So who is looking to sign up for "Obamacare" in about 2 weeks?

Richard Wright

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The transition will come in two ways: states creating their own single payer systems, and through the exchange market. Allowing anyone to purchase Medicare would completely transform the market and force private insurance companies to lower their prices even more to compete with Medicare.

Exchanges+Medicaid expansion are really the first step. Medicare for all is the second. It's not going to happen for a few more election cycles though, based on how many democrats are in the pocket of insurance companies. Medicare for all would be the beginning of the end of private insurance in the United States. It's going to happen in our lifetime.

Medicare for all is what I have wanted, but I feel as if once the insurance companies have everyone signed up were gonna start seeing a propaganda/lobbying campaign to prevent the expansion of medicare.

2014/2016/2018 might just decide the future of health care
 

Yapdatfool

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The transition will come in two ways: states creating their own single payer systems, and through the exchange market. Allowing anyone to purchase Medicare would completely transform the market and force private insurance companies to lower their prices even more to compete with Medicare.

Exchanges+Medicaid expansion are really the first step. Medicare for all is the second. It's not going to happen for a few more election cycles though, based on how many democrats are in the pocket of insurance companies. Medicare for all would be the beginning of the end of private insurance in the United States. It's going to happen in our lifetime.

I would guess allowing anyone to buy insurance from a different state would have a similar result?
Either way, as good and well as that sounds, our lifetime will result in repealing then reinstating obamacare over and over again. We'll find out that ALL the dems are puppets for private insurance and other entities that want things the way they are. Re-pubs too.
 

Piff Perkins

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I would guess allowing anyone to buy insurance from a different state would have a similar result?
Either way, as good and well as that sounds, our lifetime will result in repealing then reinstating obamacare over and over again. We'll find out that ALL the dems are puppets for private insurance and other entities that want things the way they are. Re-pubs too.

It'll never be repealed. That's why republicans went insane with the shutdown fiasco: it was their last shot at ending the law, and they failed as everyone knew they would. More than 10mil people now have insurance due to the law's provisions, nobody is going to successfully argue to take those benefits away.

However republicans can sabotage the law in their states, which is what's happening now (especially Texas and NC).
 

Richard Wright

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It'll never be repealed. That's why republicans went insane with the shutdown fiasco: it was their last shot at ending the law, and they failed as everyone knew they would. More than 10mil people now have insurance due to the law's provisions, nobody is going to successfully argue to take those benefits away.

However republicans can sabotage the law in their states, which is what's happening now (especially Texas and NC).

How do you feel about the head of the HHS and Obama's comments dismissing the single payer?
 

tru_m.a.c

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Because it also allows for states to experiment with their own single payer plans if they so choose. Right now places like Vermont are finding out that it's more costly and harder to do than they expected. Also, it will provide valuable data. One of the proposals at the time was to extend medicaid and medicare to the the late 40s to 50s crowd (the group just outside of the range) for 10 years and study that data as means of determining costs. From there a single payer plan would be derived. But of course the lobbyists beat that back. Regardless, if all this information from exchanges can be analyzed, then you'll be in a better position to transition to a single payer plan and you would have a better idea of potential costs so you'll know how to ration things (because all healthcare systems partake in rationing).

to be fair, Vermont had no intentions on waiting for the ACA to implement a single payer system….they just needed the committed funding from the government

for anyone interested…. http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/up-f...adian-style-healthcare-work-vermont-sanghavi#

Can Canadian-Style Healthcare Work in America? Vermont Thinks So.


nurse005_16x9.jpg

While the Affordable Care Act, or Obamacare, has been criticized by its opposition as “socialized medicine,” it relies heavily on private health insurance. On the other end of the political spectrum is the idea that a government-run single payer system, similar to Canada’s, is the best way to deliver health care. (This is sometimes shorthanded in the U.S. as “Medicare for All.”) However, this system has been believed politically impossible here—until now. In May 2011, Governor Pete Shumlin of Vermont signed into law “An Act Relating To A Universal And Unified Health System,” House Bill 202 (HB 202), establishing a single payer health care system beginning in 2017. In passing this legislation, Vermont has become a closely watched laboratory for health reform.

What are the pros and cons of a “single-payer” system?
In general, single payer health care means that all medical bills are paid out of a single government-run pool of money. Under this system, all providers are paid at the same rate, and citizens receive the same health benefits, regardless of their ability to pay.

There are a number of proposed benefits to a single payer system. Currently, providers must follow different procedures with each of many insurance companies to get paid, creating an enormous amount of administrative work. Under a single payer system, providers might reap significant savings from reduced administrative expenses, and be able to focus more on delivering care. As with Medicare, a single payer system may also give the state stronger leverage to negotiate lower rates for drugs, medical devices, payments to providers and other expenses, resulting in lower overall costs. Additionally, a single payer system provides universal access to health insurance, which eliminates the problem of the uninsured.

