Why Kobe Bryant was a greater scorer than LeBron James will ever be

[Jordan>>LeFrozen]

My bad forgot to quote u. Why are u sexually attracted to lebron?

 

[Goatpoacher]

Don't mean a thing he ain't win a ring against them either. Losing a 3-1 lead>>>>>Losing a finals after the decision, not one not 2, 45 against the Celtics all to choke and be called a p*ssy by everyone including casuals and have nikkas like @Goatpoacher Stan for you and other nikkas he probably don't care about any other time because he dislikes kobe
Oh and wear a nappy Afro in high school like Kobe

Losing a 3-1 lead is a good thing now? Funny, when Tmac lost a 3-1 lead to the pistons, Kobestans were the first to jump down his throat for it.

There was never a more embarrassing series than Kobe in 2004 against Detroit. Except maybe Kobe in 2008. The lakers were the favorites to win and lost badly. While Lebron was supposed to lose to the warriors and won.

 

[Jordan>>LeFrozen]

Losing a 3-1 lead is a good thing now? Funny, when Tmac lost a 3-1 lead to the pistons, Kobestans were the first to jump down his throat for it.

There was never a more embarrassing series than Kobe in 2004 against Detroit. Except maybe Kobe in 2008. The lakers were the favorites to win and lost badly. While Lebron was supposed to lose to the warriors and won.

I never cared about tmac. Nothing more embarrassing than creating so much chaos just to leave your team Togo to another team for a chance to go to the finals and then choke away as the greatest player in the world in your prime and be un clutch.
Who got made fun of worst over the years? Lebron or Kobe?who did people criticize the worst? Who did everyone call a front runner and laughed at? Who everyone called a quitter? I bet you won't answers this truthfully hoe nikka im laughing at you.
You will never win which is evident by your rep compared to mines
The LeBron James 4th-quarter experience

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Jun 11, 2011

By now, you've probably heard about LeBron James' disappearing act in the fourth quarter during the Finals. In today's age of uber-comprehensive media coverage, there's not just one way to capture how little James has contributed in the final frame.
The LeBron James 4th-quarter experience

In an annual survey of NBA general managers, Kobe Bryant was selected in 2012 for the 10th consecutive season as the player they most wanted taking the shot with the game on the line

 

[IllmaticDelta]

that makes sense that kobe would score more against the shytTY ASS EAST




Doesn't change the fact that Kobe played in the WEST, and LeBron in the EAST,


LeBron played 52 games against Eastern Opponents
Kobe played 30 games against Eastern Opponents

easy to see how stats could get inflated playing inferior opponents more for your entire career

this never happened and kobe's number are worse against the east

 

[Goatpoacher]

I never cared about tmac. Nothing more embarrassing than creating so much chaos just to leave your team Togo to another team for a chance to go to the finals and then choke away as the greatest player in the world in your prime and be un clutch.
Who got made fun of worst over the years? Lebron or Kobe?who did people criticize the worst? Who did everyone call a front runner and laughed at? Who everyone called a quitter? I bet you won't answers this truthfully hoe nikka im laughing at you.
You will never win which is evident by your rep compared to mines
The LeBron James 4th-quarter experience

• Facebook
• Twitter
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• Email
• comment

Jun 11, 2011

By now, you've probably heard about LeBron James' disappearing act in the fourth quarter during the Finals. In today's age of uber-comprehensive media coverage, there's not just one way to capture how little James has contributed in the final frame.
The LeBron James 4th-quarter experience

Nope, Kobe in 2004 was far worse than Lebron in 2012. Also, @The Dankster has explained to you how Kobe is not that great historically at last second shots, and how Lebron is significantly better. So if you would still choose kobe over Lebron, that would be like a pregnant mother choosing to use heroin and fly on airplanes during the third trimester. Given that you exist, it's clear some mother's don't take medical advice seriously.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

The LeBron James 4th-quarter experience

• Facebook
• Twitter
• Pinterest
• Email
• comment

Jun 11, 2011

By now, you've probably heard about LeBron James' disappearing act in the fourth quarter during the Finals. In today's age of uber-comprehensive media coverage, there's not just one way to capture how little James has contributed in the final frame.
The LeBron James 4th-quarter experience

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lebron is more clutch than kobe

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take note of shot attempts and field goal% along with the all around game


4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points"

2010-11


2009-10


2008-09


2007-08

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Kobe and the Clutch Playoff Performance Myth (2011)

