Why Students Take Forever To Graduate College

wheywhey

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http://www.theatlantic.com/educatio...come-students-take-longer-to-graduate/374221/


Why Do Low-Income Students Take Longer To Graduate?
By Janell Ross

The golden image of college students walking brick-paved paths to attend small classes in ivy-covered buildings hasn't matched the reality of higher education for a while now. Nearly half of U.S. college students commute to classes at open-enrollment community colleges and have never lived or studied in a dorm. Many of those students juggle family and other responsibilities between classes, work to cover living expenses and tuition, and don't have the credits to graduate after four years.

Yet when policymakers talk about boosting college graduation rates, they often seem to have an antiquated ideal of college in mind. A pair of studies released this month by the Campaign for College Opportunity found that accurate information about how students pursue college degrees and how long it takes them are two of the most critical but poorly understood aspects of higher education policy.

The studies examine student patterns at California's network of state universities and community colleges. Together these institutions make up the largest public higher-education system in the country, serve one of the nation's most diverse student bodies, and reflect patterns that have come to define the modern college experience in the United States.

The Campaign for College Opportunity. The campaign is a California-based nonprofit interested in boosting the share of students who attend college and keep the state economically competitive.

The campaign's reports depict graduation and enrollment trends in California in the 2011-2012 school year, but also closely reflect national student enrollment, graduation, and college cost trends, says Stan Jones, president of Complete College America, an organization doing similar work across the country.

"What we see in California is part of a pattern that's surprisingly consistent from state to state," says Jones. "Our picture of this 19-year-old going off to college is just not true. And students just aren't graduating in the numbers that we would like to see them graduate. It's all pretty different than the myth you see in the movies."

Across the country, just under 40 percent of all students earn a bachelor's degree in four years, Jones says. And less than 60 percent manage to do so after six, according to federal education data. Nearly half of all students—including the majority of black, Latino, and low-income students—attend community colleges. Only one-quarter of all U.S. students attend a four-year, residential college and graduate within four years, says Jones.

The Campaign for College Opportunity reports recommend a number of measures to boost graduation rates and reduce the time and money that individual students, their families, and government collectively spend on college. The recommendations include more explicit and frequent conversations with students and parents about the way that time spent in college and semesters spent in remedial classes can negatively affect graduation odds. The study suggests that students should only be required to take courses that bolster the types of math or writing skills that will support the kind of work they hope to do—meaning statistics, problem solving, and quantitative analysis rather than algebra and calculus for students who are not interested in science, medicine, or engineering. And those placed in remedial courses should participate in accelerated programs or those that simultaneously help students brush up on basic skills while also mastering new, college-level concepts in credit-granting courses.

The report also calls for a shift in on-campus academic advising that encourages students to enroll in a minimum of 15 credit hours each semester and developing clear and proscribed course pathways for all degree programs. Most "full-time" students in California and in schools across the country enroll in about 12 credit hours, the maximum grant and other low-cost federal financial aid programs will cover in a given semester. But that enrollment pattern automatically put students on a path to graduate in five years.

Students need to enroll in a minimum of 15 credit hours a semester to graduate inside of four years.
In stark contrast to the idea that college is a time for self-discovery and exploration, students need clear academic and career plans.


In California, about 80 percent of students took just 12 credit hours during the 2011-2012 school year, the reports found. State aid and higher fee structures at public colleges and universities make it possible for students to take up to 15 credit hours without a need for additional funding. In other states that is not the case.

Many students have been encouraged or even advised to do so because they will have to pay for anything more, borrow the funds to cover the costs, or find scholarships that will do so, says Siqueiros, with College Opportunity. In at least five states, colleges have committed to encouraging students to enroll in 15 credit hours, Jones says. Other states are experimenting with accelerated remedial education and laws requiring students to develop a degree plan after one year in school.

The drive to enroll students in more classes shouldn't be interpreted as license for students to roam freely through their schools' course catalogues, the reports suggest. In stark contrast to the idea that college is a time for self-discovery and exploration, both Siqueiros and Jones suggest that students need regular sessions with academic advisers, clear academic and career plans, and, preferably, course prescriptions that will get them there as quickly as possible.

