above, such as right-of-way availability and sufficient track alignment. However, the complexity of modern high-speed rail standards means that building new tracks or upgrading major existing lines is likely to be more cost-effective and feasible than revamping older, abandoned ones. Hybrid approaches could also be viable, such as building new high-speed lines for the long-haul portions of a route and upgrading existing infrastructure for regional or shorter segments.

Conclusion​

While there are certainly abandoned train tracks across the country that could potentially be used for high-speed rail, most of them would require extensive upgrades to meet the safety, speed, and infrastructure standards required for modern high-speed trains. It’s possible that some of these tracks could serve as part of a broader HSR network, but the conversion would involve significant investment and engineering challenges.

The future of high-speed rail in the U.S. may involve a combination of refitting existing tracks, building new dedicated lines, and strategic planning to optimize the rail network for both speed and capacity. This will depend on political, financial, and logistical factors, but there is definitely potential for a more connected, high-speed rail system in the U.S. in the coming decades.

ydXMQO3.png
you use paid chat gpt?
 

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the cac mamba

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As of February 2024, the estimated cost of the California High-Speed Rail (HSR) project is between $89 billion and $128 billion. This cost includes allowances for future inflation. The project's total cost has increased significantly from its original estimate of $33 billion.

because Democrat politicians and unions do this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.
 

Seoul Gleou

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As of February 2024, the estimated cost of the California High-Speed Rail (HSR) project is between $89 billion and $128 billion. This cost includes allowances for future inflation. The project's total cost has increased significantly from its original estimate of $33 billion.

because Democrat politicians and unions do this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.
but you voted for them :gucci:
 

bnew

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As of February 2024, the estimated cost of the California High-Speed Rail (HSR) project is between $89 billion and $128 billion. This cost includes allowances for future inflation. The project's total cost has increased significantly from its original estimate of $33 billion.

because Democrat politicians and unions do this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.

do non-union workers build high-speed rail in other developed countries? why do you believe it's not feasible here?
 
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