In my 25 plus years of following the NBA, one of the more fascinating phenomena to me has been the plight of those that I refer to as “Kobe Nation”. Now, I’m not referring to Kobe “fans” - Many of those are a dime a dozen, stuffing the All-Star ballot box, displaying their #24 jerseys during road games, and riding the Kobe-train as long as the Lakers remain on top. No, I’m talking about Kobe Nation – those who have repeatedly extolled the virtues of Kobe Bryant while partaking on a daily quest to defend his basketball legacy, game performances, and polarizing personality. They are his apostles, and their fervor rivals that of even the most religious of zealots. They respond to criticism, deserved or undeserved, with an inverse defiance that embodies the personality of their hero; the more you critique them, the more combative they will become, the less they will listen, and the more likely you will be called a “hater”. For every action, there is a reaction.

Earlier in the season, ESPN’s Henry Abbott questioned Bryant’s status as the most “clutch” player in the NBA, and as you can imagine, Kobe Nation responded with a fury. Specifically, Abbott defended his stance by citing the Game Winning/Game Tying Shot metric traditionally used by coaches and GMs when scouting opposing teams – shot attempts in the final 24 seconds of a game during which a player’s team is either tied or trails by three or fewer points. And during Kobe’s 15-year career (regular season and playoffs), the results showed that he made only 36 game winning/game tying shots while missing a stellar 79, or 36/115.

So why then is Kobe Bryant considered to be the unanimous first choice among GMs, coaches, and players for taking the game winning/game tying shot for all the marbles? Abbott cites the media’s propensity to exhaust the highlight reel, limitations of human memory, and our attraction to flashiness rather than substance as the primary reasons for why fans, coaches, players, and GMs are misguided]. In sum, people usually remember Bryant’s makes, which are undoubtedly spectacular in nature, but not his misses.

So where do I stand?

First a plea to Kobe Nation…. Allow me to go on record by stating that Kobe Bryant is one of the 10 greatest players to ever play the game. By the time he retires, he will likely be top 5. He is a phenomenal all-around player in every aspect of the game, and possesses a unique combination of talent and skill, that in my opinion, can only be rivaled by Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, LeBron James and Hakeem Olaujuwon. He also has a basketball IQ that is simply off the charts – a unique feel for the game that despite his numerous injuries, has allowed him to remain physically effective in a manner that is traditionally reserved for 20-somethings. Other than Michael Jordan, I have yet to see a player who displays the same level of ferocity, stubbornness, and will to win that Kobe Bryant does.

However, Henry Abbott is right. Kobe Bryant IS overrated in the clutch, and even more so when it comes to game winning/game tying shots. That’s right Kobe Nation, you heard me. In which universe does missing 79 out of 115 game winning/game tying shots constitute clutchness? Clutchness to me has always been defined basically and inherently. You either succeed and come through for your team, when your team needs you the most, or you don’t. And in 115 instances, during the time in which Bryant’s teams have needed him the most, he has succeeded only 36 times while failing 79 times. That’s a 31% success rate folks. It’s that simple.

We are not talking about a complex John Hollinger formula or algorithm. We are talking about a fairly straight forward metric – less than 24 seconds, time winding down, ball in Kobe’s hands, chance to win or tie, miss or make. All other variables are irrelevant:

- “Kobe is the most fearless”

- “Kobe wants the ball in his hands at the end of the game”

- “Kobe has the ability to make the most spectacular shots”

None of this matters. The only thing that matters is the result.

So that got me thinking – if the 36/115 stat includes both playoffs and regular season, how has Bryant performed in game winning and game tying shot situations during the playoffs alone? After all, playoff games are the ones that count the most, right? The pinnacle of pressure? The most important of time of the year when everything is at stake? Is there really a more clutch opportunity than a game winning/game tying shot in a playoff game?

The answer: Bryant is 7/25 or 28% -slightly worse during the playoffs than the regular season.

Keep in mind that the game winning/game tying shot is only ONE metric of clutch, and in a future article we will post additional data reviewing Kobe’s performance during the last 2 minutes, last 5 minutes, and the entire 4Q, which further substantiates my point. However, for now, we will focus on the game winning/game tying shot metric, which in my mind, represents the MOST pressure packed situations in a game.

