Will anyone surpass Hulk Hogan

[R=G]

How can you talk about "unseen heights" and not give the edge to Hogan.

Look at what wrestling was before Hogan. Do you think anyone in their WILDEST DREAMS could predict where the sport was headed? Tell me if there was ever time before Hogan where you had 33 million people watching a live wrestling match on tv.

The Rock was no doubt a huge star and I'm sure the WWF audience grew even more as a result of the Attitude era but the jump was nowhere near the size of the one made as a result of Hogan. The only reason Rock had that platform and that opportunity to be a star to begin with is because the wrestling business had already made it into the mainstream... and that wouldn't have happened without Hogan.

Hogan, Andre the Giant, and Vince got this to the next level. Hogan was already drawing in AWA but the marketing, the protection, and the era got all of that to the next level.

What was wrestling before Hogan? Bruno Sammartino, Andre, Buddy Rogers, Gorgeous George....and Bruno made serious fukking money for the business. He was a true star in the 60s. All of that was helped out by kayfabe being so protected. WM and Hogan are synonymous? Says you....no one was clamoring for a return but they went along with it. Nothing wrong with that. He makes a bland Mania look more interesting than without him.

33 million watching on television? Close circuit TV and there wasn't any huge ratings juggernauts back then to compete. That's the benefit of the doubt given to that era. They had fewer options and damn sure didn't turn the promoter from a millionaire to a billionaire. Rock on top ended the WCW charade..ended the ECW stuntman wrestling show that hicks resonated with. That's his influence.

People can treat that stuff fondly now but by the time Rock was on top, Hogan, Goldberg, Sting...none of them could touch his level. Guy got a fukking damn near 9.0 rating in 99 on Cable TV...that's fukking crazy.

Lol@saying the jump was nowhere near the size. I beg to differ. Why do u think Cena, Lesnar, Bret, Jericho, Taker, Hogan can come back to eat...u think all of this magic? David Blaine shyt? No. It's because Steve AUSTIN AND Rock breathed life into this product. All these guys u talk about with your cute topics and terms in that WWE Network thread are just eating off of the plate Rock and Austin fixed. Hogan too..he was MIA from 2000-2002....until he had a Rock match. Then he got more endorsements..then everyone all of a sudden everyone wanted a Austin match and shyt like that. Follow the leader. That's the nucleus of all that.

The only reason the Rock is who he is comes from a Jim Ross meeting in 97. Hogan and Bischoff tried to put the WWF out of business. Rock is a humble cat and he'll never bury Hogan but he damn sure is responsible for everything he's earned in his career. He owes no thanks to anyone unless he just wants to say it for his own entertainment.

Hulk Hogan is the man but no one has transcended pro wrestling like the Rock.

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

Hogan, Andre the Giant, and Vince got this to the next level. Hogan was already drawing in AWA but the marketing, the protection, and the era got all of that to the next level.

What was wrestling before Hogan? Bruno Sammartino, Andre, Buddy Rogers, Gorgeous George....and Bruno made serious fukking money for the business. He was a true star in the 60s. All of that was helped out by kayfabe being so protected. WM and Hogan are synonymous? Says you....no one was clamoring for a return but they went along with it. Nothing wrong with that. He makes a bland Mania look more interesting than without him.

33 million watching on television? Close circuit TV and there wasn't any huge ratings juggernauts back then to compete. That's the benefit of the doubt given to that era. They had fewer options and damn sure didn't turn the promoter from a millionaire to a billionaire. Rock on top ended the WCW charade..ended the ECW stuntman wrestling show that hicks resonated with. That's his influence.

People can treat that stuff fondly now but by the time Rock was on top, Hogan, Goldberg, Sting...none of them could touch his level. Guy got a fukking damn near 9.0 rating in 99 on Cable TV...that's fukking crazy.

Lol@saying the jump was nowhere near the size. I beg to differ. Why do u think Cena, Lesnar, Bret, Jericho, Taker, Hogan can come back to eat...u think all of this magic? David Blaine shyt? No. It's because Steve AUSTIN AND Rock breathed life into this product. All these guys u talk about with your cute topics and terms in that WWE Network thread are just eating off of the plate Rock and Austin fixed. Hogan too..he was MIA from 2000-2002....until he had a Rock match. Then he got more endorsements..then everyone all of a sudden everyone wanted a Austin match and shyt like that. Follow the leader. That's the nucleus of all that.

