Wuhan lab staff were first victims of coronavirus, says US Government

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

No. The same people asking for answers are the same people who defunded organizations looking into the origins because they wouldn't form a conclusion before their investigation.

Do you realize how impossible it is to truly know if it leaked from a lab, despite all the circumstantial genetic, time-linked, geographic, evidence?

This is the key to epistemology and intelligence.

What you can prove and what you know.

I know a fair amount about viruses, and I don't know everything and everything I've talked to professionally, academically, and reviewed from people who I know that know what they're talking about, suggest that this is PROBABLY the case.

But you can never truly ever 100% know.

You've followed me for years talk about the gray area of intelligence matters. You know the inherent difficultly in this.

 

[Pressure]

Do you realize how impossible it is to truly know if it leaked from a lab, despite all the circumstantial genetic, time-linked, geographic, evidence?

This is the key to epistemology and intelligence.

What you can prove and what you know.

I know a fair amount about viruses, and I don't know everything and everything I've talked to professionally, academically, and reviewed from people who I know that know what they're talking about, suggest that this is PROBABLY the case.

But you can never truly ever 100% know.

You've followed me for years talk about the gray area of intelligence matters. You know the inherent difficultly in this.

Again, the issue here isn't about the difficulty. It's about to rush to a politicized conclusion and reject any narrative that doesn't fall in line.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Again, the issue here isn't about the difficulty. It's about to rush to a politicized conclusion and reject any narrative that doesn't fall in line.

Whats the rush, bruh?

This time last year, the USA had almost 2 months of top secret intelligence something was going on in China they were covering up and when you overlap all the evidence they knew more than they were telling the public.

 

[Pressure]

Whats the rush, bruh?

This time last year, the USA had almost 2 months of top secret intelligence something was going on in China they were covering up and when you overlap all the evidence they knew more than they were telling the public.

I'm not in a rush. You'll have to ask why Mike Pompeo on his last days in office is attempt to push through the story that this was the result of a Chinese military experiment gone bad.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

You're just making assumptions now and talking in circles.

Actually, I'm the one who is refusing to allow my political preferences to guide my assumptions.

Mike Pompeo, who this article is about, isn't interested in any of that. He's already reached his conclusion and is now merely trying to backfill information to further his narrative.

Unlike you apparently, my evaluation of truth isn't contingent on what is or isn't convenient to Mike Pompeo. His words are irrelevant to me - the possibility was already there.

If you were as well read on this information for a merely objective scientific perspective you wouldn't be entertaining this the way you are.

It's strange when someone who has done very little scientific research on an issue tries to lecture a far more experienced researcher on what that research says.


Here Are 5 Times Infectious Diseases Escaped From Laboratory Containment


A brief, terrifying history of viruses escaping from labs: 70s Chinese pandemic was a lab mistake | National Post

I've read both original papers and overview summaries on the research into Covid origins and I have yet to see anything which allows us to rule out a lab as being the source. Not "created" in the lab, that appears unlikely. But still potentially studied in a lab and accidentally released via the infection of workers.

 

[Jahbarri]

TO BE CLEAR...THIS WAS NOT MADE IN A LAB.

However, it escaped from a lab via researching it.

its not that hard to understand.

How TF would you KNOW

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

How TF would you KNOW

I don't have time to drop credentials every time yall ask some simple shyt we covered second year of college bruh.

 

[Jahbarri]

I don't have time to drop credentials every time yall ask some simple shyt we covered second year of college bruh.

Simple shyt should be easily explainable ! fukk outta here quit talking out your ASS

 

[Wiles]

I suggest for the moment believing virology professors more than both Trump and CCP.

This is the current scientific hypothesis:

Chinese propaganda

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Simple shyt should be easily explainable ! fukk outta here quit talking out your ASS

long story short, we don't have the ability to INVENT viruses.

we can manipulate certain characteristics via something serial passage or try to invoke with certain attributes but even all the mutations aren't always known or predictable.

i.e. theres new strains of COVID we aren't aware of still.

 

[Gains]

Because the people making this argument aren't saying it's accidental and looking to attribute the blame away from their own failed response.








Imagine condemning someone for evidence you made up.

the same people that claimed the virus was a hoax

 

[barese]

I've read both original papers and overview summaries on the research into Covid origins and I have yet to see anything which allows us to rule out a lab as being the source. Not "created" in the lab, that appears unlikely. But still potentially studied in a lab and accidentally released via the infection of workers.

I believe you should include three parameters in your hypothesis:
- high Reproduction number (higher than the Spanish flu)
- high exponential growth connected to such R0
- aerosol transmission.

I fail to see how the virus with such characteristics can arrive to the lab in the first place without causing numerous hotspots, to be able to escape from the lab afterwards.
Any natural occurrence would be followed by different hotspots before arriving to the lab.