Below is a breakdown of game winning/game tying shot attempt throughout Kobe Bryant’s 15 year career:

Kobe and the Clutch Playoff Performance Myth

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What model-dependent realism has to say about whether Kobe is clutch

Kobe isn't Clutch:

Despite all of his clutch fame, Kobe has had his skeptics. Most non-Laker fans hold this opinion. Some of this skepticism is based purely on hate, and other is based off of facts. Recently, ESPN analysts have criticized Kobe's numbers and how they deceive people in articles like this and this. What, exactly, makes Kobe so not clutch?

While Kobe has made a ton of clutch shots over his career, he has missed significantly more. Between 2000 and 2012, Kobe shot by far the highest number of attempts (230) in the final minute of games with a margin of five points or fewer for regular season games. Of those 230 attempts, he only made 80 of them. 80/230 puts him at a mediocre 34.8%, only slightly above the atrocious league average of 33.7%. This means that for every clutch basket that Kobe makes, he has 1.87 clutch misses. If those numbers are considered worthy of being considered one of the clutchest players of all time, Amar'e Stoudemire should be up there, as well. When your clutch numbers are worse than this guy, you probably should join a depression clinic before an all-clutch NBA team.

Regular season games are great and all, but the playoffs are the games that really matter. If you think Kobe's clutch numbers are better there, boy are you wrong. In the final minute of playoff games where the margin is within five points, Kobe has gone 10/31. That's 32.3%, which means that for every one amazing make Kobe has he has 2.09 bricks. Granted this playoff number comes in a small sample size; LeBron James (apparent, notable choke artist) has actually made the same number of clutch shots in the final minute of a playoff game as Kobe between 2000 and 2012 with 11 fewer attempts. That's not even including the plethora of clutch makes LeBron had against the Pacers and Spurs. Kobe's numbers are certainly not indicative of a player who shows up in big games.

As much of an offensive threat as Kobe is, one would expect that the Lakers would have a top-notch offense in crunch time of close games. To see a complete recap of just how bad Kobe and the Lakers' crunch time numbers are, you should check out Henry Abbott's Truehoop article posted a few years ago. One of the most stunning excerpts from this article is:

You'd expect Los Angeles to also have one of the league's best offenses in crunch time, right? Especially with the ball in the hands of the player most suited to those moments.

That's not what happens, though. In the final 24 seconds of close games the Lakers offense regresses horribly, managing just 82 points per 100 possessions...

The Lakers are not among the league leaders in crunch-time offense -- instead, they're just about average, scoring 82.35 points per 100 possessions in a league that averages 80.03. They are, however, among the league leaders in how much worse their offense declines in crunch time.

When Bryant is on the floor in crunch time, Bryant's Lakers are actually outscored by their opponents.

Kobe is said to be the clutchest player of all time, yet the Lakers' offensive numbers beg to differ

A Stephen Hawking theory & the Kobe clutch debate

 

[Jordan>>LeFrozen]

Nope, Kobe in 2004 was far worse than Lebron in 2012. Also, @The Dankster has explained to you how Kobe is not that great historically at last second shots, and how Lebron is significantly better. So if you would still choose kobe over Lebron, that would be like a pregnant mother choosing to use heroin and fly on airplanes during the third trimester. Given that you exist, it's clear some mother's don't take medical advice seriously.

Yea ok prove it and

For Kobe fans short on time or with ADD, here’s every game winner by Bryant in just 30 seconds. For Kobe fans who have 15 minutes to kill, here’s also a longer version showing 36 instances when the now 36 year old Kobe killed the mood of opposing teams and players who thought they had a victory over the Lakers.

In an annual survey of NBA general managers, Kobe Bryant was selected in 2012 for the 10th consecutive season as the player they most wanted taking the shot with the game on the line

 

[IllmaticDelta]

@<3Kobe


Kobe Bryant Elimination Game Averages:

22.3 PPG,

5.6 RPG,

3.7 APG,

1.2 SPG,

.6 BPG,

3.0 TOPG,

41.4 FG%,

27.5 3P%,

77.9 FT%


Straight up game 7's or 5's


21.4 PPG, 7.1 RPG, 5.1 APG, .9 SPG, 1.6 BPG, 2.0 TOPG, 39.5 FG%, 32.4 3P%, 70.2 FT%

-W/out Game 5’s
22.2 PPG, 8.0 RPG, 5.0 APG, 1.0 SPG, 1.3 BPG, 2.2 TOPG, 38.9 FG%, 35.8 3P%, 67.3 FT%



NBA Finals Shooting Numbers


Kobe


2000 NBA Finals – 36.7% FG

2001 NBA Finals – 41.5% FG

2002 NBA Finals – 51.4% FG

2004 NBA Finals – 38.1% FG

2008 NBA Finals – 40.5% FG

2009 NBA Finals – 43.0% FG

2010 NBA Finals – 40.5% FG,

KObe - 41 FG% finals career

 

[Goatpoacher]

Yea ok prove it and

Posting all of the game winner's Kobe missed would take up more time than your ADD would allow :jjjjj:

Didn't he have 3 airballs in the clutch just against the Jazz?

