Why Tim Duncan is overrated and KG is underrated
- Thread starter UpAndComing
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They all played well with Garnett, which is why I mentioned them. Speaking of context of players...Robinson was
, TP was young and inconsistent up until the last few years (after 3 rings had already been won), and Manu is nice but he was never a superstar. The talent gap isn't as great as you are making it out to be.
Goatpoacher
Superstar
Manu was never a superstar, but he was possibly the 2005 finals MVP?
2003, Stephen Jackson didn't tear shyt up in the playoffs?
1999 Tim Duncan did not play with a top 50 player of all time at center?
Compare that to KG having 1 year with a decent team prior to going to Boston. KG up to two years ago was one of the most valuable defensive players in the league. Boston consistently overachieved in the playoffs. Nobody thought they'd make it to the FInals in 2010.
Minnesota was specifically and completely fukked over by the Joe Smith debacle. They were not capable of getting any talent around KG. His best long term sidekick was Wally Szerbiak.
KG never had teammates tears shyt up in the playoffs? I remember the Wolves beating the Lakers at the crib with the officials against them while KG sat on the bench. Hudson, Billups, Scerbiak, Brandon, Marbury all had strong playoff showings. 99 was the last year you can say Duncan had anything near a top 50 player all time in Robinson and he won. The Spurs didn't miss a beat after Robinson retired. Not gonna deny the less than stellar record of Minny's FO but Garnett wasn't out there all by himself either. Once again the talent gap wasn't that big. Coaching AND Duncan playing like a great big on both ends from jump were bigger factors than talent.
Goatpoacher
Superstar
Funny though, from 2008-2011, when KG had moderately better talent than Timmy, KG was making deep playoff runs while the Spurs were losing against "inferior" opponents. Duncan is the better player but KG is completely devalued by a lot of people. KG was never a post player, post defender. He was just as much of a freak as Lebron. He anchored the defense from a perimeter perspective. Looking at points per possession when he was in the game versus when he was out, it is remarkable how effective he remained until last year.
Duncan is easily the greatest power foward, but KG has to be in the top 5 range as well. He was a better defender than Barkeley, more flexible than Malone. Alot of people place Dirk over him but Dirk was never a fraction as good on the defensive end.
KG was never as good on the defensive end and offense outweighs defense. KG never proved he could carry a team home with his offense...Dirk did. KG gets plenty of love. As a 7 footer you should be playing post offense and defense...no excuse for that.
Goatpoacher
Superstar
The way I see it, KG's productivity on the offensive end was about 80 percent of Dirks. whereas Dirk's productivity on the defensive end was negative 200 percent of KG's.
And Dirk never played post defense, and really only became a post player late in his career. More importantly, his post offense is modeled on the michael jordan/ perimeter style. KG really played offense the exact same way, he just wasn't as good at it.
Finally, when i say KG anchored the defense from the perimeter, that doesn'tmean he was not a good help defender in the paint. It was his defense against perimeter players that always impressed me the most. COnsidering the way the NBA is perimeter oriented, a perimeter defender might be more valuable than a paint defender.
CACarot
Where is Princess Fajita
They all played well with Garnett, which is why I mentioned them. Speaking of context of players...Robinson was
You realize billups was in his TWO years with KG was about an 11ppg and 4ast. That is mario chamlbers numbers in this day and age. Marbury played with KG for two years , his rookie and sophmore year do you really put heavy value into those years especially when you consider marbury never won anything. You forget that Duncan played with ginobli , parker pretty much all his career. Kg has at best decent players for a year or 2 max. There is no cohesion built, Duncan had the same GOAT coach his whole career, KG had numerous coaches. You really downplaying TP and ginobli. There is a reason we know their name , and ginboli is a 6th man winner and could be a starter , or the fact that TP actually is a finals MVP. N1ggas really downplaying KG lack of talen with him, as someone said his long term running mate was wally sczerbiak. Duncan is a great player also had the greatest fortune of the stars falling into place for his career.
NBA wasn't perimeter oriented until recently. From the day Jordan retired until 08 you had to have Shaq or Duncan on your team to make the Finals. That said defending the basket will always be more important than defending the perimeter. That's the last line of defense. Great perimeter defense is often made/assisted by great post defense.
I cleary said Dirk wasn't a defensive player. He passed KG when he became that post player. KG was not a guy you could toss the ball to late in a close playoff game and say "take us home". Dirk did that numerous times. What good was KG's defense when Dirk put up Kareem numbers even before developing his post game? Dirk needed top notch role players to get his ring. KG needed prime Pierce and Allen and top notch role players to get his.
You do realize that Billups put up 22, 5, 6 in his last playoff series with Garnett? Duncan has been in SA for 18 years...we really gonna act like parts weren't moving all around him. He was the stabilizing consistent force. He won rings without Robinson. He won rings without Parker and Ginobli. Seriously cats forget TP was getting yanked in Finals games. You really hyping TP's early career up. He's grown into this player he wasn't always this guy. Once again Manu is nice but is he that much better than some of those guys KG played with. He's had his ups and downs too. I acknowledge that he as the superior org and coach. He also is the superior player.
Goatpoacher
Superstar
Yaknow, if Dirk played more defense he wouldn't need to score as much. And the Mavs were the only team that challenged the spurs this year. If Dirk had showed up, they likely would have won.
I saw Dirk get shut down by Stephen Jackson. Sure he developed an improved game around 2009 or so, but why would that rank him higher than KG? If we look at the totality of their careers, KG has been more valuable.
Also, this notion that you can ride players to carry you to a win in the 4th quarter? What gets ignored in those contexts is the fact that the team has to get defensive stops to be in a position to win anyway. That's how the 2004 pistons were able to win despite not having any player with Dirk's quality.
I cannot place 1 dimensional players over 2 dimensional players. I can't place Dirk over KG because Dirk's defense has been laughably bad. However, I will place Barkeley over Malone just because Malone was a bytch.
1. TIMMY
2. KG
3. Dirk
4. Barkeley
5. Malone.
fukk everybody I never watched play :JJ:
TheyCallMeAzul
All Star
So Duncan isn't a good defender? 
CACarot
Where is Princess Fajita
Parker's Playoff career averages are 19ppg 5ast and 3 in 150 plus playoff games and you going to bring up a 3 game playoff rampage billups and the T wolves went on.
Dirk turned a corner in 06 when he went to work on the Spurs in the post. He went out like a bytch in 07 but let's not act like KG hasn't had his share of weak moments as well. Two dimensional only wins out if the guys are close on offense. Dirk was far superior in pretty much every. There are way more role players than can come in and help you get stops then there are role players that can carry and offense when shyt is hot. What is valuable about getting knocked out in the first round every year?
Obviously not all his fault but you can't tell me about value when a team make one trip out of the first round in 12 years. All that said it is at least arguable between KG and Dirk. No argument between KG and Timothy.
No, i was alluding to the fact that he plays more like a PF than a C.So you're saying Tim Duncan style of play is the same as Chris Bosh?