murksiderock
Superstar
Man, what
-By 1997 Kareem was well into retirement, the all time scorer. Players’ legacy dont increase the further away from their playing days, it decreases. Ie people ready to put Steph curry on mt Rushmore. Ie when Kobe was in his heyday still playing a ton of people had the audacity to say he was better than Jordan. Now he’s fringe top 10.
-That reminds me —-the hell is the ‘what about Bean push’To his fans Kobe been goat status since title #5. To Kobe fans, he’s as close to Mike as 6 rings to 5. They don’t care about context (or, you know, SHAQ) so to them he’s always been there. And conversely, by non-biased sources he’s NEVER been there. You will never see a formal top 10 list with Kobe in the top 5 let alone top 3. That hasnt changed at all
-Back to Kareem—-how you type all that and not once mention Wilt and Kareem’s well chronicled beef/animosity
-Their opinions aren’t to be taken and etched in stone. Many times players’ opinions are biased by who they faced, and/or by who’s style they liked. Once again Kobe being a prime example. If we went by player opinion Kobe is the 2nd best to ever play the game
Kareem and Kobe are two cases where their reputation has increased with time, bruh...
We're not gonna pretend Kobe didn't get a bump in narrative and popular opinion when he retired, abd then another one when he passed. The recency of his passing has him dancing closer to Top 5 on lists the last two years than he was prior, and his retirement started the "What About Kobe" campaign---->he clearly has plenty of Stans who work in NBA Media who, post-retirement, started this very public outcry of why he isn't mentioned in GOAT talk...
He didn't retire that long ago, so it shouldn't be hard for people to remember this. Prior to his retirement, aside from Kobe superfans, he was not being mentioned as even arguably the greatest player ever, he was rarely appearing on any Rushmore/Top 5 list. And rightfully so, The Culture had it right, Kobe is not that high in the pecking order...
The Kobe narrative in popular opinion will gradually level off back to the mean as we get more separation from his passing. As of now though, his career is riding a higher romanticism than was there prior...
For Kareem, look, I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I do believe that Wilt's exclusion of Kareem may be attributable to their personal feud. I don't buy that Bill didn't list him "outta respect" for Wilt, what does Russell owe Wilt?
I didn't say their opinions were etched in stone, did I? I said their opinions, matched with my own anecdotal experience that isn't just mine, as other posters within this thread have attested to recollection of Kareem not rated so highly, matched with a premier basketball rag a quarter century ago ranking him behind players they now rate him ahead of---->I said these are things I weigh in the Kareem thing...
100% agree that player opinions are often dripping with bias and emotion...
This is hyperbolic and false as shyt and easily disproven...
People didn't "automatically" vault LeBron into the conversation based on awards and longevity, why do you nikkas say this shyt? When Bron won his second title he also had just run off a 4 MVP in 5 year stretch a decade into his career, his body of work thru 10 years is what got him into the conversation...
LeBron's success made people uncomfortable, hence you get the "What About Kareem", then "What About Kobe" campaigns. Too many fans are emotionally charged and can't remove their own bias, LeBron's success doesn't diminish what other All-Timers did, and it will be nice when yall stop viewing players in that light. LeBron's success only means that his entire body of work elevate him to a level higher than others--->and this was understood well before he got deep into his career, same way Mike and Magic and others were in the conversation well before retirement as well...
Longevity has never been a prerequisite to being an NBA GOAT, ever. It can be an enhancer when two guys are close and one guy held elite play longer, but it isn't a requirement of being considered an All-Timer and it never has been, thar ain't hoe the NBA has ever worked...
. Dude retired in 1997