 

[Jordan>>LeFrozen]

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lebron is more clutch than kobe

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take note of shot attempts and field goal% along with the all around game


4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points"

2010-11


2009-10


2008-09


2007-08

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Kobe and the Clutch Playoff Performance Myth (2011)





Kobe and the Clutch Playoff Performance Myth

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What model-dependent realism has to say about whether Kobe is clutch




A Stephen Hawking theory & the Kobe clutch debate

"Clutch" since 2000 (click column header to sort)



Player FG FGA FG% 3PM 3PA 3P% Ast'd %Ast'd Best Worst
Kobe 606 1525 0.397 99 351 0.282 148 0.244 46% 32%
Pierce 450 1163 0.387 97 298 0.326 185 0.411 44% 21%
Dirk 443 1036 0.428 75 229 0.328 206 0.465 48% 37%
LeBron 461 1003 0.460 93 297 0.313 117 0.254 55% 37%
Vince 401 1001 0.401 67 217 0.309 159 0.397 50% 36%
R.Allen 371 0916 0.405 160 450 0.356 192 0.518 48% 34%
Terry 381 0870 0.438 108 285 0.379 164 0.430 55% 33%
KG 368 0848 0.434 8 36 0.222 212 0.576 65% 33%
Wade 321 0774 0.415 30 124 0.242 59 0.184 47% 32%
Duncan 376 0818 0.460 2 20 0.100 156 0.415 55% 36%
Nash 370 0806 0.459 125 314 0.398 65 0.176 56% 35%
A.Miller 269 0678 0.397 19 82 0.232 64 0.238 47% 26%
Billups 309 0796 0.388 120 367 0.327 110 0.356 46% 24%
Melo 276 0655 0.421 31 111 0.279 140 0.507 52% 38%
TMac 266 0714 0.373 44 164 0.268 89 0.335 42% 35%
Avg. 378 907

A Statistical Analysis Of Clutch NBA Shooters Since 2000


And no diss but as soon as I seen lebron being compared to Jordan In the clutch I skimmed the rest of your posts. No disrespect blood.

 

[Jordan>>LeFrozen]

Posting all of the game winner's Kobe missed would take up more time than your ADD would allow :jjjjj:

Didn't he have 3 airballs in the clutch just against the Jazz?

Didn't he make like 36 game winners after?

 

[Goatpoacher]

A Statistical Analysis Of Clutch NBA Shooters Since 2000


And no diss but as soon as I seen lebron being compared to Jordan In the clutch I skimmed the rest of your posts. No disrespect blood.

Did this retard really just post an article showing Kobe is below average in the clutch???

Goddamn you kobestans ...

 

[Goatpoacher]

Didn't he make like 36 game winners after?

How many attempts? Read your own article you fukking mongoloid.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

did you not read this? Posting a video will not change the statistical reality of kobe's terrible conversion rate in the clutch. What I bolded in blue is that ether



Kobe and the Clutch Playoff Performance Myth (2011)

In my 25 plus years of following the NBA, one of the more fascinating phenomena to me has been the plight of those that I refer to as “Kobe Nation”. Now, I’m not referring to Kobe “fans” - Many of those are a dime a dozen, stuffing the All-Star ballot box, displaying their #24 jerseys during road games, and riding the Kobe-train as long as the Lakers remain on top. No, I’m talking about Kobe Nation – those who have repeatedly extolled the virtues of Kobe Bryant while partaking on a daily quest to defend his basketball legacy, game performances, and polarizing personality. They are his apostles, and their fervor rivals that of even the most religious of zealots. They respond to criticism, deserved or undeserved, with an inverse defiance that embodies the personality of their hero; the more you critique them, the more combative they will become, the less they will listen, and the more likely you will be called a “hater”. For every action, there is a reaction.