22%20can%20canadian%20style%20healthcare%20work%20chart%201.JPG


However, Vermont’s innovative proposal still leaves room for further improvement. Specifically, a single payer system alone does not address “fee-for-service” reimbursement for providers, which may encourage overuse and does not recognize quality and value. Other concerns also exist. Generally, private insurance rates have been substantially higher than Medicare rates, and providers worry that universal rate setting may lead to overall lower revenues. Others have worried that Vermont does not have enough doctors, and an influx of newly insured citizens may result in longer wait times and inability to access health care when necessary.
 

tru_m.a.c

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I would guess allowing anyone to buy insurance from a different state would have a similar result?
Either way, as good and well as that sounds, our lifetime will result in repealing then reinstating obamacare over and over again. We'll find out that ALL the dems are puppets for private insurance and other entities that want things the way they are. Re-pubs too.

As I tell everyone in real life, worry about your state politics and watch the theatrical events called national politics

when your state doesn't expand medicaid coverage, blame your constituents first…if you want single payer, and there is no support throughout the state for it, blame your constituents
 

tru_m.a.c

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Medicare for all is what I have wanted, but I feel as if once the insurance companies have everyone signed up were gonna start seeing a propaganda/lobbying campaign to prevent the expansion of medicare.

2014/2016/2018 might just decide the future of health care

people really need to understand this….insurance companies are not the only one's with skin in the game

payors
providers
pharma
businesses
political ideology of local constituents

The transition will come in two ways: states creating their own single payer systems, and through the exchange market. Allowing anyone to purchase Medicare would completely transform the market and force private insurance companies to lower their prices even more to compete with Medicare.

Yes and no. It's not that clear cut. Everyone keeps saying it's all about forcing insurance companies to lower their premiums, without realizing that providers receive reimbursement from these services. If you're a citizen with a serious beef about the premium you're paying, you should really be invested in the Medical Loss Ratio.

The name of the game is really reimbursement. This is one reason why medicaid patients have such a hard time finding healthcare. Providers do NOT want new Medicaid patients. (which is why I laughed at that article Dead7 put up). This is a fact that no one outside of healthcare understands. It's also a fact that no one inside of healthcare is willing to admit on the national stage.

Providers are always at odds with government reimbursement whether its medicare or medicaid. The same government reimbursement rates that would be at the forefront with a single payer system.
 

Piff Perkins

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people really need to understand this….insurance companies are not the only one's with skin in the game

payors
providers
pharma
businesses
political ideology of local constituents



Yes and no. It's not that clear cut. Everyone keeps saying it's all about forcing insurance companies to lower their premiums, without realizing that providers receive reimbursement from these services. If you're a citizen with a serious beef about the premium you're paying, you should really be invested in the Medical Loss Ratio.

The name of the game is really reimbursement. This is one reason why medicaid patients have such a hard time finding healthcare. Providers do NOT want new Medicaid patients. (which is why I laughed at that article Dead7 put up). This is a fact that no one outside of healthcare understands. It's also a fact that no one inside of healthcare is willing to admit on the national stage.

Providers are always at odds with government reimbursement whether its medicare or medicaid. The same government reimbursement rates that would be at the forefront with a single payer system.

Interestingly, Medicaid reimbursement rates were increased under Obamacare across the board - medical and even dental. So the patients are more desirable than they were previously, but overall I agree with your points.
 

No1

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@tru_m.a.c Vermont is finding that this stuff is more costly than they thought. I wonder how they'll pull it off.
 

tru_m.a.c

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Interestingly, Medicaid reimbursement rates were increased under Obamacare across the board - medical and even dental. So the patients are more desirable than they were previously, but overall I agree with your points.

yeah I mean I've sat in on some arguments…its a legitimate debate.

Unfortunately, that debate happens behind closed doors. And what we see at the national stage is just finger pointing.

The issue with the national debate, is that many people take the ACA law as the end all be all. No.

Funds from the ARRA influenced the law. Funds from HITECH influenced the law. The national electorate needs to understand that a COMPLETE overhaul of the education system as well as the health care system needs to take place if they want to see true value in their quality of care.

Nursing shortages. Physician shortages. Poor access to care. Etc Etc Etc

There are a lot of things people just aren't willing to take the time and learn about. And sadly, many of these things are issues that go on their state floors for vote.

All of the issues have been watered down to Obama vs Republicans vs Insurance companies
 

tru_m.a.c

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@tru_m.a.c Vermont is finding that this stuff is more costly than they thought. I wonder how they'll pull it off.

I think they'll make it work as long as another economic downturn doesn't take place

It's all speculation until we see what financing plans are up for vote! That's when the real showdown begins.

Not to mention, if they receive some cost savings between now and 2017, they can use that to deal with the cost burden
 

Yapdatfool

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