The only reason the Rock is who he is comes from a Jim Ross meeting in 97. Hogan and Bischoff tried to put the WWF out of business. Rock is a humble cat and he'll never bury Hogan but he damn sure is responsible for everything he's earned in his career. He owes no thanks to anyone unless he just wants to say it for his own entertainment.

Hulk Hogan is the man but no one has transcended pro wrestling like the Rock.

1.I suppose that's fair...but then you have to acknowledge how Hogan and Andre also transcended pro wrestling through their movie success. Let's not give The Rock credit for his movies and not Hogan/Andre.

2. WCW ended WCW more than The Rock did. WCW still had a lot of success during a good portion of the Rock's rise to popularity and near it's peak during the Wars.

3. Sure, by the time Rock was at his peak, Hogan/Goldberg/Sting etc weren't on his level. But you could make the same argument about Hogan and perhaps even Goldberg, that at his peak, very few were close to his level of popularity. I think there was a pretty substantial amount of time (at least a year and a half) in which Goldberg was just as popular as The Rock. What your saying is basically like talking stocks and saying that by the time (stock x) hit its peak (stock y) couldnt touch it, while pretty much ignoring the previous history of stock y.

4. Those guys can come back to eat in large part because of Vincent K. McMahon and WWE front offices, as well as Rock/SCSA (and the foundation that Hogan helped put down). Rock/SCSA breathed life into the WWE, but I think it's fair to say that if WCW won and was the last one standing, that these guys would have been able to eat with WCW too. It's not like WCW was opposed to signing WWE guys. You could say that Hall, Nash and Hogan's heel turn breathed life into the product too. The whole business began to heat up after that, and forced the WWE to modernize with their storyline's and gimmicks. Should we look at how The Rock was branded before and at the beginning of the NWO? He went over at Survivor Series 96 and was pushed to the moon with the IC belt and got "Die Rocky Die" chants as a face.

5. "In the months following the eventual demise of WCW in March 2001, Hogan underwent surgery on his knees in order for him to wrestle again. As a test, Hogan worked a match in Orlando, Florida for the Xcitement Wrestling Federation promotion run by his longtime handler Jimmy Hart. Hogan defeated Curt Hennig in this match and felt healthy enough to accept an offer to return to the WWF in February 2002."

The fans always clamored for those dream WCW vs WWE big name matches. They were pissed as fukk about no Goldberg vs Austin and they still want it NOW with Sting vs Undertaker. Hogan vs The Rock was so big because of Hogan just as much as The Rock. Hogan wouldn't have been cheered so damn much forcing a face turn if he wasn't still super over.

 

[Kill Dat Noize]

The only reason the Rock is who he is comes from a Jim Ross meeting in 97. Hogan and Bischoff tried to put the WWF out of business. Rock is a humble cat and he'll never bury Hogan but he damn sure is responsible for everything he's earned in his career. He owes no thanks to anyone unless he just wants to say it for his own entertainment.

Are you a Rock mark? Be honest. Cause if you're a Rock mark it's gonna be hard to argue logic with you.

So in other words everything Hogan accomplished was just handed to him on a silver platter and everything Rock did he did himself. Gotcha.

Rock owes as much to guys like Vince, Austin and Hogan as Hogan does to guys like Vince, Andre and Bruno.

 

[R=G]

Yeah but Rock headlined movies and drew in audiences. Did they go see Rocky 3 for Hogan? That's a naive belief..u can say that after the fact and after seeing the movie 100x but that wasn't the case. Rock is a headliner in every sense of the word..his movies out drew everyone last year. Not even a fair comparison.

I don't care what success WCW had during his rise..the booking wasn't 100 percent with Rock but when he got on top? Everybody got shut down. Booker and WCW were so impressed with the Rock..they were outright copying his booking and style in 2000. Hilarious. Pure influence. Flair and Steiner were doing promos acting like Rock was gonna be a surprise opponent instead of putting over their own product. Never seen anything like it. Had no intention of mentioning Hogan. They wanted to draw from that well like everyone else.

Oh yeah..Goldberg was much bigger than the Rock in 98. No question about it. Everyone used to talk about the Austin/Goldberg dream match. But once Rock got rolling in 99, Goldberg's entire sizzle was gone and Rock was the talk of the industry after Rumble 99. When it was time to do a show..another show..it wasn't Austin they marketed after, it was Rock. Same with the Smackdown video game line up.

If somehow the world turned on its collective ear and WCW won, of course Rock and Austin would of made it there.