Earlier in the season, ESPN’s Henry Abbott questioned Bryant’s status as the most “clutch” player in the NBA, and as you can imagine, Kobe Nation responded with a fury. Specifically, Abbott defended his stance by citing the Game Winning/Game Tying Shot metric traditionally used by coaches and GMs when scouting opposing teams – shot attempts in the final 24 seconds of a game during which a player’s team is either tied or trails by three or fewer points. And during Kobe’s 15-year career (regular season and playoffs), the results showed that he made only 36 game winning/game tying shots while missing a stellar 79, or 36/115.

So why then is Kobe Bryant considered to be the unanimous first choice among GMs, coaches, and players for taking the game winning/game tying shot for all the marbles? Abbott cites the media’s propensity to exhaust the highlight reel, limitations of human memory, and our attraction to flashiness rather than substance as the primary reasons for why fans, coaches, players, and GMs are misguided]. In sum, people usually remember Bryant’s makes, which are undoubtedly spectacular in nature, but not his misses.

So where do I stand?

First a plea to Kobe Nation…. Allow me to go on record by stating that Kobe Bryant is one of the 10 greatest players to ever play the game. By the time he retires, he will likely be top 5. He is a phenomenal all-around player in every aspect of the game, and possesses a unique combination of talent and skill, that in my opinion, can only be rivaled by Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, LeBron James and Hakeem Olaujuwon. He also has a basketball IQ that is simply off the charts – a unique feel for the game that despite his numerous injuries, has allowed him to remain physically effective in a manner that is traditionally reserved for 20-somethings. Other than Michael Jordan, I have yet to see a player who displays the same level of ferocity, stubbornness, and will to win that Kobe Bryant does.

However, Henry Abbott is right. Kobe Bryant IS overrated in the clutch, and even more so when it comes to game winning/game tying shots. That’s right Kobe Nation, you heard me. In which universe does missing 79 out of 115 game winning/game tying shots constitute clutchness? Clutchness to me has always been defined basically and inherently. You either succeed and come through for your team, when your team needs you the most, or you don’t. And in 115 instances, during the time in which Bryant’s teams have needed him the most, he has succeeded only 36 times while failing 79 times. That’s a 31% success rate folks. It’s that simple.

We are not talking about a complex John Hollinger formula or algorithm. We are talking about a fairly straight forward metric – less than 24 seconds, time winding down, ball in Kobe’s hands, chance to win or tie, miss or make. All other variables are irrelevant:

- “Kobe is the most fearless”

- “Kobe wants the ball in his hands at the end of the game”

- “Kobe has the ability to make the most spectacular shots”

None of this matters. The only thing that matters is the result.

So that got me thinking – if the 36/115 stat includes both playoffs and regular season, how has Bryant performed in game winning and game tying shot situations during the playoffs alone? After all, playoff games are the ones that count the most, right? The pinnacle of pressure? The most important of time of the year when everything is at stake? Is there really a more clutch opportunity than a game winning/game tying shot in a playoff game?

The answer: Bryant is 7/25 or 28% -slightly worse during the playoffs than the regular season.

Keep in mind that the game winning/game tying shot is only ONE metric of clutch, and in a future article we will post additional data reviewing Kobe’s performance during the last 2 minutes, last 5 minutes, and the entire 4Q, which further substantiates my point. However, for now, we will focus on the game winning/game tying shot metric, which in my mind, represents the MOST pressure packed situations in a game.

Below is a breakdown of game winning/game tying shot attempt throughout Kobe Bryant’s 15 year career:

Kobe and the Clutch Playoff Performance Myth

A Statistical Analysis Of Clutch NBA Shooters Since 2000

I posted that chart and it clearly shows Kobe as being inferior to lebron in the clutch

And no diss but as soon as I seen lebron being compared to Jordan In the clutch I skimmed the rest of your posts. No disrespect blood.

it showed just how much kobe isn't in lebrons or jordans league

 

[Jordan>>LeFrozen]

How many attempts? Read your own article you fukking mongoloid.

My nikka Kobe took shots when it mattered. Make or miss he took him and as Shaq said

and Shaquille O'Neal fouled out with 1:46 remaining in the fourth quarter. Bryant shot four air balls at the end of the game; the Jazz won 98–93 in overtime to eliminate the Lakers 4–1. He first whiffed a game-winning 2-point jump shot in the fourth quarter, and then misfired three three-point field goals in overtime, including two tying shots in the final minute.[39] O'Neal commented that [Bryant] was the only guy who had the guts at the time to take shots like that.