Spillovers typically occur when humans invade wildlife and get in touch with its viruses. Virologists have been warning about this possibility for a while...

Bats, Coronaviruses, and Deforestation: Toward the Emergence of Novel Infectious Diseases?


If the virus is natural, the spillover might have happened even in the lab itself, true (is this your hypothesis) but it is more probable in the wild, considering the number of contacts with the current deforestation...







An enormous problem for our future is the continued deforestation that will probably increase the pandemics rate in the future. We can secure the labs as much as we want, but it will probably not protect us if we continue to ruin the wildlife at this rate.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

I believe you should include three parameters in your hypothesis:
- high Reproduction number (higher than the Spanish flu)
- high exponential growth connected to such R0
- aerosol transmission.

I fail to see how the virus with such characteristics can arrive to the lab in the first place without causing numerous hotspots, to be able to escape from the lab afterwards.
Any natural occurrence would be followed by different hotspots before arriving to the lab.


Spillovers typically occur when humans invade wildlife and get in touch with its viruses. Virologists have been warning about this possibility for a while...

Bats, Coronaviruses, and Deforestation: Toward the Emergence of Novel Infectious Diseases?

If the virus is natural, the spillover might have happened even in the lab itself, true (is this your hypothesis) but it is more probable in the wild, considering the number of contacts with the current deforestation...

The caveat is that the original version of the virus in its normal host probably doesn't transmit to humans or at least doesn't transmit to humans well. There likely was some spontaneous mutation or potentially gene-swapping in host transfer (such as the theory of a bat coronavirus infecting a pangolin and taking on an RNA segment from a pangolin coronavirus) that led to the high reproduction capacity in humans.

Let's say the Wuhan lab, while sampling for wild coronaviruses in animal populations, happened to sample this one soon after the mutation. Or perhaps they sampled it before the mutation and the virus mutated spontaneously while it was being studied in the lab. Or even this......what if the virus that escaped in the lab wasn't even that contagious, but it mutated AFTER getting in the system of the lab workers, or even later? What if the virus in Wuhan was contagious enough to jump to lab workers, but only spread very slowly in Wuhan for a couple months after that before mutating in December into the virulent version that then spread across the world?

Any of those three scenarios is possible and would explain why the virus hadn't already appeared in humans earlier.

An enormous problem for our future is the continued deforestation that will probably increase the pandemics rate in the future. We can secure the labs as much as we want, but it will probably not protect us if we continue to ruin the wildlife at this rate.

Yup, as I've said before, The Coming Plague predicted all this way back in the 1990s. We've been playing with fire.

 

[barese]

The caveat is that the original version of the virus in its normal host probably doesn't transmit to humans or at least doesn't transmit to humans well. There likely was some spontaneous mutation or potentially gene-swapping in host transfer (such as the theory of a bat coronavirus infecting a pangolin and taking on an RNA segment from a pangolin coronavirus) that led to the high reproduction capacity in humans.

Let's say the Wuhan lab, while sampling for wild coronaviruses in animal populations, happened to sample this one soon after the mutation. Or perhaps they sampled it before the mutation and the virus mutated spontaneously while it was being studied in the lab. Or even this......what if the virus that escaped in the lab wasn't even that contagious, but it mutated AFTER getting in the system of the lab workers, or even later? What if the virus in Wuhan was contagious enough to jump to lab workers, but only spread very slowly in Wuhan for a couple months after that before mutating in December into the virulent version that then spread across the world?

Any of those three scenarios is possible and would explain why the virus hadn't already appeared in humans earlier.
.

Sorry for not answering sooner, these were interesting days in Italy, too... We had a government almost falling in the middle of the pandemics...




Just in the first case for sampling animals usually there are not only lab personnel on expeditions...

All your cases are possible indeed, but having one of the evolution lottery mutations happen exactly in the lab does not seem that probable...









In all these hypotheses, the fact that the earliest confirmed case was now traced to a dermatological sample in Italy from November 2019 should also be taken into account. Lombardy had a lot of strange pneumonia cases the last winter, too.
My son's slightly obese teacher was hospitalized for example in November 2019 for pneumonia, and a covid antibody test in July 2020 found nothing, but maybe 8 months later test was too late...
Lombardy had the virus circulating for months, and the question now is why it went unnoticed. The regional right-wing governments privatized and cut the healthcare system (and specially primary care) in the last few decades... Or maybe our doctors didn't even think of new possible deseases in Europe, while the local remaining mountains constantly get invaded.
For all we know with all the global movements the virus might have originated here or wherever, maybe in Manaus, Brazil...

In the west we were convinced that third world pandemics can't touch us, and that new deseases don't happen here...