In 1996, the WWF was outmolded and lost their luster. They were doing lame gimmicks still except for Austin and Pillman. They were still pushing Taker, Bret, and Michaels.That was failing. A botch. They smartened up by the beginning of 98. Went the whole way. Rock was miscast...not his fault. WWE'S fault. Much like Bryan being Gail' s boyfriend and dancing. They had niche, nothing happening ideas. Rock changed all that and definitely took a stranglehold of the WWF.

Hogan was cheered in that arena but did it draw like Rock did that year? Of course not. People latch on to that crowd reaction like a cheap slut surrounded by anyone with a lick of success. The Rock was bigger than all of that. Everything he touched that year made money. Hogan ate off of it but who didn't? Being over and being a draw are two different things. The Rock can get booed out any day of the week but he'll definitely be selling out every arena he enters nevertheless. He wins in the end.

 

[Kill Dat Noize]

You keep bringing up Rock's popularity outside of the ring and his re-surging movie career as if it speaks to his all time ranking in the world of pro wrestling.

Who gives a fukk.

Point blank his contribution to the growth of the sport doesn't match up to Hogan's.

 

[spoiled]

Are you a Rock mark? Be honest. Cause if you're a Rock mark it's gonna be hard to argue logic with you.

So in other words everything Hogan accomplished was just handed to him on a silver platter and everything Rock did he did himself. Gotcha.

Rock owes as much to guys like Vince, Austin and Hogan as Hogan does to guys like Vince, Andre and Bruno.

 

[Hulk Hogan]

Are you a Rock mark?

BE OBLIVIOUS TO WELL-KNOWN THINGS, BREHS!

 

[Nintendough]

Rock stans making asses of themselves on page 4

 

[TRIPLE M]

:Hogan: no other wrestler has got that,and i doubt it will ever happen again

 

[Tommy Fits]

Are you a Rock mark? Be honest. Cause if you're a Rock mark it's gonna be hard to argue logic with you.

So in other words everything Hogan accomplished was just handed to him on a silver platter and everything Rock did he did himself. Gotcha.

Rock owes as much to guys like Vince, Austin and Hogan as Hogan does to guys like Vince, Andre and Bruno.

You must be new around these parts, R=G = Rock=Greatness. A little about said poster, he is a virgin with aspergers that is also a b*stard child that doesn't know who his father is, thus he turned the Rock into a surrogate father...so yeah, you can say he's a Rock mark.

 

[DocZulu]

I have mad respect for Hogan, but Austin surpassed him in every meaningful way, except one: he wasn't the first Franchise superstar.

That matters.

Hogan is the father of Wrestlemania.

But Austin had better feuds, better matches and did more for the sport. WWE was left for dead, and he broke his neck bringing it back to life. We can argue whether or not the Rock is greater, but Austin's success elevated the entire company.

Hogan defined the sport, and Austin redefined it.

 

[spoiled]

I have mad respect for Hogan, but Austin surpassed him in every meaningful way, except one: he wasn't the first Franchise superstar.

That matters.

Hogan is the father of Wrestlemania.

But Austin had better feuds, better matches and did more for the sport. WWE was left for dead, and he broke his neck bringing it back to life. We can argue whether or not the Rock is greater, but Austin's success elevated the entire company.

Hogan defined the sport, and Austin redefined it.

How did Austin did more for the sport? It was Hogan who brought wrestling back to life in the 90s again with his heel turn. Hogan elevated the entire wrestling business, and after that Austin elevated WWF.

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

Yeah but Rock headlined movies and drew in audiences. Did they go see Rocky 3 for Hogan? That's a naive belief..u can say that after the fact and after seeing the movie 100x but that wasn't the case. Rock is a headliner in every sense of the word..his movies out drew everyone last year. Not even a fair comparison.

I don't care what success WCW had during his rise..the booking wasn't 100 percent with Rock but when he got on top? Everybody got shut down. Booker and WCW were so impressed with the Rock..they were outright copying his booking and style in 2000. Hilarious. Pure influence. Flair and Steiner were doing promos acting like Rock was gonna be a surprise opponent instead of putting over their own product. Never seen anything like it. Had no intention of mentioning Hogan. They wanted to draw from that well like everyone else.

Oh yeah..Goldberg was much bigger than the Rock in 98. No question about it. Everyone used to talk about the Austin/Goldberg dream match. But once Rock got rolling in 99, Goldberg's entire sizzle was gone and Rock was the talk of the industry after Rumble 99. When it was time to do a show..another show..it wasn't Austin they marketed after, it was Rock. Same with the Smackdown video game line up.

