Goatpoacher
Superstar
Not on Sohh/the Coli. They gave him the Lebron treatment for so long.
Why Tim Duncan is overrated and KG is underrated
- Thread starter UpAndComing
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Not on Sohh/the Coli. They gave him the Lebron treatment for so long.
KG isn't recognized as a great of his era on here?
Who else from his era is put over him on here that doesn't belong there?
fantabolous
smart usage of data plan
lmao, i dapped this just because of the blatant honesty
Goatpoacher
Superstar
KG isn't recognized as a great of his era on here?
I guess I could make a poll, but I have read unwarranted criticism about KG for years. Not a question of putting him over people, it's about people calling him a loser, a choker, an underachiever. Like I said, he got the LEbron treatment before Lebron. You tell me how Lebron gets the level of vitriol to this day. I remember KG getting about 70 percent of that vitriol.
Even Bron's most ardent hater acknowledges he's the best in the game. We are talking about how a player is rated not the level or criticism or hate even, that he receives. Nobody has ever denied his superstar status or his status in his generation.
Goatpoacher
Superstar
You sure? Have you read some posts by Cantstop or Zema? Also, have you need seen Lebron get blamed for the following:
1. Larry Brown losing in the Olympics
2. Cavs losing in 2007
3. the potential reboot of the POlice Academy franchise?
In the same way, KG was being blamed for everything by his detractors. KG was not responsible for the JOe Smith Bullshyt. Maybe he was at fault for having such a large contract, but teh wolves weren't signing anybody anyway.
In comparison to Timmy, I think KG provides about 80 percent of Timmy's value. By the rhetoric tossed on sohh back in the day, people made it sound like he was Vin Baker on a diet.
Some shyt is jokes. Some shyt is shameless attention whoring. Some shyt is genuine mental illness.
Point is generally speaking, especially among the cats who keep it real KG is not underrated.
SwagKingKong
All Star
He never show up with confidence to will his team in the 4th and that's the truth. Statistic isn't going to represent how timid he was in the closing minutes.
What? How else would we measure showing up, if not with statistics? How the fukk do you know if he had confidence or not? It's just a silly analysis, he was a great clutch performer by every measurement of it there is.
SwagKingKong
All Star
I thought that too until I watched him literally fall off in the 4th against LA in 2008. Nothing clutch about grabbing 3 boards and refusing to post in a game 7 of the NBA Finals in 2010. I acknowledged the advantages that Duncan has had. Problem is cats act like Duncan was out there rolling with J. Kidd and Kobe.TP and Manu have benefited WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more from playing with Tim than the other way around. Tim's starting backcourt in his first ring was Avery Johnson and Mario Elie.
You wanna talk about impact how about the Spurs getting dispatched 3-1 in round one the year after they won the title when Duncan was out? KG was great but I just can't see him going out there and going toe to toe with Shaq like Duncan did. The Spurs were an also ran and Pop was a nobody before Duncan got there. Can't deny what they have done however we can't minimize how big of part Tim played in what they have been able to do.
This just shows that you're using confirmation bias if anything. Garnett was Celtics leading clutch scorer during the whole playoffs, including the finals in 2008. He was also their leading rebounder in the clutch. The 2010 finals is another poor example considering that he was playing with a bad knee the whole year. Look at the way he bounced back in 2011 and 2012. You don't magically get better as you age, he was playing injured in 2010. He had zero lift.
And no, TP and Manu didn't benefit more from playing with TD. Both of them are elite players, especially Manu. This is a guy who lead Argentina to an olympic gold, with Scola as a 2nd option. Per minute, he's one of the best SGs of all-time.
I'm not trying to minimize Duncan, not at all. He's one of my favorite players of all-time. I just can't ignore objective statistics that shows that their impacts are basically the same over the years (KG higher peak, TD better longevity). I prefer KG, because he was a better defender and covered more space defensively, while spaced the floor offensively. Some people like the more traditional big man option, and if you want to build your team that way, you go with Duncan.
Tim had a bad knee for years and he never gave you 3 reb in an elimination game. He's never had any lift.
at using Olympic competition as support. Manu is nice but he's no Kobe or D. Wade. He's been good, really good. I wouldn't say elite. If he was truly elite we wouldn't have seen the constant triple teams on Tim and scoring droughts back in the day.KG was not a better post defender. More versatile? Yes. But not a better defensive anchor which is what big man are supposed to do for you. I can trust Duncan to match or even outplay Shaq. Could you say the same for KG?
SwagKingKong
All Star
Tim had a bad knee for years and he never gave you 3 reb in an elimination game. He's never had any lift.
KG was not a better post defender. More versatile? Yes. But not a better defensive anchor which is what big man are supposed to do for you. I can trust Duncan to match or even outplay Shaq. Could you say the same for KG?
Meh, Celtics were overachieving in the first place, just getting to a game 7 was incredible considering how hobbled KG was. I mean yes, he had a poor game. It happened to come in a game 7. Stuff happens. This doesn't prove anything. He has more dominant elimination games than not, so using one game as an example doesn't really prove anything. The fact that he was out of his prime kinda counts too, but whatever.
No, the olympics was just an example. Manu was already a star when he came into the league.. He had already been the italian league MVP consecutive seasons and won the euroleague and won the finals MVP. He's one of the best SGs you will find.. No, he's not as good as Kobe or Wade, but he's in the tier below.