That's part of the experience at many elite schools. Even at other colleges and universities, students enrolled in programs such as nursing and engineering where a distinct list of courses must be taken in a predetermined order, these students graduate at a higher rate than others, Jones says.

It's little wonder that so many students spend more than four years in college, says Richard Veder, an Ohio University economist who studies economic issues in American education. Four- and six-year graduation rate data is available because of a federal mandate, says Veder. But colleges have little to no interest in revealing what share of students never graduate, or how long it takes students to earn a degree with only the equivalent of 12-credit hours each semester. Worse still, many students don't understand the way that the system and culture at their school shapes graduation rates.

A few years ago, Vedder examined the cost of attending expensive, elite public and private institutions such as the University of Chicago and Northwestern University—where most students graduate in four years—to the cost of attending a community college in the Chicago area. When Vedder accounted for the additional time that students attending the community college spent in school, the cost savings nearly evaporated.

"It's incredibly complex, and—I suppose you could argue—potentially depressing," says Vedder. "It all certainly runs counter to our idea that everyone should go to college, and that every college is equal and good."
 

wheywhey

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Cliff Notes:

Why student don't graduate in 4 years
-They take non-credit remedial courses
-Full-timers only take 12 hours
-Federal loans and grants only pay for 12 hours
-They are undecided without a degree plan



I'm not a fan of community colleges except for random class or two or a certificate program. If a student wants to graduate in 4 years, they need to attend a college with a high graduation rate (80% or higher). Usually these are elite schools with big endowments and offer substantial financial aid. It only cost $6,000 a year to attend Harvard if your family income is $50,000 or less.

If you are a STEM major, only attend universities where you have the top 75% SAT/ACT scores. You can find that information at Collegapps.about.com.
 
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ExodusNirvana

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Me personally...I only took 15 hours my first year and a half...then in Spring of my Sophmore year I'm like WTF why am I doing this shyt? I was waking up dumb early for 8 AM classes and I'm like hold up...I get to choose my shyt...fukk this my day is not starting til 10:40 :smh:

I just took 12 and then took one or two courses during the summer sessions.

Chances are the summer sessions were easier anyways. I took Public Speaking one session and it was a breeze. Another season I took Macro Econ and that too was pretty simple.
 

wheywhey

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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...ollege-students-lack-federal-loan-access.html

Million Community College Students Lack Federal Loan Access

By Kelly Blessing Jul 15, 2014 2:36 PM MT

Almost a million community college students across the U.S. lack access to federal student loans because their schools don’t offer them.

California community colleges enroll more than a quarter of these students who don’t have the option to tap federal loans, according to a report released today by the Institute for College Access & Success. In 20 states, all community colleges take part in the loan program, while the remaining 30 states vary by institution, said the Oakland, California-based nonprofit group known as TICAS.

Almost 40 percent of U.S. undergraduates attend community colleges and more than 80 percent of full-time students need financial aid, according to TICAS, which focuses on college access and affordability. While tuition and fees are typically lower than that at four-year public universities, total costs average $15,000 and only about 2 percent have their needs met by grants, it said. Without U.S. government loan access, students are often driven to take out more expensive loans with fewer protections, such as private loans and through credit cards.

“Barring access to federal student loans doesn’t keep students from borrowing,” Debbie Cochrane, research director and lead author of the report, said in a statement. “It just keeps them from borrowing federal loans, which are the safest option.”

Loan Defaults

Schools that don’t participate often cite concerns about loan defaults, which can prevent them from having access to federal financial aid if the default rates are too high, the report said.

Only 4 percent of California community college student borrow under federal loan programs, Paige Dorr, a spokeswoman for the California Community Colleges Chancellor’s Office, said today in an e-mail. Structural weaknesses in the program limit a college’s ability to control which students can borrow, the amount they are eligible to take out and their repayment behavior after finishing school, she said.

“Our system is actively working to improve student access and success with several major initiatives,” Dorr said. “Until those efforts have a chance to work, for many of our students borrowing may not be the best option.”

Students from “underrepresented” minorities are disproportionately denied access to federal loans, TICAS said. Among all students attending the schools, 10.5 percent of Latinos, 12 percent of blacks and 20 percent of Native Americans lack loan access, compared with 7.5 percent of white and 4.5 percent of Asian-Pacific Islander students, it said.