If somehow the world turned on its collective ear and WCW won, of course Rock and Austin would of made it there.

In 1996, the WWF was outmolded and lost their luster. They were doing lame gimmicks still except for Austin and Pillman. They were still pushing Taker, Bret, and Michaels.That was failing. A botch. They smartened up by the beginning of 98. Went the whole way. Rock was miscast...not his fault. WWE'S fault. Much like Bryan being Gail' s boyfriend and dancing. They had niche, nothing happening ideas. Rock changed all that and definitely took a stranglehold of the WWF.

Hogan was cheered in that arena but did it draw like Rock did that year? Of course not. People latch on to that crowd reaction like a cheap slut surrounded by anyone with a lick of success. The Rock was bigger than all of that. Everything he touched that year made money. Hogan ate off of it but who didn't? Being over and being a draw are two different things. The Rock can get booed out any day of the week but he'll definitely be selling out every arena he enters nevertheless. He wins in the end.

1. How many movies did Rock make during his full time wrestling career that drew and helped wrestling? He was in Mummy Returns briefly, and I don't think he was much of a draw to that movie..he headlined The Scorpion King which was a box office success but WWE ratings DROPPED since the release date of that movie compared to what it was before http://www.2xzone.com/ratings/rawhistory.shtml#.Uy-zFIXiJKM (April 2002). Fact is, Rock's wrestling helped Hollywood and his Hollywood career while Hulk's Hollywood spots helped wrestling. Im not going to sit here and act like people went to Rocky to see Hogan, obviously not. Andre's acting career is kinda hard to pinpoint just because he is such a transcendent figure in general so Im not even going to go into it in terms of impact on wrestling .

2. How is WCW's success during his rise not relevant? It show's that The Rock wasn't THE factor in the demise of WCW. And WCW trying to rip off The Rock is more evidence of their shytty booking and them killing themselves. Most of that non-sense is Russo. He had a fractured relationship with Hogan, was/is a terrible booker and was just garbage altogether. Bischoff fell off too. Them having success with the Rock being extremely popular shows they could have made it but were just dumb and couldn't sustain themselves. Not that the Rock's popularity made WCW unable to sustain itself. WCW's contract situations, as well as Russo/Bischoff deaded that shyt.

3. Sure. But Rock didnt make Goldberg fizzle out, and you especially can't say that if you are acknowledging the WWF using stale gimmicks and miscasting people before the nWo/Wars. WCW entered the phase of stale/stupid gimmicks and miscasting. They didn't know what to do with Goldberg to keep him going.

4. Im not disputing the Rock's success that year. Hogan obviously was a draw and over though. People were hype as fukk for that match before during and after and it isn't just because of the Rock. It's also because of what Hogan did for wrestling throughout his career and the excitement to see him back on the biggest stage. They wanted to see Hogan, they wanted to see Rock and they wanted to see the two wrestle each other. That's like Kobe vs MJ when they played each other...who's the GOAT though?

 

[El Cocodrilo]

I think as far as being a bigger star you can make a case for Rock cause he has multiple worldwide blockbusters under his belt and thats after being one of the top stars of the Attitude era.

As far as what someone means to Pro Wrestling, no one can touch Hogan. I put Austin in second place, Rock third and all the other greats like Flair, Macho, Andre, Sammartino in a debatable 4th.

But brehs! The question of this thread is will anyone surpass Hogan. I think so, sometime down the line. Its unlikely now but who knows what the business will be like 50 years from now and who will step forward.

 

[dh86]

Are you really lookin to have a discussion or are you just tryna argue, cause I'm not really sure how you took that away from my post. The pro wrestling audience increased in size exponentially after Hogan's initial rise to fame. That's all I was inferring, nothing more.

And as for people being under 25 not recognizing Hogan's greatness you must be huffin gas. None of us were alive to see Babe Ruth either but I bet you every single person here knows who he is and what he meant to baseball. If anything his legend grows with time. The same will happen with Hogan. As of right now he is the most pivotal superstar in the history of the sport.

I need proof that more people attended wrestling shows in 1988 than in 1978. "Exponential". The short answer to why wrestling went from regional to national is cable tv. Terry Bollea didn't create cable. According to your own criteria though, The Rock surpasses Hogan. Vince's company never made as much $, had as many weekly viewers, or had as high attendance as it did in 2000. Before or after.