No, KG was not a better post defender.. But is that really what you want your big man to do in a perimeter based league? Strong post defense is outdated and has been for most of the 00s up until now.. This is a pick-n-roll league, where defenders who can move side to side and cover space defensively are the best defenders there are.. and this is what KG excelled at. The reason people believe TD was a better defensive player is because he fits into the 90s view on great defensive players, where games had 50+ post ups per game.. this is not how the league has looked for several years now.. especially with teams playing zone defense.
I don't care if Duncan could outplay or match Shaq.. that's one player. Duncan fits better guarding him.. yeah, so? What exactly does this prove? Nothing. Individual defense is overrated anyway.. Its all about how much space you can cover and how you can carry a team defense.. which Garnett happens to be, arguably the GOAT.
Anyway, I'm just coming off as if I'm slighting Duncan, I'm not. He was great. I think he's a top 6-8 player of all-time and I have KG right there with him. Both are underrated IMO, altough KG is even more underrated because he didn't the team success Timmy had.
KG sure didn't look hobbled when he was making love to Antawn Jamison. No excuse for not abusing Pau in the post when it was sorely needed and having Kobe grab 5x as many boards as you in an elimination game.
You ignored my statement about Manu basically repeated your previous statement.
It's not just about defending post ups. It's about defending the basket. People still drive to the basket right? You are much better served having someone who can deter them.
I wasn't talking about Duncan defending Shaq I was talking about him going toe to toe with him offensively. That's a key reason they were able to beat the Lakers with Shaq and Kobe twice.
I'm not slighting KG. I am calling it how it is. The league is only perimeter oriented because big men are like dinosaurs. That said, outside of the Heat, you still gotta have a post presence on both ends to win.
SwagKingKong
All Star
Nah, KG was hobbled that whole season. He posted the 4th worst rebounding percentage of his career that year and the only years he rebounded worse was when he played SF during his first seasons with the Wolves. He hadn't fully recovered from the knee surgery he had the year before, when they had to shut him down for the 2nd half of the season and the playoffs. He hadn't played for half a year before the 2010 season.
Yeah, but the problem with that line of thinking is that KG himself is an elite rim protector. I'm not even sure TD is better at protecting the rim on drives. Garnett could recover more quickly and protect the rim on help defense. TD was excellent in his own right, but I'm not sure he was better than KG at this. And when you factor in how much space KG could cover defensively, and how he can anchor a zone defense and guard the pick-n-roll, it's pretty clear that he's the better overall defender. In the 90s, Duncan would probably have been better. Post ups was a major weapon during this time and teams literally posted up on every other possessions. This is not even close to the basketball that has been played for the last 10-15 years.
No, the key reason they ever beat LA was because how good San Antonio are. It has nothing with some bullshyt narrative about how TD could go toe to toe with anyone.
Stack Money
All Star
The Spurs had the third worst record in the league when Duncan got drafted though.
Errbody know the Spurs tanked like a muthafukka to get Duncan, and they had a all time great center which allowed Duncan to switch to PF and drop 30 and 10 on smaller players so yeah thats a perfect situation.Its a fact he a center playin PF the terrible argument is yall tryna deny that shyt, just cause he played PF his entire pro career don't make him a PF the same way cats say Westbrook ain't a PG even tho thats the position he plays. Yeah gettin served by Shaq and a significantly smaller KG don't scream center it screams he needs to be at PF in order to be effective while another 7 footer does what he should be doin so other big men won't punk him, he like a guy in hockey thats a scorer but ain't physical who needs enforcers out there wit him to hit the opposition and take hits for him. You basically sayin PF is his "spot" cause he can't do well at his true position of center the way he did in college cause like everyone says its alot tougher to beast in the NBA against real men.
Dirk was a choker his entire career, dude stayed bytchin up in the clutch havin great regular season records but goin home early in the postseason losin to 8 seeds as a 1 seed and shyt. Even in 06 he couldn't close the deal after bein up 2-0 on the Heat, only reason he got a ring is cause LeBron didn't show up in 2011.When he won without Robinson he had Parker and Ginobili, when he won without Parker and Ginobili he had Robinson. And now he has Leonard too.
Thats actually a knock on him tho since he a center but plays like a PF, just like Gasol a 7 foot center but his Thats cause KG ain't a center like Shaq the way Duncan is.
And Shaq dominated Duncan which is why he hid at PF most of the time and left Robinson Mohammed Rasho and Tiago to struggle wit the other teams big men, but he still had to deal wit KG who took his lunch money like Shaq did.
All that is nice but he saved his 3 reb performance for game 7 and once again refused to post up the likes of Pau and a equally hobbled Bynum.
KG became an elite rim protector and is no longer that. Duncan has been that from the jump and still is. KG no doubt had greater potential but actual production and impact is all Timmy. Last time I checked Tim has played this way in the last 10-15 years and experienced quite a bit of success posting up. It's how championship basketball has been played the last 10-15 years. Everybody falls in love with this run and gun perimeter based teams and the only one of these teams to actually win is Miami. Effectiveness >>>>>>>>>>>>trendiness.
Yeah you are right. Being able to match/outplay Shaq is no big deal. Just a bullshyt narrative.