“For those who need to borrow, federal student loans can make the difference between graduating and having to drop out,” Cochrane said.
 

newarkhiphop

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This article also doesn't take into account the horrible job that colleges do at advising those types of students and scheduling of classes , I was able to graduate in 4 yrs (2 at community 2 at state college) but that was only with careful selection of classes and taking winter summer session classes all 4 years, it always surprised me when I spoke with classmates how much bulllshyt classes they were taking all because an advisor told them to.

As far as the remedial clases I thought those were required if you tested low in the particular class before let you lvl clases
 

wheywhey

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Me personally...I only took 15 hours my first year and a half...then in Spring of my Sophmore year I'm like WTF why am I doing this shyt? I was waking up dumb early for 8 AM classes and I'm like hold up...I get to choose my shyt...fukk this my day is not starting til 10:40 :smh:

I just took 12 and then took one or two courses during the summer sessions.

Chances are the summer sessions were easier anyways. I took Public Speaking one session and it was a breeze. Another season I took Macro Econ and that too was pretty simple.

I'm a big fan of summer school. It's really good when it is a class you don't want to take. You get it over with quick.

I am also big on students placing out of courses with AP and CLEP exams. Many students self-teach themselves and don't take the actual course in high school. David Bahn got so many AP credits that he was able to graduate from the University of Virginia in 12 months with a double major in math and physics.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/19/AR2006091901779.html
 

wheywhey

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This article also doesn't take into account the horrible job that colleges do at advising those types of students and scheduling of classes , I was able to graduate in 4 yrs (2 at community 2 at state college) but that was only with careful selection of classes and taking winter summer session classes all 4 years, it always surprised me when I spoke with classmates how much bulllshyt classes they were taking all because an advisor told them to.

As far as the remedial clases I thought those were required if you tested low in the particular class before let you lvl clases

No it doesn't talk about advising. It vaguely says, "the system and culture at their school shapes graduation rates". I usually had random people advising me, other students or some non-counselor.

Remedial courses are mostly a community college con. I thought about going to community college for nursing but they told me that I need remedial English. Mind you I had already taken English at that school and gotten an A.

Back in 2010, the City College of San Francisco had 80% of students in remedial classes. 5 semesters of remedial English and 3 semesters of remedial math. I've also read similar about CCNY. If many of the same students were admitted to a good 4-year college, they would not be in remedial courses
 

wheywhey

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And universities aren't really set up to churn out grads in four years.:yeshrug:

Yep. It's not in the financial interest of the university to have everyone graduating on time. Many don't always offer the courses every semester that students need to graduate.

In Odessa, Tx, the University of Texas Permian Basin has a $10,000 program for certain majors. If you graduate on time in 4 years, your total tuition and fees will only be $10,000. The catch is you have to stay in University housing and UTPB is a commuter school.
 

Cloutius Maximus

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I go to a CC in Pasadena, CA which one of the better ones in the country. You take a test for math and english and if you do well, you don't have to take remedial shyt. Hell, the dude that teaches the remedial english class was my honors english teacher in HS. :russ:

I think one of the problems is a lot of blacks and latinos are first college students in their family, so their parents can't really help with the basics of filling out applications, deadlines, meeting with counselors, financial aid. You gotta be one of those go-getters who goes for that info yourself and it's hard if you're in an environment that doesn't support education and you don't even know your major yet.
 

BillBanneker

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Yep. It's not in the financial interest of the university to have everyone graduating on time. Many don't always offer the courses every semester that students need to graduate.

In Odessa, Tx, the University of Texas Permian Basin has a $10,000 program for certain majors. If you graduate on time in 4 years, your total tuition and fees will only be $10,000. The catch is you have to stay in University housing and UTPB is a commuter school.

Pretty much, for a lot of majors, a good amount of required courses are only offered once a year (depending what school you go to), and depending on your major (ie engineering) its pretty diffcult to graduate in four years without summer school or taking classes at a community colllege IMO. Most Universities IMO have conveniently stayed on the old school "philosophy" of a "well rounded student" (which means taking a bunch of gen ed classes that don't pertain to their major).
 
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